What will it sell for?

Overpriced and for a building with no underlying mortgage an oddly high maintenance.

I like it. While I can’t tell the square footage, seems very good value for a clean move-in condition apartment for an always overlooked location.

Check records for apartments above and below - footages vary wildly and there is a reason the floor plan with this listing doesn’t show dimensions,
because these apartments are usually tiny.
And the maintenance is too high if it’s strictly for maintenance without any underlying mortgage

Awful kitchen layout.

The 2014 listing has the floor plan that includes dimensions.

Since co-op offering plans don't provide you with square footage, we left it out rather than guesstimating like some of the other units you allude to. No board interview, five-day turnaround approval with management once application submitted. I think they did a nice job with what they had to work with regarding the kitchen and opening the space up a bit.

All in all I think it's a very nice layout for a real 2 bedroom 2 bath, high floor with good light and views, renovated for just over $1M.

Keith Burkhardt
TBG

@Keith - I like it and think you guys did a nice job on the presentation. This is close to the market I follow, and were I a buyer, I would definitely check it out.

@ph41 - I love getting your take because our preferences diverge so much. Our current apartment would make your head explode - "Who on earth would pay THAT for THAT?!"

Wow, that is an even quicker turnaround then our building. We also recently renovated our small kitchen into and adjoining room and it made our space much more functional. And while pics don't necessarily tell the whole story, after looking at the prior listings of this unit and this one, it looks like a monster improvement and an almost entirely open floor plan with some pre-war charm. Good luck Keith! Hope it sells quick.

Thank you! We had a very good turnout at the open house yesterday, 12 groups. Apologies I realized we didn't have the dimensions up on the floor plan, floor plan person forgot to add them back in! You can see this is not a tiny apartment by any means.

FYI: open house traffic was quite strong for all of our listings last week. We received multiple bids on one property so far.

Keith

Nice. If I am reading that correctly the kitchen to living room (which looks almost entirely open) is 40 feet long. Not too shabby.

One day, I hope to be in the market for a part-time NYC home and this is exactly what I'd want to find.

Keith, speaking of Midtown East-y units, what's your sense for why your 201 East 62nd listing has been struggling a bit? Seems like a reasonably recent renovation, W/D, and seemingly market pricing for 2br/2ba. And yet...

Contract out. That said 50% down....

I would always prefer a listing to be silent on square footage than to exaggerate in a "keeping up with the Joneses" lying competition. In this particular unit my guess is that giving an honest square footage would damage the marketing effort, and lying about the square footage to compete with other listings would be...... Lying.

So I absolutely agree with what TBG did here.

Keith, Glad you are standing up for your listing and answering comments. All listing agents should do that if they have some thing to defend.

And I always notice (will refrain from saying what I think) when people say maintenance is high without providing comparable maintenance numbers in a meaningful manner.

AFAIK the maintenance in this building has been shockingly stable over the past 15 years. I mean to the point I have to wonder how the hell they are doing it.

It's possible they are still reaping the benefits of forcing out the Sponsor back in ?1992? and selling their units.

30yrs, I just looked and it looks like maintenance is even less than when the current owner purchased it back in 2014 (and those pictures show that place was in crap shape back then). That is pretty damn good especially since, as we all know, property taxes have gone up considerably since then.

Re maintenance, I am desperate to know what PH41 pays such that she found this maintenance high. I look at the maintenance on this unit in this neighborhood in this building as enviable and am wondering this building has the same managing agent as LZ3's building. Such would certainly make sense since it looks like LZ3's managing agent may have gotten their start as Tudor City's managing agent before expanding their outreach. Our building is in the process of soliciting a proposal from them.

>MCR - my maintenance is about $2.23/sq.ft, which covers maintenance, taxes, and portion of interest on underlying mortgage. Fully staffed building with resident super, Concierges , doormen, porters, etc.
This apartment is about 900-925 sq. ft. so maintenance is about $2.67 or more just for maintenance and taxes. No underlying mortgage. That’s why it seemed somewhat high to me.

>MCR - my maintenance is about $2.23/sq.ft, which covers maintenance, taxes, and portion of interest on underlying mortgage. Fully staffed building with resident super, Concierges , doormen, porters, etc.
This apartment is about 900-925 sq. ft. so maintenance is about $2.67 or more just for maintenance and taxes. No underlying mortgage. That’s why it seemed somewhat high to me.

