Oro Condo delays...

Oy! What a crew! I had no idea there was so much intrigue behind some of these buildings. It sure looks like a nice place - are you folks for real??? FYI - this "Cindee" character may be the one who is somewhat notorious in a few Manhattan hi rise blogs...don't take her seriously - the last sober day she had was sometime during the Reagan administration!

Stavo, you put 10% down??? Seriously, 10%???

They told me 5% and I said absolutely not and then I mentioned Mandy's name and how she had told me that the rate could be knocked down a "couple points."

After a series of phone calls, I got my 3%. (Yes, Mandy can "get things done" at Oro.)

Syd, do I know you? Mandy I know (yeah, she's a drinking buddy from waaaay back) but I have no idea who you are.

And everyone knows I like my box of wine (Mandy can attest to that!) but I know of what and whom I speak.

Mandy, what's the real reason for this delay? Can you tell the developers to get me my 7% back? I will walk away.

Stavo, you can get back all your 10% if Oro cannot close by Feb.2009. That's highly unlikely! Patience is a virtue.

Mandy's right--patience is a virtue.

But Mandy, you expect Stavo to wait until Feb 09????

That's not patience--that's wine slowly, slowly aging.

If Oro can't close by the end of 2008, something is seriously wrong.

And I'll bet a box of wine on that.

And good wine is better with age. You know that Cindee! I have faith in Oro delivering. Oro is a better building in term of views among all other developments in the area. I will enjoy it when I move in. Ugh the view, the services and facilities. All like a 5 star hotel. What would you pay a room with a view these days? Now you have a condo with a view every day and it's all yours. Worth the wait.

If they don't close until Feb, that means I will lose 5 digits in mortgage extension fee. Mandy obviously you know what I don't know, when is the closing? Is it true that they send out closing letters on frday? HOW COME ORO REQUIRED 10% FROM ME WHILE REQUIRED ONLY 5% FROM CINDEE?

Stavo, I think you pay 10% because your condo is less then $500K. Anything above that is only 5% booking fee. As for the losing I guess if the workers did their job correctly and the inspectors are happy the closing should be known by early Nov. Don't quote me I only guess. Only God can tell you the exact closing. Anything can happened between now and then. Just keep your finger crossed.

K....all relax!!!! Letters have been sent out on Friday! I'm sure we will all receive them by Tuesday. Get your financing taken care of because lower floors will close in the next 30 days (to include walk-thru's). Couple problems...prices have dropped since most of us have signed on the dotted line. We need to eat that since there is really nothing we can do (unless I'm missing something). This area is by far the best area to buy in! The building has 4 star type amenities...it will do well in 5 years. Most people buying in the building are getting 10000-25000 off the asking.....that totally sux for most of us. I would do just about anything to negotiate NOW! The other problem is people that put down less than 10% like myself (5%) are gonna have problems financing anything more than 90% from a bank now a days. No more 80-15 splits...pmi is back!!! Its changed over the last 6-9 months. All banks like Fannie May will not give you a loan if you can't contribute more than 10%. I'm one of them!!! I did not lock in like most BUT may be grandfathered in. I hope it works for me but have to admit that I will walk away and rent for awhile if financing doesn't work out.....if you can't get financing through your bank and ORO cant get you in your unit with there sponsor bank then you get your deposit back and you walk away!!! Its not our fault they could not close when expected and the market has crashed since. To many banks now just wont back a 90% loan. Everyone! big picture is that you have four major developments to our left, right, front, and back that will bring many yuppies!!! You also have many hotels and ARENA's that are in the works. This place will do fine!!!! The only problem I have at this point is the price negation NOW and the banks requiring 10% or more to get a loan. I guess another problem could be the building not selling 50%....if that is TRUE!!! Sorry so long!!!

redsox1 what do you suggest to negotiate with the developers? A group negotiation for the closing fee? Prices? Are you sure of the closing time line? If my loss was less than $30K I would like to walk away than extending my hellhole.

I'm not sure what you mean by a loss less than 30,000. I would not walk away from that money. Then again I dont have that type of money to walk away from. I'm pretty positive that lower floors will receive something this week. You will be given 30 days after to get financing and walk-thru's taken care of. Now to answer your question about negotiating w the developers? I would love for all to get some sort of discount whether it is cash back after closing or those silly transfer taxes to be paid for by the developer not US!!!

oh come on!

