325 Pacific

Because it's in district 15?

So you think the market in that area is going to tank over 40%?

It's overpriced so not making a general statement that the market will drop the same %. It's not a great block or nearby area. Small backyard. More for less elsewhere.

But you've got 3 close to exact comps which would indicate more like $7 million if there was no market drop so if not a huge market drop then what are you basing the number on?

It will be interesting to watch this listing as the taxes are not so low due to being new construction. Also, the finished below ground square footage seems to be included as many others are doing now. The other side is 25 foot width and newly built. Comps will be hard as there are not that many new construction 25 foot wide townhouses with garage.

It seems that newly built townhouses always seem to struggle. I remember the few that were built in Manhattan years ago and sat on the market for a long time. Taxes are one issue. And architecturally, these new houses seem cheap in comparison missing such distinct elements as stoops, proper cornices, and other decorative elements. These elements are apparently too expensive to reproduce in new construction which is just one reason vintage townhouses are much more desirable.

And what are those boxes sitting on the ground between each building, rising up to another box at the top floor? Part of the fire suppression system?

Why are these townhouses setback from the street line? They lose much of their back yards and appear to gain nothing in exchange.

The difference between the spin and the reality seem quite striking to me:

https://therealdeal.com/2013/04/30/bluerock-to-develop-townhouse-block-on-pacific-st-in-brooklyn/

They bought land for less than $100 per sq ft buildable!!! Call it 5000 sq ft each for 4 townhouses.

Sorry $165 per sq ft. 20000 sq ft sellable for 3.3mm.

"Comps will be hard as there are not that many new construction 25 foot wide townhouses with garage."
Why can't the other 3 which sold be used as comps? And look at resales of the new construction Congress St townhouses like: https://streeteasy.com/sale/1257578 (no garage, but I would think that would make it worth less, not more)

"It seems that newly built townhouses always seem to struggle"
Look at The Greenwich Lane. Very successful project, but I think they still have a couple of townhouses unsold.

"These elements are apparently too expensive to reproduce in new construction which is just one reason vintage townhouses are much more desirable."
Looking at the last sales of 123 and 124 Congress Street might lead someone to believe there isn't money in adding a lot of architectural details:
https://streeteasy.com/sale/1280764
https://streeteasy.com/sale/1257578

"And what are those boxes sitting on the ground between each building, rising up to another box at the top floor?"
I think those are the leaders for roof drainage.

"Sorry $165 per sq ft. 20000 sq ft sellable for 3.3mm."
How much do you think they are in it for with ground up construction, carrying for 5 years and marketing, etc.?

300,

The Greenwich Lane is certainly a special project given its location if nothing else. But it's also more of a hybrid townhouse/condo project, yes? Also, not sure what you are saying about 123 Congress. It looks like a very traditional townhouse with a number of architectural features not available in new builds. Did you think the price was low? Maybe.

Also, did the other 325 Pacific units sell? I could not find the records. Project appears to be a condo for some reason.

https://streeteasy.com/sale/1311416
https://streeteasy.com/sale/1246308
https://streeteasy.com/sale/1250814

Re: 123 and 124 Congress my point is that having significantly more architectural details (123) didn't seem to result in any monetary benefit sales wise compared to 124 across the street.

My point about The Greenwich Lane was agreeing with your statement that new construction townhouse projects have often sold worse than anticipated (the first "upscale" row of new construction townhouses I remember was the Greenwich Mews enclave, which I recall not selling all that well originally, and more recently there have been 2 projects with townhouses attached in Soho - 10 Sullivan St and 38 Prince St - which I don't think performed as expected).

Do not the townhouses attached to condo get stuck with high maintenance charges which include doorman, common roof deck etc not to mention a lack of complete independence?

The second reason for new construction townhouses is much higher taxes as you do not benefit from grandfathered low taxes with a cap. This is probably the biggest reason as you can easily provide "federal style" historical details on exterior. Also, with the advancement of molding technology, one can get non-wood crown molding on the cheap.

30, thanks for the Pacific St. sales information. For some reason, I was only looking at the 325 listing thinking the other buildings had the same address. Not sure if it matters, but this project is in fact not 4 lots but only two:

https://newyorkyimby.com/2014/06/revealed-321-325-pacific-street.html

But why the setbacks? Reduces the depth of the backyards for no reason I can fathom.

There was another new townhouse project years ago in the East 60's as I recall. A row of 3 or 4 new houses that sat on the market a very long time. Also, a few new ones were built on Manhattan Avenue years ago that never seemed contextual with the vintage ones on the same street.

You might be right, 300, about the ease of adding traditional architectural elements to a new townhouse but I just haven't seen it.

I think some buy townhouses for the privacy, some for the architectural beauty, sone for the cache. The vintage ones in Bed-Stuy and Crown Heights are prized for their original interiors which some also place great value. To each their own.

That was the case but from what I'm seeing it looks like a lot of people are buying them and ruining them.

30, As far as interiors are concerned, if you want change the layout to suit to how a wealthy person lives today, redo the sagging floors etc and add extension with all glass back facade, interior details can not be preserved.

There are ways to carefully renovate without destroying what is prized by many. Of course, there are always compromises but I think part of the art in renovating a townhouse is knowing how to keep its classic components. It is ironic that a wealthy buyer might gut a masterpiece of a home then hang masterpiece paintings on the walls. Someday, these original homes will be the most prized.