>MCR - my maintenance is about $2.23/sq.ft, which covers maintenance, taxes, and portion of interest on underlying mortgage. Fully staffed building with resident super, Concierges , doormen, porters, etc.
This apartment is about 900-925 sq. ft. so maintenance is about $2.67 or more just for maintenance and taxes. No underlying mortgage. That’s why it seemed somewhat high to me.

>MCR - my maintenance is about $2.23/sq.ft, which covers maintenance, taxes, and portion of interest on underlying mortgage. Fully staffed building with resident super, Concierges , doormen, porters, etc.
This apartment is about 900-925 sq. ft. so maintenance is about $2.67 or more just for maintenance and taxes. No underlying mortgage. That’s why it seemed somewhat high to me.

And I’m basing my p/sq/ft maintenance number on interior sq.ft. excluding terraces sq.ft

>MCR - actually just began looking at recent sales in my building and maintenance/sq.ft seems to be about $1.85/sq.ft. (so my maintenance is including the terraces). So for a comparable apartment in my building the maintenance would be significantly less than the Tudor City unit.

@ph41 - Count yourself lucky and appreciate your building management. Those are great numbers.

At 925 f2 that puts the maintenance at $2.62 a f2, that is certainly not high. There's a 24-hour doorman, small gym and a live in super. I don't think you can find a better 2 bedroom, 2 bath in such a central location at this price point. Also beautiful and very well kept building.

And let's not forget no board interview and 5-day approval through management along with no sublet restrictions. Some will prefer the more rigorous approach of other co-ops, but certainly many people will find this a breath of fresh air. @ph41-obviously I can't comment on your home, because I have no idea where you live. However, congratulations if you're happy with your home, along with the building's financials!

Keith Burkhardt
TBG

@ph41 $1.85 a square foot with a full-time doorman, Manhattan... That's very good. And it sounds like you're living in a penthouse based on your handle.

Keith

Fundamental issue may be that P41 may have inflated view of her square footage relative to what she is estimating the square footage of this unit. We all know that there are so many different ways to calculate the square footage. My favorite dumb way to compare is what the appraisers use frequently for coops - they will use square footage of the unit being appraised while stripping out exterior walls and compare it to price per square foot of other recent sales in other buildings using stated square footage of the listing.

> 300 - I am using the architectural floor plans from my architect for my renovation- and my own interior measurements. Both are 2,950 sq. ft.
Re: this listing - just use the listed dimensions on all floor plans from this unit and all others in the line to calculate the footage.
> MCR and Keith : I’m very happy with my apartment, with the building financials, and with the way the building is being managed.

Most people will view this apartment as well over 1000 sqft. I would even say 1050 sq ft. How do you come up with 925 sq ft?

BTW, for 2950 sq ft apartment 11x19 is a small eat-in kitchen- more like a galley kitchen with some seating and of course windows as per your other post.

>MCR - kudos to you for working to get into your coop board to make things better - often a difficult and thankless (unpaid) job!

Simple calc
Living Room plus entry: 13x28 = 364
Kitchen: 11x20 = 220
Bed room area plus 6 inch allowance for separating wall: 18x28= 504

Total 1088 and I have not included the exterior walls or any other areas.

How the hell one could come up with 925 sq ft and talk about how they have a sweet deal? To massage they ego?

BTW - when I talk about my own measurements I am talking about actually using a tape measure in my own apartment

But how you come up with 900-925 sq ft besides to stroke you ego on how good of a deal you have?

You wrote: “ This apartment is about 900-925 sq. ft. so maintenance is about $2.67 or more just for maintenance and taxes. No underlying mortgage. That’s why it seemed somewhat high to me.”

>300 - you are just too funny! An 11.5x19’ eat in kitchen is too small for this space ! LOL!!!

>300 - you are just too funny! An 11.5x19’ eat in kitchen is too small for this space ! LOL!!!

> 300 - just curious how big is your kitchen relative to your loft?

Let us focus on how big you estimated this apartment rather than diverting to save face. I have a tiny place, kitchen and no sense of humor.

You are the one diverting , after attacking big time.
I just looked at the floor plans and added up the dimensions.
And then you attacked for no reason

So, how big is your kitchen?

Ph41, I think I have made my point that you have no clue on how to calculate square footage. It will be very pretentious of me to talk about my kitchen size.

At the end of the day it can be very difficult to calculate square footage without some measure of fault, especially in an apartment that's fully built out. And then of course there are at least two or three different ways people calculate total square footage.

I think an educated buyer will examine the floor plan and determine whether or not the space, based on the dimensions is big enough for them.

