Economic benefit of causing congestion?
Started by 30yrs_RE_20_in_REO
about 6 years ago
Posts: 9880
Member since: Mar 2009
Discussion about
1) https://gothamist.com/news/essex-crossing-traffic-nightmare-will-likely-hold-people-hostage-years Up until very recently this area was contiguous blocks of publicly owned land (https://images.app.goo.gl/Wa4HS2caVzVzxMBt7). The City could have easily and with minimal cost widened these streets any time it wanted to for decades. This would have made things safer for motorists, cyclists and... [more]
1) https://gothamist.com/news/essex-crossing-traffic-nightmare-will-likely-hold-people-hostage-years Up until very recently this area was contiguous blocks of publicly owned land (https://images.app.goo.gl/Wa4HS2caVzVzxMBt7). The City could have easily and with minimal cost widened these streets any time it wanted to for decades. This would have made things safer for motorists, cyclists and pedestrians (Vision Zero = Zero Vision). Yet instead we went ahead with a plan which anyone with half a brain would know was going to vastly increase an already existing problem which has not only dealt a blow to the quality of life to all the residents of the neighborhood but greatly increased the risk of injury or death to both pedestrians and cyclists. 2) https://www.nydailynews.com/new-yor...0191124-qmj5mh6yare2dkd4drjyzqnd6i-story.html I've been driving in New York for over 40 years. For most of that time period there was never a problem with congestion on 14th St, 23rd St or any of the major cross-town streets. In fact the entire purpose of these streets was to take traffic away from the smaller sidestreets and make them safer. That is until DOT decided to cause congestion on these streets on purpose by cutting them down to one lane in each direction and turning them into parking lots. Then to "solve" the problem they created the "solution" is to ban cars altogether and make it a bus route. Over the last several months I have spoken with several small business owners on 14th St who have all said there businesses have been seriously impacted and they have doubts they will be able to remain in business. As an aside, I have seen a number of articles claiming there isn't a problem on side streets with congestion as a result of these changes, but I personally have experienced how terrible things have gotten. A week ago on Saturday night at 8PM it took 45 minutes to get from 1st Avenue and 20th St to 8th Avenue and 24th St (a trip which should be 15 minutes during rush hour). 3) I could easily add dozens more examples of congestion being caused on purpose by NYC and DOT. So my question is: What is the economic benefit to NYC, it's businesses or it's residents of causing all this congestion on purpose? Also, what's with the mixed signals on congestion (i.e. "Congestion in Midtown is so bad that we have to cap the number of 'for hire' licenses we allow and instute a tax on anyone who dares enter Manhattan below 60th St" but at the same time "We are upzoning Midtown East to add a couple million more square feet of office space") [less]
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There is no economic benefit, and Comrade DiBlasio has not had an economic thought in his life. Any articles claiming that there is minimal impact from closing 14th street are delusional propaganda. I live on 12th street, and it is a parking lot 18 hours a day. It takes three turns of the traffic light on the avenues to travel from one avenue to the other, probably more at third avenue where cars are turning in both directions. The bike lanes only add to the problem of cars unable to turn, taxis and trucks nowhere to stop. Yet, you can eat lunch in the middle of 14th street, as a bus or other vehicle passes one or two every few minutes. Apart from the direct loss of business you mention, the traffic delays themselves represent serious costs (putting aside the constant car horns and added pollution), and there are now traffic cops (doing nothing constructive) at nearly every intersection along 12th, 13th and 14th streets for 12 hours a day, wasting probably a million or more dollars. And, the whole thing was a ruse, since the L train never shout down.
No economic benefit, for sure the opposite. I live right off EBroadway / Clinton and there are plans now for new res towers on NE corner. This is the last place in the area that needs construction. I believe it will be two towers on either side of an existing brick building (library or something). traffic is horrible already and once construction starts it will be even worse. The bike lanes ( as much as i support bikes) is worst thing to happen to NYC, especially in those tight one lane each direction streets. Is there anyone in our city government capable of making smart decisions? well thought out plans? Taking traffic away from one street causes delays on others. Just finished "The Power Broker" and if they took almost 100 years to finish 2nd ave train, then of course they will F this up even more. I think at some point NYC will reach its breaking point, so many conflicting interests, each doing whatever they think is right. They're about to redo east river park which they just spent millions. It's actually depressing walking to the train every morning, as soon as i walk out there is a traffic jam already, honking cursing, and they've been drilling my street for the 7th time this year. keep patching it up and coming back every few weeks to dig, so stupid. I need a therapist just to talk about how horrible our city planing is.
There are times in the evening where I can cross by foot against the light at 14th & Fourth Ave. No traffic.
stache,
So there's a 6 lane road in the middle of Manhattan only getting used for 20 buses an hour at that point? How is that for a waste of assets?
At the same time add up all the hours wasted by people sitting in traffic on the side streets due to increased congestion - what do you think the economic loss is from that?
What would be the long-term economic gain from creating a cross-town long wide pedestrian mall / park, lined with stores and apartment buildings that would attract residents and shoppers? At a time when vehicle ownership is dropping, environmental concerns are growing, and there's a strip of neighborhood ripe for some updating? Hint: High Line, but without the ability to peep into people's bedrooms.
(Many will remember the subway ads: "I shop all over town, but I buy on 14th Street!")
I do not know to what you refer when saying vehicle ownership is dropping. "Overall registrations increased 8.59 percent over the four-year period" of DiBlasio's first term. https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2018/10/03/car-ownership-continues-to-rise-under-mayor-de-blasio/
But if we are discussing what is good for Manhattan for Manhattan residents, car ownership is not a relevant consideration. I have had a car for 30 years. I can count on two hands how many times I have used it for an intra-Manhattan trip. In any event, closing broadway has not exactly turned that into a shopping mall, or spurred any development. You can't have businesses and residences without trucks.
nyc_sport,
If you're going to stop cycling advocates from simply making up statistics whenever they need them there's not going to be much of a discussion.