Harlem or Roosevelt Island?

A co-op would be okay too, we just want the apartment to be move-in ready and the building to have amenities which typically leads us toward condos.

We just started a project on Roosevelt Island and I find it very easy to get to, the tram, subway or by car it is a very easy commute. Very little parking and not too many restaurants to choose from. A lot of parks and great views. I think to live in Harlem is also appealing, great restaurants, more of a feel for city living and up and coming. I would look into both places until you find your dream home

I wouldn't discount Harlem. It's gentrified a lot, especially on the west side, all the way up north. Above 100 st on west side you can't even tell it apart from the UWS. Have you tried walking? It's very safe as well.

Also, since it sounds like you guys are knew, I'd highly recommend doing some basic research into closing costs, whether you should have a buyer's agent, whether to get a broker commission rebate etc.

Are Roosevelt island buildings landlease? Something to keep in mind?

I don't know that you can really compare the two. Harlem is huge, with a lot of sub-neighborhoods/cultures/experiences. Roosevelt Island is pretty small. A lot of it will come down to a matter of preference.

realestate19, how much do you guys have saved for a downpayment? You realize that you should probably have 25-35% saved as a general rule of thumb, even if you're doing 20% down for the mortgage.

I feel like this is a surprise for way too many first time home buyers. Just google nyc closing costs at least before you go any further to see if you can afford this. If you can, congrats! But at least you won't have a nasty surprise at closing.

Also, if you're tight on cash, definitely get a buyer's broker commission rebate through someone like Hauseit. Good luck with your search and let us know how it goes! Do your research first!

There are just not that many buildings to buy into on Roosevelt Island (much of the housing stock I see in my broker database consists of rentals) but AFAIK, none of them are landlease. Rivercross at 531 Main is, like Southbridge Towers in Downtown Manhattan, a Mitchell-Lama that has exited the program.

ali r.

I remember reading that like BPC, city owns all the land in Roosevelt island and taxes are effectively a rent. I may be wrong. What do the experts on this board think?

@300, this link talks about a 99-year-lease starting in 1969. https://rioc.ny.gov/TramMod/history.htm

Front porch,

We just started a project for a client at 531 Street and just received drawings for another in the same building. It seems like you do get a good bang for your buck there. I heard that in some of these buildings there are restrictions on how much you can sell an apt for? Do you know anything about it?

Hi Primer! I had a friend who grew up on Roosevelt Island, back in the day, but I don't sell there (in my head it's functionally Western Queens, though I know it's technically Manhattan, and I'm sure the new science campus will make it more so).

So I don't know the details of the Rivercross conversion --- but I did find this old article from The Real Deal that talks about the WIRE buildings (Westview, Island House, Rivercross, and Eastwood.) I can't swear that it's still accurate -- I would need to read the offering plan to know.

https://therealdeal.com/2011/10/05/plan-for-rivercross-co-op-at-531-main-sreet-on-roosevelt-island-could-help-it-stay-affordable-even-as-it-exits-mitchell-lama-program/

The Roosevelt Island Operating Corporation is similar to the Battery Park City Authority.

We lived on Roosevelt Island before, moved to Harlem three years ago and now planning to go back to Roosevelt Island just because we need more space. Both Harlem and Roosevelt are beautiful in our experience. Harlem is changing a lot and we have experienced it very much in our time. Being close to the central park is PRICELESS! On the other hand, Roosevelt Island is just naturally beautiful. Especially if you have a baby and/or younger kids, Island beats Harlem.

Primer, what kind of contracts do you do? We almost got into a coop @ 531 very recently. Didn't work out in the end but if it did, we were also planning bunch of things, i.e. replacing kitchen cabinets, countertops, tiles in the bathrooms, etc. Just wanted to hear the background from you.