If you want to get together and plan to negotiate I am in. I don't have any money to walk away from. But I have been losing money because of the delay and if as Mandy said the closing will be in November I doubt if I can keep paying the mortgage fee. Living out of a suitcase for months has been no fun at all either. Now my focus is to cut the loss. If they are closing in September I for sure will stick around.

Mandy you are not right. A friend of mine who bought 2BR paid 10% down.

What can I say. Didn't they negotiate? Always negotiate with anything you buy- cost you nothing to ask. They would have got a 5% had they asked. Too late now....

So the letter is not about closing as a few bloggers said. I haven't received mine yet but my friend did... Mandy where did you hear November closing time? Did anyone talk to the office about it?

The letter does not give you a closing date. It is just to tell you that the closing date is near and be prepared for the financial prep. Esp. so for lower floor units. They will have the best chance to move in first as the partial CO is most probably going to be staggered. Higher floors will follow. Some of you will have the letter by tomorrow. Just my guess!

Mandy do you know when they will actually send out the closing letters? I checked the building dept site just now and it looks like there was a progress compared to early August. I am seriously worried because tomorrow I am getting charged AGAIN from the bank for the mortgage extension. You mentioned a collective way of efforts to get some sort of compensation from the developers. Are you going to take action? Several people here expressed that they wanted to take an action too but I don't see anyone actually trying.

This is my first time blogging anything online. Now I see that some people who have been blogging sound a little suspicious. If you are from other developments and only trying to trash Oro to get an edge for the competition, shame on you. The real buyers here are REALLY concerned and affected financially as well as emotionally. Stop acting like a parasite. You or your marketing strategy are only as bad as the party you are trashing.

For people who are concerned that this thread will ruin the future of Oro, if Oro had been a little more communicative with their buyers this thread might not have been here.

Now going back to Mandy, I have no intention to single you out but your friend said you 'can get things done', what method of communication do you suggest for us to negotiate with the developers?

Stavo, I am with you and feel very sorry about your situation. Seems everyone else is less serious now that there is some light in the horizon(the letter from Oro). Lets wait and see how everyone else feel after reading the letter and go from there. I suspect some will be happy to wait a month or two more. The only people most affected will be higher floors owner. Without at least 10 owners voicing it won't be effective. Can we get at least 10 to meet up?

I hope so Mandy/ Let's wait and see.

OroBuyer7, have you received any responses via email? How many?

I got my letter! I got my letter!

Best of all, you will ALL be happy to know that "due to unforeseen circumstances beyond our control" and blah, blah, blah, they are are going to absorb the cost of WINDOW TREATMENTS!

There are some restrictions but I think that shows wonderful goodwill on Oro's behalf!

Box of wine, here I come!

"Celebrate good times, come on!"

Oops--WRONG LETTER!

Sorry about that.

I have property in another section of Brooklyn and it too is delayed so they are offering the window treatments.

The Oro is NOT absorbing the cost of window treatments.

Sorry, all. I should NOT drink before 3 PM....

Closing letters are going out. Just heard from my lawyer

Hey! New here on this board. I'm a buyer on the 6th floor. I got a call a few days ago from Jonathan saying that they're expecting to begin closings at the end of the month. I also got one of these calls back in July so I'm not sure quite what to believe. Justwaiting, you definitely heard from your lawyer that closing letters are going out soon? Did he say when?

Got a message from my lawyer saying to call him back - they (Oro) were trying to set up a closing date. Maybe this is it? Waiting to get a call back from him...

I got a closing notice in the mail!

When are you closing RipvanWinkle?

Liar! Liar!, Liar!

How can they set a closing date without a TCO in place?

Are you people for real! There is no doubt that there are people on this blog that are NOT contact holders at ORO!!! YES!!! Fax's were sent to attorney's! I was notified 3 days ago. Looking at an October 1 closing date! This blog should have been better utilized. "Liar, Liar, Liar" I don't get it!!!

