Data point for high end segment

A penthouse above Le Perigord? Oui, monsieur!

https://ny.eater.com/2013/3/1/6473829/aging-clientele-and-excellent-sole-meuniere-at-le-perigord

Le Perigord closed a few years ago, well before the pandemic but well after we moved to the neighborhood. We never went there, not even once.

Re that little PH at 425 E51, that will be an interesting watch. I feel like it is in no-man’s land in this market - too expensive for the frugal empty nesters, but below what less frugal empty nesters “need” in terms of retirement space. Same with midtwon professionals. 227 E57 18BF just went into contract (list of around 1.4); I feel like that is the minimum for what I consider part of this little club.

Let Perigord closed? No kidding? Somebody better tell the broker. It's in the listing.

That’s hilarious.

I just read the listing. Degrezia IS a neighborhood gem.

In fairness, it's not always easy to tell if Le Perigord is open or closed.

Maybe it will be replaced with a funeral parlor?

Now now, no need to get snippy. One of the positives of our neighborhood is that you feel very safe because there is always an ambulance/EMS vehicle visible attending in the hood at any given moment. When we decided to live there, some of our much cooler NY friends told us we would never fit it - the husband and wife argued about whether it was called the “newly married or almost buried” neighborhood or the “newly wed or almost dead” neighborhood. Either way, those who populate our neighborhood are my peeps. Much like others who gravitate to NYC, you find your neighborhood and can’t imagine living in any other part of the city. (Well, maybe you can imagine, but you don’t move b/c the neighborhood has become your “home.”)

That's all great, but do the coops there organize group discounts on subscriptions to Life Alert?

You could always move across town to be near/above another old-line eatery:

Nearby: https://streeteasy.com/building/the-atelier/5fw (actually like this one a lot)

Above, similar to above: https://streeteasy.com/building/hotel-des-artistes/914
Above, much fancier, with an exhibitionists bathroom: https://streeteasy.com/building/hotel-des-artistes/ph909

Don't know if Life Alert works in that part of town.

For $12m, I better get a discount at the restaurant. Else I'm going to need that Life Alert.

@Aaron2 - that was our original neighborhood in NY because we used The Phillips Club as our pied-a-terre from 2009-2011. I love that neighborhood for its proximity to the park, the UWS comedy clubs, and Barney Greengrass, but I actually prefer our sleepy current neighborhood for day-to-day living, BUT had a modest apartment in one of the CPW coops been convenient to my husband's office (I knew I could sell him on NY by getting him within walking distance to the office), that could have easily been the neighborhood that we settled on as our "home." But, to the point: Cafe des Artistes has closed and another restaurant we have not been to has take its place. Back in our personal Phillips Club days, Cafe des Artistes and Picholine were our "go to" restaurants for entertaining friends. Both have since closed.

325 East 57th Street PHA - sold at $2,500,000 so seller hung tough

@ph41 - Here is a new fun one to watch: https://streeteasy.com/building/322-east-57-street-new_york/23a?card=1
Thoughts?

I always think of that as "The Frank Gifford Building," but...
https://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/15/realestate/15habi.html

https://gothamist.com/arts-entertainment/nostalgic-look-back-chic-history-57th-street

I'm really of mixed opinions about 322. I love double height living rooms and these are some of the best. I like that part of town. The building exterior is severe, but elegant. There's generally a good balance of 'public' and 'private' with good separation. But, some of the floorplans are, um, challenging, in my view. You have to be ready to embrace the oddities (in this case: LR/DR on separate floors, 2nd bedroom only accessible via common hallway [not that I think you'd ever see another soul in it]). That specific spot on 57th is a general traffic nightmare with the bridge entrance practically across the street. Still... for that space, I'd live on the 2nd floor. At one point, both 2/3A and 2/3B were on the market together -- *that* would be an amazing combination.

(The Gothamist article also missed that Jacob Javits lived at 322.)

While the Sutton scene is not for me, I kinda love that 322 floor plan. Weeknights at home, cooking & eating could be a private upstairs affair. When you have company sprawled across the LR, nothing says "host is a BOSS" like parading a tray of hors d’oeuvres down the main staircase while the kids are safely stashed at the other end of the house.

@30yrs and @Aaron2 - Thank you for the additional color on the building; it was not previously on my radar, but it is interesting indeed.

Random note mildly related to another active thread: When I ask my parents today when their marriage went bath, both agree that everything was awesome when they lived on E57th street, but that fissures started appearing when they moved to Westchester County in the mid-sixties. For my part, I have had great bonding conversations with those from that period of my own childhood (as well as with newer acquaintances who lived in that time and space) over Ang Lee's "The Ice Storm."

*when their marriage went bad

@RichardBerg - Welcome to the discussion! Always great to have a new active member who clearly loves and follows NY real estate.

I did not have time earlier today to real all the way to the end of The Gothamist article. Needless to say, I loved the last line: "The better question to be asking oneself these days is perhaps not, ‘does anyone go to Midtown’ but did you get there in time to reclaim it as your discovery." Time will tell. I don't overly care how it all ends up; all I know is that the city felt like "home" to me the first time I recall setting foot in it.

