I have heard advice from several brokers/appraisers but wanted to get this board's take. My wife and I currently live in a 1100 square foot 2br/2bath that has an approximately 15 x 12 dining room adjacent to a tiny 10 x 6 kitchen that has an egress door thereby taking away even more space; frankly, it is just way too small to be useful and storage/counterspace is awful. We were thinking of taking... [more]
I have heard advice from several brokers/appraisers but wanted to get this board's take. My wife and I currently live in a 1100 square foot 2br/2bath that has an approximately 15 x 12 dining room adjacent to a tiny 10 x 6 kitchen that has an egress door thereby taking away even more space; frankly, it is just way too small to be useful and storage/counterspace is awful. We were thinking of taking the wall down and expanding the kitchen out into the dining room. The idea would be to expand storage/cabinetry and include a large island with seating, etc. My take and the take of everyone I have spoken to is that because dining rooms are rarely used, especially for an apartment this size and thus, that such a renovation is an excellent idea that will attract buyers. I know this is very broad, but from a valuation perspective, does this seem like a good idea as opposed to just taking the wall down, stealing a couple of feet from the dining room, renovating the kitchen and keeping a portion of the DR?
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Response by ph41
over 8 years ago
Posts: 3390
Member since: Feb 2008
Is there any way you could post your floor plan on this thread? People on this site are pretty creative and might come up with some good ideas
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Response by ph41
over 8 years ago
Posts: 3390
Member since: Feb 2008
Would the only dining option be on bar height chairs at the kitchen island?
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Response by Lz3
over 8 years ago
Posts: 75
Member since: Jul 2014
Hey ph, I don't think that I can do that . We are thinking of doing the island and a small banquette in the corner. The great thing about doing this is that the floor plan from kitchen to living room will be almost entirely open and separated only by french doors.
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Response by RealEstateNY
over 8 years ago
Posts: 772
Member since: Aug 2009
You have 2 bedrooms plus a huge dining room? Sound more like a 3 bedroom, which could warrant a higher price.
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Response by Primer05
over 8 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009
The first thing you should do is check with your building to see if they will let you expand your kitchen. As minor as it seems most buildings will consider that wet over dry and will not let you
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Response by 300_mercer
over 8 years ago
Posts: 10548
Member since: Feb 2007
If dining room can not be used as bedroom, opening is the way to go.
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Response by Lz3
over 8 years ago
Posts: 75
Member since: Jul 2014
Primer, we are not moving the sink or dishwasher and the refrigerator is likely only going to move about a foot or
so but will be angled differently. The stove is making the largest journey, about 6 feet. The rest will just be cabinetry and a dry island.
RENY, the layout wouldn't make that possible unfortunately!
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Response by Primer05
over 8 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009
LZ3,
Buildings do not care if you are actually moving the sink or dishwasher, it's all about the footprint.
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Response by jelj13
over 8 years ago
Posts: 821
Member since: Sep 2011
We took down a wall in a small galley kitchen with no counter space. It turns out you may need permission of the DOB to do this, even if it is not a load bearing wall.. See this url: https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/rules/1_RCNY_101-07.pdf.
It says: "Non-fire-rated and non-load-bearing wall, permanent removal in Group R occupancies. In Group R occupancies, where the cutting away and permanent removal of any portion of a non-load-bearing, non-fire-rated partition is limited to the lesser of 50% of a given wall surface or 45 square feet in area."
Our wall removal was under 40 square feet, so we could remove the wall without a permit. However, the Board required architectural drawings proving this.
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Response by Lz3
over 8 years ago
Posts: 75
Member since: Jul 2014
Primer, understood and I appreciate the input! The apartment above us got the thumbs up to install central air in various "dry" areas, installed a W/D over a dry area and completely changed the footprint of their unit (they bought next door and combined) so I am not too worried about this. Jelj13, thanks for the info! How big was your kitchen and did you expand it? What was the cost?
Primer, any interest in taking a look at this job?