Sorry! CONTRACT holders! Spelling mistake! Let me rephrase....some people are try to use this blog as a tool to gain information on a building that is way late to deliver and worse than that, no information flow! Lets all attempt to use this as a way to help each other through the next couple of months thru the closing process. As for SOME of you that monitor and occasionally chime in with your bullsh%t! This place is closing and people who have a contract are moving in!! Gosh, that really does upset some of you doesn't it?

Mine is scheduled for October 1st. You can send out closing notices in anticipation of a TCO. This means they're generally really sure they're getting it within the 30 days time they give you. This is supposedly pretty common practice in new constructions. I went over this with my lawyer before I signed my contract because I was worried about that too.

Just spoke with my lawyer who called the closing notice "not real" as they have neither a declaration nor a TCO. He said it was extremely unlikely that they'd close on that date. Has anyone else heard anything about this?

RipvanWinkle, your lawyer is contradicting himself/herself. Did you ask your lawyer why he's flipping his words? If the letter is "not real" can Oro get away with sending out false information? Did the letter say that the closing date is contingent upon obtaining TCO?

redsox1, of course there will be closing but to date not confirmable yet. No one is putting Oro down. I call them liars when they said they have received letters giving them specific closing dates. There is no fix date for the closing as yet. The letter is just for reassurance to sooth some nerves.

Received my closing letter. October 1st is the meeting.

Mandy, I'm not lying. My letter says October 1st, but my lawyer spoke with the Oro and this is only in anticipation of their ability to close on that date, but that it's very tentative. Get your facts straight before you make inaccurate accusations--there's enough negativity on this board! It certainly seems that at least several people on this board received Oct. 1st closing dates, but like I said, my lawyer said it was very tentative.

Stavo, the letter states "provided that Seller is ready close [sic] on that date." Our contract (unless otherwise negotiated) also gives the Seller an unlimited amount of times that they can postpone the closing date provided that they alert you a minimum of 5 days prior to the set date...

StreetEasy posters have done an excellent job keeping us appraised on this situation. This is what the blog is all about, disseminating topical fresh info from those actually involved.

http://ny.therealdeal.com/articles/oro-closings-finally-expected-to-begin

Junkman, contradicting yourself? You want these folks to go underground and talk about things privately. Then you turn around and applaud them for doing exactly the opposite because in the end, it did produce results? Just sayin' :)

Don't think I'm contradicting myself. Are you saying "I was against it before I was for it!!!!!"

Truth is, if I were them, I wouldn't recommend airing their dirty laundry on a site like StreetEasy. Great for us who are interested in Brooklyn real estate and potential buyers who took note but not so good for those who were already committed.

My protestation was not for myself but concern for those who were contracted at this building and watching the negative publicity lower their investment. Hate to see destruction of wealth through unsubstantiated unofficial discussion and secondly the thought of providing fodder for the likes of dco and Eddie Wilson is not a good idea IMHO.

That said, it was good information for us and proved to be very accurate in hindsight.

Frankly, it was good stuff.

Didn't the article you just posted confirm the pessimism?

"Prudential Douglas Elliman has sold about 45 percent of the 303 units in the 40-story building at 306 Gold Street, but many of those buyers signed contracts more than a year ago when the New York condominium market was still going strong.... Some buyers are openly questioning what the value of their investment and whether they can even obtain financing."

“People who bought with the intention of flipping, will probably try to get their money back"

the "investor" class deserves everything it gets. both profits and losses. the more of them get screwed the better, if you ask me. when you're looking for easy money you should be prepared to get bent over a little. those of us who just want a place to live will do just fine.

I second that observer13

I also second observer13. It is these greedy investors who help to push up the real estate sky high at the expense of real people who need a place to live. Let them pay back what they had profited all these years. "It' pay back time - you rich fat cat investors" That will make them think twice flipping their purchase for a quick profit. There ain't any more for you his time- Fat cat. Toren investors watch out!

I triple/quadruple that, and well put.

Folks wanting to lock in a home and feel like they are in a solid situation, good for you.

But all these brokers and other idiots who tried to sell apartments as "investments", they're going to hell.

"negative publicity lowers their investment. Hate to see destruction of wealth"

I think my statement was misconstrued. Poor wording I guess.