UU61,

Do you mean what kind of work do we do? We generally do full gut renovations of complete apartments but from time to time we will do smaller projects.
You can see my work:
www.primerenovationsnyc.com
https://www.instagram.com/primerenovations/

To me the biggest issue with Harlem is the schools aren't that good. The elementary school on RI is considered very good and there are lots of daycare options for smaller kids. So with a small child, I'd choose RI unless I was planning to send kid to private school anyway. I also think it's just more family friendly - not to say that Harlem isn't a good place to raise kids but because RI is basically a small town next door to Manhattan, you see young kids running around by themselves, running way ahead of parents, riding their bikes, etc., and it all feels much safer than if your kid did the same thing in a busier neighborhood.

Crime is also very low on RI. Lower than the UES and other low crime neighborhoods, in fact. I also think it will get "cooler" once the Cornell campus is operational and you can't beat proximity to midtown.

Downside with RI is that it's small and isolated - there's one Chinese restaurant, one pizza place, one Gristede's supermarket (though Fresh Direct delivers), etc. There's no hospital now that Coler-Goldwater closed so if you have an emergency, you're stuck waiting on an ambulance. There's an urgent care but it doesn't treat much. Also, transportation wise, although it's mostly fine, you do have to be prepared for the not infrequent train shut down on weekends and the fact that access is difficult during UN Assembly week. Finally, the feel will just be different - RI is very much "small town" whereas Harlem is much more "NYC," but given how close RI is to "NYC" this wouldn't be something that bothered me.

On balance, I think that with kids RI wins. Without kids, I'd rather be in Harlem.

Oh, and they are all landlease but landlease from the state/city which is different than landlease from a private LL - the city/state will not try to screw you on lease negotiations, so this isn't something to worry about. You do have to pay an additional fee though as a result - basically like a tax but imposed on coops; it's not a huge sum, but find out what it is before you commit.

The fee is called PILOT - Payment In Lieu Of Taxes. One of the downsides is that when there of various forms of tax relief like rebates and abatements they are often narrowly construed as relief from TAXES and since PILOT fees are not taxes they often get left out.

What Is the tax treatment of the PILOT 'fee'? The same as a municipal tax?

http://www.lorman.com/resources/irs-rules-that-developer-can-deduct-payments-in-lieu-of-taxes-pilots-15021

Thanks! Good educational info. One more detail to look into as part of due diligence for those types of property.

Anybody has any thoughts about 555 Main St - Island House @ Roosevelt Island? Any feedback about the building, management, etc is appreciated.

Anybody has any thoughts about 555 Main St - Island House @ Roosevelt Island? Any feedback about the building, management, etc is appreciated.

@UU61 - I think it's too soon to really know much about management because it's a new/recent Mitchell Llama conversion. You can look at the building next door (575?) which was converted first, but that's all pretty recent too. I'd find a lawyer who has some experience with these kinds of conversions and get a copy of the offering plan (I think they make you pay a deposit for it, but it's refundable). Also, keep in mind that with this kind of sponsor sale, you're also paying the transfer tax which is just under 2%.

thank you UES_Ida. We have had the attorney review the documents and he hasn't found anything alarming. Overall, the building looks ok, of course it needs some upgrades. Most bothering part (for us at least) is these windows a/c units and having no central a/c. On the other hand, sponsor upgraded units look fine and they have decent quality finishes.

@UU61 - We looked at the initial offerings in this complex and the one thing I recall was that the Sponsor would not be upgrading the hallways. The broker mentioned that they'd leave some money in the reserve fund so it'd be up to the coop owners down the road, but basically that read to me as a "don't expect it to happen." The hallways definitely had an East Berlin before the wall came down feel to them, but it didn't bother me too much. Prices have grown exponentially since we looked (Fall of 2015, when you could get a 2 bd 2 bath with city views for around $750K). The most alarming thing our lawyer found was that - as with all similar offerings - your maintenance can go up a fair amount before closing, depending on final costs of conversion. That was too much uncertainty for us, but I think we probably would have been happy had we bought.