Rental at 333 Park Avenue South

@MMSDD9064
Thank you for the note. I was so close to blindly making an offer as it seems like a great loft space. It seems absolutely unacceptable that the landlord is not addressing the issues. It's a clear violation of tenant laws.

Looking at sales records, I couldn't find any record of a previous sale for 4F. I wonder if these are still owned by the sponsor. If so, clearly a negligent one.

All old steam heat pipe make a noice in original loft buildings. That is not a problem easily fixable. I would think moth and mosquito can be easily fixed by a tenant or landlord for less than $150 using an exterminator.

Most water hammer is reasonably easily fixable if someone understands 1 pipe steam heat. The problem is that most plumbers don't.

30, We have tried several experts plumbers and even changed the run of the pipes in some areas but there is still water hammer. We are told specials valves and modification costing $10k per apartment will be needed for the building to address it (radiator pitch re-alignment did not fix it either - it did improve). Virtually every one who lives in a loft build around 1900 has this issue to a varying degree.

I reckon the moth/mosquito problem - unless i's a serious structural endemic - can be more easily fixed, but presumably they've tried cheaper, <$1k options for the pipes. You can get used to traffic noise here but I don't know about harsh/loud banging pipes every day.

300_mercer,
Do you have 1 pipe steam or 2 pipe steam?

2 pipe, 1 pipe for supply and the other for return.

ok, that's why. 2 pipe is MUCH more complicated. The vast majority of steam heating systems are 1 pipe steam and much easier to fix water hammer issues.

Also, if I am remembering correctly 333 Park Ave S is a commercial coop and all the "Live/Work" units are kind of not legal.

30yrs,

Can you please explain commercial coops? What are the implications of renting (or probably more importantly, buying) these units, and what are the legal problems that could arise?

http://streeteasy.com/talk/discussion/35609-commercial-coops-vs-condo

That discussion isn't really about commercial coops. They are talking about commercial units in residential coops. under the law you can not assign shares to commercial units in residential coops unless they are units which could possibly be converted into residential units (most commonly these were professional spaces). This is the reason why you saw sponsors writing themselves 99 year "sweetheart" leases on the commercial spaces when they converted buildings to coops. These were outlawed around 1980, so instead sponsors started doing CondOp conversions (and I don't mean the misnomer often used today for a Coop with Condo Rules. The correct name for that is a Coop with Condo Rules, not a CondOp, which is where a building is devided into one or more commercial condominium units and one residential unit covering all the apartments in the building and then that condo unit is turned into a cooperative form of ownership).

A commercial coop is a building of all commercial units which is owned cooperatively the in the same manner as a residential coop, but without a lot of the tax benefits which are available solely to homeowners (and owners of qualifying residential coops).
In recent years the city has not appeared to crack down on illegally renovating and living in these units (in the same way that M1-5B/AIR hasn't been enforced) but there is no way of knowing what future bumps in the road may come along, like when the Loft Law changed.

Thanks 30 years. So what happens if you buy one of these units and the regulations change? Are you as a new owner on the hook for any loss in value? If so this building should be going for a huge discount, but looking at the 1 sales listing, that isn't the case. Banks may not be willing to offer mortgages either. Interesting building to say the least.

Yes, you would be on the hook for any lost value. This is a somewhat typical of what happens when the market gets hot - buildings which have various issues which make units all but unsalable in a down market or even moderate market end up selling for "minor discounts' when the market gets overheated and then when the market cools off people start noticing the defects again.