When someone purchases a condo apartment, whether you want to admit it or not, it is an investment. In fact, for the vast majority, it is the largest investment of their lives. To look at it as just a place to live doesn't make much sense to me. Why not look for a great place to live that also has tremendous growth potential. My purchase in the Toren is predicated on building equity and increasing my net worth. I'm 55 years old and this purchase represents close to half my entire net worth. In short, it is a huge investment.

I surely wasn't referring to myself as the "investor class" though this real estate transaction is a major part of my investment portfolio.

It also makes up my total liabilities. (mortgage) It is a big deal. Purchasing an apartment realigns your entire balance sheet. Making a poor decision can bankrupt an individual. We all have seen the consequences of poor decision making by many a purchaser of real estate.

Anyone even thinking of flipping in this environment is absurd. Can't imagine anyone who reads this site even contemplating such a course of action.

Observer, your comment that "the more of the "investor class" that screws themselves the better" sounds a little bitter. What are you against capitalism? Does that include all the developers who are putting their cash down and transforming downtown Brooklyn into a much better place to live? Does that include the 136 purchasers of the Oro? Are you glad they lost money? I'm not. I want everyone to reap great returns and enjoy living in an environment that appreciates annually. A Brooklyn that grows benefits both purchasers and developers is a good thing.

nyc10022, I know you consider an apartment a major investment. You are too smart not too. Again, it is the largest single investment for the vast majority of the public. Are you blaming brokers for trying to sell apartments in this environment? Should they just close shop? The market will dictate the bottom, not you, not I, not the brokerage community. Caveat emptor "Let the buyer beware".

Or you can just wait till June 30th, 2009.

http://nymag.com/news/businessfinance/bottomline/49938/

now what, all the sales or relatives dominate this board? please don't get ppl wrong. all they want is just prompt and correct response from oro. even we have 'a closing letter' in our hand, we doubt it is real. anyway, i heard there is a article(in our contract) that we can have 'money-back' when they can't closing before Feb 09. do anyone know this?

Junkman, is is exactly the kind of mistake you are talking about that has cost a LOT of people who couldn't afford it a LOT of money in this country.

13 dictionary results for: investment
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
in·vest·ment /ɪnˈvɛstmənt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[in-vest-muhnt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. the investing of money or capital in order to gain profitable returns, as interest, income, or appreciation in value.

Unless you are renting it out, without adding in the value of living in it, RE is a horrible, horrible investment (mainly because you are competing with folks who will rent it out or live in it). Given that that benefit gets netted out, the "investment" portion is pretty lacking.

"Why not look for a great place to live that also has tremendous growth potential. My purchase in the Toren is predicated on building equity and increasing my net worth"

Well, that would be a nice thing. Sure, LOOK for it. I'd like my cake and to eat, it too. But anyone who tries to sell you on that notion isn't being honest.
I'd like to buy candy that gives me huge biceps. In the meantime, I'm gonna get fat looking for it.

> Observer, your comment that "the more of the "investor class" that screws themselves the better"
> sounds a little bitter. What are you against capitalism?

I think you have I backward. I don't think this is "against" capitalism, to me this is VERY PRO capitalism. The folks who put in money at the wrong time losing their shirts... that sounds pretty damn free market to me. Hell, he SAID that.

"the "investor" class deserves everything it gets. both profits and losses"

You want all upside and no downside, that isn't capitalism, that is denial.

> I want everyone to reap great returns and enjoy living in an environment that appreciates annually.

And food and housing for everyone! I think we call that communism. ;-)

If you want profits without losses, that certainly 'aint capitalism.
And it DEFINITELY isn't real estate.

> nyc10022, I know you consider an apartment a major investment
Yes, a poor one in 2008, particularly if it is taking over most of your balance sheet. As I said up above, it is this kind of stretch that has left millions of americans in horrible, horrible shape.

thanks for your efforts to interprete for the dense and gullible, nyc10022. and yes, i do hope more investors get screwed. that would mean lower prices and less competition for those of us who prefer to work for a living.

It often amazes me how many folks just don't get it. Then again, I see who the country votes for.
;-)

Its one thing if these folks just ruined it for themselves. But I absolutely agree with you, they make it harder for working folks to afford things in "hot" times, and then the resulting crashes make it super hard to get any new inventory built in bad times.

Speculators hurt the folks who actually need what they are speculating on, whether real estate or oil.