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Response by Primer05
over 8 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009
Lz3,
Unfortunatly we can only take on larger scale projects. Buildings generally give combo units a lot more leway with wet over dry. I am not trying to convince you not to I would just make sure it is ok before you spend unnecessary money
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Response by falcogold1
over 8 years ago
Posts: 4159
Member since: Sep 2008
I did this. Combined a galley kitchen with a dinning room to make a big suburban kitchen. It's freaking amazing in everyday life. Who doesn't love hanging out in the kitchen. My daughter does homework as we cook dinner. We have friends over, hang out in the kitchen etc. At holiday time I miss not having a more formal dinning room. It's a bit of a down grade when you have to feed a big group a formal meal in the kitchen. Had I been a guy with greater resources I would have had both but alas this was not the case. There is not a day that goes by that the big kitchen doesn't make our lives many times better. I highly recommend the alteration, go for the full size, you'll only be sorry 4-5 days of the year. Additionally, beware of expensive German kitchens...they are a challenge despite their beauty.
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Response by Lz3
over 8 years ago
Posts: 75
Member since: Jul 2014
Hey Falcogold, thanks for the great feedback! That has been my wife's thinking all along! How much did that reno cost and who did you use? Thanks again!
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Is there any way you could post your floor plan on this thread? People on this site are pretty creative and might come up with some good ideas
Would the only dining option be on bar height chairs at the kitchen island?
Hey ph, I don't think that I can do that . We are thinking of doing the island and a small banquette in the corner. The great thing about doing this is that the floor plan from kitchen to living room will be almost entirely open and separated only by french doors.
You have 2 bedrooms plus a huge dining room? Sound more like a 3 bedroom, which could warrant a higher price.
The first thing you should do is check with your building to see if they will let you expand your kitchen. As minor as it seems most buildings will consider that wet over dry and will not let you
If dining room can not be used as bedroom, opening is the way to go.
Primer, we are not moving the sink or dishwasher and the refrigerator is likely only going to move about a foot or
so but will be angled differently. The stove is making the largest journey, about 6 feet. The rest will just be cabinetry and a dry island.
RENY, the layout wouldn't make that possible unfortunately!
LZ3,
Buildings do not care if you are actually moving the sink or dishwasher, it's all about the footprint.
We took down a wall in a small galley kitchen with no counter space. It turns out you may need permission of the DOB to do this, even if it is not a load bearing wall.. See this url: https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/rules/1_RCNY_101-07.pdf.
It says: "Non-fire-rated and non-load-bearing wall, permanent removal in Group R occupancies. In Group R occupancies, where the cutting away and permanent removal of any portion of a non-load-bearing, non-fire-rated partition is limited to the lesser of 50% of a given wall surface or 45 square feet in area."
Our wall removal was under 40 square feet, so we could remove the wall without a permit. However, the Board required architectural drawings proving this.
Primer, understood and I appreciate the input! The apartment above us got the thumbs up to install central air in various "dry" areas, installed a W/D over a dry area and completely changed the footprint of their unit (they bought next door and combined) so I am not too worried about this. Jelj13, thanks for the info! How big was your kitchen and did you expand it? What was the cost?
Primer, any interest in taking a look at this job?
Lz3,
Unfortunatly we can only take on larger scale projects. Buildings generally give combo units a lot more leway with wet over dry. I am not trying to convince you not to I would just make sure it is ok before you spend unnecessary money
I did this. Combined a galley kitchen with a dinning room to make a big suburban kitchen. It's freaking amazing in everyday life. Who doesn't love hanging out in the kitchen. My daughter does homework as we cook dinner. We have friends over, hang out in the kitchen etc. At holiday time I miss not having a more formal dinning room. It's a bit of a down grade when you have to feed a big group a formal meal in the kitchen. Had I been a guy with greater resources I would have had both but alas this was not the case. There is not a day that goes by that the big kitchen doesn't make our lives many times better. I highly recommend the alteration, go for the full size, you'll only be sorry 4-5 days of the year. Additionally, beware of expensive German kitchens...they are a challenge despite their beauty.
Hey Falcogold, thanks for the great feedback! That has been my wife's thinking all along! How much did that reno cost and who did you use? Thanks again!