renovation plan

I do not think you reno will happen for less than $300 per sq ft all in.

I would keep everything relatively neutral for resale. Consider open kitchen with island seating as younger generation likes it (just look at all new developments which are not 3-4 bedrooms). These two will make a lot of difference.

Marble tiles of 12x24 size in the bathroom (skip on colorful mosaic). Nice vanity - you only have one bath. Good appliances and counter-top (light color quartz) in the kitchen. Cabinets can be high-end Ikea. Skip on fancy custom mill-work, built-ins, door knobs etc.

Do not forget nice flooring say 5 inch wide oak and nice clean base moldings.

New buyer,

If it is for an investment you can get it down anywhere from 200-250 per sq ft but it will take a lot of value engineering.

It amazes me that people on this thread constantly claim $300/sf is the minimum for a full renovation. That may be the case with significant moving of walls/plumbing/wiring etc., but honestly most coops won't let you do that anyway. I'm currently doing a renovation of a 1,250 sf coop that was estate condition (not touched, at least in any kind of positive way, since the 1960s) that includes new baths/kitchen/floors and reconfiguring some closets and am currently looking at around $175/sf.

Of course it depends on the type of building however. In my case that investment brings me probably within $50-100K of what other renovated properties are selling for as it's a middle-class building. Accordingly, IKEA and porcelain tile work fine, but might not suffice for a luxury building. One thing to avoid at all costs is custom cabinetry of any type. IKEA is a literal fraction of the price (like 10-20% of the cost!) and you can also use custom doors to make them look less generic.

Does $175 include Architect, expeditor and other fees? $300 per sq ft I quoted is certainly for mid-luxury Reno which will include subzero, Wolf, through wall AC replacement, radiator covers, AC covers etc. Ikea and porcelain tiles certainly will not qualify as luxury but many people are prefectures happy with that.

nycseller
I disagree about "avoiding at all costs" custom cabinetry. Especially in small NY kitchens you end up with a lot of bad designs (I am still shocked almost daily at seeing very expensive kitchen Reno's with layouts I hate) because people are relegated to stock sized cabinets in 3" increments. I have done a bunch of kitchen Reno's using full custom cabinets (down to 1/16 in in any dimension, any wood species I wanted, any door profile I could draw, etc) at minimally more than Ikea prices. You just have to go direct to small cabinet shops in places with cheap Real Estate and labor and have them shipped to you "knocked down."

I did Home Depot custom cabinets, which I think were to the nearest 1/4" inch, plus my own hardware selection. Ended up with no glaringly obvious filler strips, and 5+ years later they still look great and operate perfectly.

(total apt reno came in just under $200/sq.ft., including gut of kit & bath, patch and refinish (not replace) floors, custom shelving in entry hall, some wiring tweaks, wall skimcoat, new baseboards and cornices, redesign/replace all doors (now all full height), all painting, and architects fees.)

Seems reasonable. So if you redid the following, it would have added the following:
1. Electrical and associates wall redo $15-30
2 . New floors/subfloors including install less refinish - $15-30
3. Through wall ac replacement with covers etc - $10-15
4. New windows: who knows as many times it is building responsibility
5. Window sills, trims, interior: who knows

Can’t say about your appliances and countertops. Countertops cost, as you know, can vary greatly depending on size, material and whether you used the same material for backsplash as the countertop.

i did 2 cheapest rental grade reno years ago when costs were cheaper than now, one is $120/sqft, the other is $150/sqft. qualities were both bad.

Be careful using the "apps" that have lists of contractors.
The prevalence of them is a disservice to the industry and give everyone a bad name

They are sneaky, creepy "used car salesmen", and shouldn't be trusted

The resale value would be far more good. And the renovations would not take much if you do only the renovation of only the main parts of the house such as kitchen and bathroom. That double the house value. I would suggest you to contact the professionals like Home Quality Remodeling https://homequalityremodeling.com/ for the best advice.

newbuyer,

Just wanna chime in and say everything which your asking about is exactly what I went through 2 years ago and the most accurate information which has been contributed has been what 300_mercer has said.