Having them get crushed is not only justice, it at least slows down speculation for a few years.

Is closing actually happening on Oct 1st?

Does anyone know how many day notice Oro has to provide if they change the Oct 1 close date? Is it 7 days? Has anyone heard any news on the TCO?

It's five business days I think. I looked on the DoB site and it doesn't even list an upcoming scheduled inspection! Mandy, any news? I thought you mentioned that you're guessing things won't close until November?

I heard that they are trying to arrange an inspection as early as possible- the city is very understaff. The earliest date would be in mid or even late Oct. Given inspection in mid Oct the earliest temp. TCO can be around early Nov. That's the most optimistic date. Any promised on 1st of Oct will be far fetched if not impossible. Oro is also very worrid that there will be a lot of walk out scenario if by Feb they cannot closed. Obviously most early buyers especially speculators will opt out for sure since they saw their investments went down by 20%. That's an open invitation to calamity for Oro. Believe me Oro is more nervous then you think. Sit tight Oro is sitting on pins and needles.It's not a situation they want to be in. Meanwhile sales hasn't pick up and rather bad. Seems Toren is not having new buyers too. Bell Tower is also in a dire stage with no buyers. Their $1100 sq ft can be had at $700 sq ft these days. Time to haggle...

Where did you get the dates Mandy? I heard today that they are expecting the TCO ANY DAY NOW. Is that inspection for CO or TCO?

Where did you heard that TCO can be expected any day now? Get that signed in blood. Have you been drinking?

Drinking?? that sounds like a good idea. I am going insane! That's what the office said today I swear. Get their words signed in blood is a great idea though. BTW I heard that some people are actually considering walking out of their deals. it's getting ugly. If I can't pay the extension anymore I will have to walk as well...

Last Inspection: 09/10/2008 - - BY BADGE # 1510 SANTAMARIA SANDY ELEVATORS
Disposition: 09/12/2008 - - C1 - INSPECTOR UNABLE TO GAIN ACCESS - 1ST ATTEMPT
Disposition Entered By: JWA 09/12/2008 12:56:23
Comments: NO ACCESS

http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/OverviewForComplaintServlet?requestid=21&vlcompdetlkey=0001071896

Why Oro wouldn't let the inspector in? This elevator problem has been going on for months as far as know. Mandy do you have any idea why they are fixing this? Is this why the TCO is not getting issued?

Stavo, I've been told by the office (both Jonathan and Samantha) numerous times that they are expecting TCO "any day now." I think it's just what they say to calm people down.

I love 'Oro Project'. I am still thinking this project have a good future. but, sales and developer need to start to talk with buyers and give real and correct info. to them. and city is not that busy.

Amen to that BKLN. How many more times do we have to go through hopes-up let-down repetition? Incorrect information doesn't not calm people down. But then maybe that's truly what they are informed from developers. After all the office people are just messengers. Mandy, where did you get your information about November?

let's all call Howard Faulkner at Ismael Leyva Architets at 212-290-1444 and ask him when they're expecting the next department of building inspection to take place and what they've done insure that there are no objections this time.

sounds like a plan, observer. let me ask first, 'tho - who is Howard Faulkner?

an employee at leyva who oversees the project.

I like the idea of group action instead of individual one. There is strength in numbers!

http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/InspectionHistoryServlet?requestid=3&passjobnumber=301968440&allbin=3000247

Observer13 this is awesome! thanks for the link. TCO of in place and i am ready to close. FAB!

i wonder how many contract signers are walking away from deposits now...

nyc10022, what do u mean? Isn't this good news for contract holders?

Don't know about the rest of you guys. I will try to renegotiate the price. I would hope the rest of you guys will at least try. By the way, Oro 2 is having problem in getting financing. Walking away is still an option on my table. Thank god I didn't give them 10%.

As Mandy said before I don't think Oro will move unless you act in a group. I know a friend of mine tried to negotiate the price but failed. Thanks for the info observer13. What a relief...

It's good news for those of us who bought it planning to make it our home. For those who thought iw ould appreciate fast and make money, they're out of luck.

Well now that it looks closings are going to happen, anyone have any mortgage recommendations?

Has anyone hooked up with the rep from Wells Fargo? He's been leaving me voice mail messages re: mortgage rates.