Square footage(in a co-op) is an important baseline measurement we use to understand not only an apartments value but to gauge whether the maintenance is in a normal range. However then we have to make adjustments for other important factors to help us understand a proper valuation for a particular property. As the saying goes, size isn't everything....

In my opinion, based on the many properties we view day in and day out, this particular unit is head-and-shoulders above many. I don't mean this snarkily, but not everybody can afford to live in a 3000 square foot penthouse. This is not only a wonderful starter home, this could be a wonderful forever home for the right people.

Keith Burkhardt

FWIW, I never consider square feet in purchase decisions, but rather look at the particular apartment and its price points (asking price and ongoing maintenance) and ask; Is it worth it to me? I suspect this unit would be worth it to me. With that said, were I one to use square feet in my analysis, I would come out where 300_mercer does on this unit.

Let's sidestep the issue of square footage, as diverting as it is, and look at this apartment through the lens of its "monthly nut."

If buyer pays list, puts 25% down, and borrows at 3.5% ....pause for you all to disagree with those assumptions here ... then the mortgage bite is $3,705 a month. A $2,431 maintenance means a monthly nut of $6,136.

Since insurance in NYC is negligible .... pause for you all to disagree with that ... this unit is probably looking for a buyer with $300K HHI or above, who likes this better than what they can rent in the ~$6,000/~$6,500 range.

At that point, Keith's presentation of the advantages of the unit (such as the 24-hour doorman) comes into consideration.

I realize that "monthly nut" is not the only way to think about an apartment's maintenance, but I find it helpful when I think about "what buyer would I bring to this property?"

ali r.

I would just add to that Ali, a buyer that would prefer ownership to renting.

Ali, looks like only 20% down is required but you are probably right. I also agree with what Keith said and that is important for 2 reasons: (1) rates are crazy low; and (2) the "nut" is less because you get a $750k mortgage interest deduction. Also to be considered is, if as the ad says, there is unlimited subletting and no board to deal with, selling/renting is easier. That has value.

I'm a hardcore UWSer, but I really like this apartment. Not everyone needs a big kitchen, especially if this size apartment works for them.

Agree, good space, well laid out, competitive price, apparently not a PITA board. Developers would do well to build a few more of these.

>30yrs re maintenance/no underlying mortgage. I believe the building/s sold their air rights to the Turken Foundation, which is building a sliver building on East 41st street to house Turkish students. It’s believed that the Turkish government funded the project.

Keith,
How much did they get for any air rights sale?

>Keith- would also like to know that. Since Turken paid $15 million for the one story building on the corner and $4 million for the 4 story building next to it, I would think they would have paid well for the air rights

My understanding is they paid about 11 million for the air rights.

Just to be clear, the Coop got $11 million?

Yes.

In this case it’s the 3 buildings in the Hardwicke Hall complex with 200 apartments that got the money

So it’s not just 324 East 41st street which reaped the bonanza

>lz3- the maintenance went down because the underlying mortgage was paid off.

Thanks PH. Makes sense but still pretty impressive considering that property taxes have been raised substantially in the past 6 years.

Did anyone go to see this apartment during the Sunday open house? And if you did can you share your thoughts?

I did not but I sent the link to a friend. Out of curiosity, he and his girlfriend went and this is what he wrote to me in a text message: "beautiful reno on the kitchen and it opens up the whole place. pre-war flair but modern if that makes sense. Beamed ceilings were a great touch. Light is excellent, place is really well-maintained and the tudor city neighborhood seemed great. We hadn't really been in this area much and it seems like a great place with some nice gardens/playgrounds." When I asked about the space he said: "really good. not a lot of wasted space at all. our rental is about 1100 sq foot and it seemed just as large as that."

I was really tempted to go see it, but I was afraid I'd love it. I need to be on UWS and I didn't want to be tempted to switch neighborhoods.

Another open house. I am going this time!

Say hello to Norman and tell him you're one of the streeteasy legions!

Say hello to Norman and tell him you're one of the streeteasy legions!

Contract out 9 days ago with 5 backups and still having open houses?

Think contract is for his 62nd street listing.

Someone asked earlier in this thread about our listing at 201 East 62nd Street #13B, which is now fully executed.

FYI: we are cancelling all public open houses, proceeding with appointment only. for the two open houses we have scheduled tomorrow, time frame will remain but it will be by appointment. This should be updated in streeteasy now.

Keith Burkhardt
TBG