Once you factor in the 9 months the unit will be vacant, the permits, architect, etc etc... it is pretty spot on! $300/sq ft. MAYBE!!! you can push for $250/sq ft. but once you're in the mix of things, you will quickly see how going with higher end upgrades are obvious... For example, in NYC the cost in labor is so expensive that it doesn't make sense to go with cheap fixtures (You're not going to spend $500 on tiles when it costs $3k to install it). I am INCREDIBLY FRUGAL!!! Which means, I am retired, and I spend an incredible amount of time shopping around just to save a penny. My unit is 1050sq ft. I would say... I probably spent $280/sq ft. I have porcelonosa tiles, subzero cabinet fridge, wolf range&micro, 5" flooring, custom window cabinets, walk in closet, robern vanity, hansgrohe shower/jets, etc etc

GOODLUCK !!

I agree with superlun - especially when it comes to being overly frugal with materials while spending big on other aspects (not just labor, but architect, carrying, etc). But I will also add that if prices continue to go down it may be difficult to recoup the cost of higher end renovations, especially in marginal areas. If you get to where houses in livable but not luxurious condition are trading at $400/SF it's probably going to be hard to get $800/SF for one's with $400/SF renovations.

To do cheap renos, one must hide real plans from building, let (illegal/undocumented) contractors borrow licenses, and not filing permits

Agree with superlun - labor is what will hit you. In my case my best estimate is I will spend $500 sft on a 1200 sft, 2 bath, 2 bed apt full renovation. Not doing ultra luxury, but going for a more modern minimalist look that unfortunately is more expensive to execute. My guess is that 30% of the cost is electrical, plumbing and tile installation labor.

Grapefruit, I am assuming you are including carry and hassle in $500 per sq ft. Otherwise it seems little high. Perhaps you are using Poggenpohl or one the designer kitchens and dornbracht etc.

grapefruit,
When you are done, including all costs, do you think the unit will be worth more than, equal to, or less than your all-in cost?

On thing about extensive, lengthy renovations is AFAIK you can't add any of the carrying expenses to your tax basis, or deduct anything from your income tax like you would for your primary residence.

hassle itself could be far more than $500 per sq ft

As Julia Child said "...nothing is too much trouble if it turns out the way it should. Good results require that one take time and care.”

Sorry my response seemed to have disappeared.

The renovation is a bit high as it has evolved to nearly a gut project. I am also installing a Valcucine kitchen and some high end fixtures and tiles. In terms of cost the architect is included in the $500 sft. Potentially I could have done this for $400 sft, but this would be by getting rid of air conditioning and some other architectural features. I could also have gone easily to $700+ sft, which is what one architect I interviewed was contemplating.

At the end the apartment will be worth less than the all in cost. I paid a premium for the location and having terraces, and it just too difficult to make money back on a gut renovation for a smaller apartment (there is a limit to what people will pay for a 1200 sft space). But at the end I don't plan to sell the apartment, and I will get the look that I want (though with some compromises).

Grapefruit,

Well said, renovations is not always about resale. You are renovating to make your home as you want it. We are in the middle of a project that my client is spending $1,000 sq ft for his 1200sq ft apt. He knows he will never get the money back but that does not interest him. He is investing his money so he can enjoy his apt with all the luxuries he wants.

Enjoy your new home

Primer, Will you be able to give a rough breakdown of how one would spend $1.2mm on a 1200 sq ft project? Thank you.

300 Mercer,

Demo: 15,300
Carpentry: 29,000
Electrical: 147,000 ( home automation)
Plumbing: 85,900 includes all fixtures
HVAC: 22,300
Flooring: 39,500
Stone and tile: $178,000
Wallpaper and leather walls: 36,800
Painting : 38,600
Millwork: 470,000
Fixtures and appliances: $68,200
Plus overhead, profit and fees

Keep in mind this is not typical, almost every wall has custom millwork or stone.
Appliances include a wine dispenser.

Thank you for sharing this. That is a lot of millwork for a 1200 sq ft apartment. Other stuff is not crazy.

300 Mercer

There is a ton of millwork which includes custom metal work

This is what it will look like
https://www.instagram.com/p/ByILIWwgxMN/

Interesting thread..I have to ask, isn't there a diminishing return when spending that kind of money on a 1200sft apartment? I mean, are they going to get that 1m+ back when they sell it just a fraction of it?

Primer, Looks very nice. I will look for more pictures in a few months at your website.

300 Mercer,

I don to update the website all that much, better to look on instagram.

Urban,

There is a diminishing return but my client did not purchase the apt or renovate it for an investment, he wants what he wants... He will probably only use it 6 weekends a year