How much do you think the prices will go down in this development? Seems like the units should be at least 30% lower.

Cleanslate , based on what?

Based on the current economy and based on the fact that they're not even 50% sold?

I know I mentioned this before but we are offering $2000 closing cost credit for Oro buyers and Toren buyers. It can be used to buy down rates or just simply pay closing costs. sunny_hong@countrywide.com

But on what basis do you come up with the 30%? I don't see developers slashing prices to move units. Just my hunch, but I don't see it. Maybe if this was in a mature neigborhood, but with the growth and rapidly changing demographic on downtown Brooklyn, I doubt it.

Another 15-20% down nationwide according to experts like Nouriel Roubini. That will total 40% down in real estate since the decline began. But NYC has a buffer although it's not the same buffer as before.

Hey Bklyn, I meant to imply that they will have to, or they will be forced to and I don't mean it will happen overnight, I'd say by next year. Either that or they're not gonna get all units sold. They're overpriced no matter how you look at it given the location plus there's a lot of competition around that area. You'd be a sucker to buy there at the current prices with this economy.

You're forgetting one option they have on the table. According to the offering plan, they reserve the right to rent out X amount of unsold units.

I think everyone knows that ORO need that 50% threshold. It is great opportunity for buyer who had paid a premium to negotiate this instant. If these buyers were to walk out ORO will loose out- failing to get 50% sale for loans qualification. So where are the nos? The more buyers there are to negotiate the stronger we can drive home the message. I think asking 20% off the original sale price is reasonable. 30% is a bit pushing. What say you all????

Mandy, why don't you try and see if you can get a discount? As I said before my friend failed. If you want a group action I am in.

If it's just 2 of us that's not good enough. We need 10 or more at least to have that bargaining power. If 10 buyers walk out that's something ORO have to reconsider. Power by numbers!

why don't we arrange a off-line meeting or a private blog for the ppl who want some discount? there is one thing I 've been worried. we need to make sure that we are ok after we walked out. cause the developer can sue us when we cancel the contract. even after we lost the 10% deposit. if this will be fine, then I am with you, stavo and mandy.

also i think 10% is enough. the price of our property is not droped that much big.

This will seperate the investors and speculators from the home buyers. Call me naive, but I bought into this place because I loved what it had to offer. I'm not sure where you get the ideas that you're due 20% or 30% percent discounts - good luck. Did people really think that these units were guaranteed instantaneous money making investments? Did you really think real estate would continue to go the way it had gone for the last 10 years? I plan to live in this place for a number of years to come, and believe in time, I'll be glad I did.

"I plan to live in this place for a number of years to come, and believe in time, I'll be glad I did." I am like you jw10003. This will be my home and I intend to keep this property for years to come, maybe for decades. I think Mandy and people who want to negotiate the price are considering the market value drop. I heard that they are waiting for appraisal to come in later this week. We'll see how it appraises. If they appraise there is no chance of getting a discount, I think.

I like the idea of creating a private blog/forum ONLY for real buyers of Oro. I can see by now who's a buyer and who's not on this blog. How do we start?

If we can gather enough people we might be able to get some discount in closing cost at least?

That's a great idea. If we can discuss (contract holders only) what's on our minds, and share ideas...I'm all for it. There tends to be a lot of "background noise" on streeteasy. I think we can start a group thru Yahoo.groups or Google.groups for ex., but not sure how.

Agreed

I seconded! Count me in too. Thanks!

Agreed! If we have the TCO though, does that mean we're ready to close?

They are waiting for declaration and appraisal to come in.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OroBuyersOnly/

I made this forum on Yahoo. Hope to see you real buyers join. I also want to see if we can get a group discount on appliances such as washer/dryer if there are enough people.

I plan on living in ORO for a long time, but I think of the buy process like I would treat any other business venture. I want the best deal. I don't see why trying to get a good deal is a bad thing. The seller doesn't care about us it's business. If they could get more money from us they would, so I think we're entitled to get as much from them as we can. It's business.

Stavo I cannot sign in at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OroBuyersOnly/

Has anybody managed to sign in? resp is right we need to hit a hard bargin with Oro while we still can. If 10 or more walk out Oro will yield....