Seems like you could buy that hallway and put a dumbwaiter from the kitchen to the lower floor, or a wet bar down there, or both.

Congrats to Keith on 200 E57th 11c (discussed in detail earlier in this thread) going into contract yesterday!

Another one to watch in the 2/2 PH midtown east market: https://streeteasy.com/building/320-east-57-street-new_york/phe

I wonder if the type of people who see themselves "Beekman/Turtle Bay Penthouse People" find that living room and kitchen acceptable?

Living room and kitchen just part of the problem. That wh

Living room and kitchen just part of the problem. That whole layout is off

I like the existing FP better than the proposed alternate. We could definitely work with the existing FP. Upper floor would be peaceful private master suite retreat while lower floor would have office/kitchen/living and dining.

Sorry MCR - most people would disagree with you on this one.
They will be very lucky if they get $1.8M for this

I also find the price well beyond what it would be worth to me. I would put it in my personal 1,650,000 range, but I have been surprised time and again by how much more others have been willing to spend on apartments that close well above what I could understand paying for them. This apartment does not seem so much as a “penthouse” with all that moniker implies; more like an interesting quirky apartment with some great outdoor space.

>MCR - put in an offer at $1,600,000. You might be surprised.
We have friends who live in Newport Beach who tho not really looking were shown a house built in 2015 for $15,000,000. Our friend said not interested. The broker said “make an offer”.
Offered $8,000,000, and the offer was accepted!
He’s currently gut renovating and feels he will still be ahead even with $2-3,000,000 in renovation cost

And you wouldn’t have to turn the place upside down!

And you wouldn’t have to turn the place upside down!

I think a problem with pricing this unit is that you go below $2 million and people start squawking about the maintenance. Not that the maintenance is very high for a unit like this, it's just high for sub-$2 million buyers. But I also think that's becoming a problem for buyers in general to larger units in this neighborhood: the prices look attractive but at the end of the day between total costs, Coop Boards, etc. they can't get their hands/heads around a deal.

Good point. The monthly cost at 25% down would be something like $11k, which just isn't worth it considering the awkward layout. The maintenance is $3 foot, and you're living in one of the worst parts of Manhattan, on a busy street at the bridge entrance. No thanks, even if it was a condo.

Btw, I would squawk about the monthlies regardless of the price.

If it were in the Beekman cul-de-sac I would be tempted, but I can’t abide 300 block of E57th.

Re monthlies, I hear you; we are some of the very few (verging on “the only?”) who would not balk at those monthlies for a small place in subprime Manhattan. The monthlies in our current place are obscene due to 1925 share allocation which valued view and higher floor over size well beyond anything that would be palatable to most buyers. I just happen to be one of those who will actually pay a premium to have less space with those attributes. All it takes is one freaky buyer like me to relieve some hopeless seller of their white elephant.

@30yrs - And I completely agree re maintenance and coop structure being deal killers for many families tempted by the low prices of great family apartments in the neighborhood. I like the families in our building (even though they are paradigm whiners) and understand their wanting revamp the service level to reset maintenance. Much as I don’t like it, I don’t see any other path forward for our neighborhood. Maintenance on many of the buildings compares to that of landlease buildings. I am dying to see what our neighborhood looks like in 10 years (that greenway will materialize any year now!!)

And @George - I know it is a non-starter for you, but I wish you would get together with some of your like-minded friends and take over one of these buildings. At this point, I now want someone to accelerate the process because otherwise we are in for a slow, wildly inefficient death.

I would, just to annoy the blue hairs, but I'm busy working on our house in Nowhere. It's not just real estate going gangbusters but also construction and contractors. Fortunately it might slow a bit bc nothing is selling ... because there is no inventory available to buy.

https://nypost.com/2020/10/15/new-york-coronavirus-exodus-fuels-maine-real-estate-boom/

Ultimately it will be a slow death in NYC coops, but at some point there will be a revival. For now, few people are experiencing real pain, except the young people who bought since 2005, but they're all pains to deal with.

Maine!! Nice.

They're not making any more land so every neighborhood will come back, in a cycle.

I just took a quick look at Maine out of curiosity. What has the world come to when McMansions have surrounded Prout's Neck? And on NY coops, I just had regular call with one of the residents of our building who has been there throughout, and I'm not sure Titanic is the right analogy for our building and those of its ilk; maybe more like Ghost Ship. Going on its 7th month with only 20% occupancy . . ..

My co-op building (200+ units) is still running at about 50% occupancy (slight increase as a few people have trickled back over the last month). 13 units currently on the market, which is as high as I've ever seen it (6 prices lowered from initial ask, 1 increased).

Nothing is moving in my building, sales or rentals. The pricing does not appear realistic.

Another new one to watch: https://streeteasy.com/building/35-sutton-place-new_york/phd

Photos make the light look extraordinary as well as the ceiling height.

Yikes: Am I reading the transaction history correctly? Did the sellers of 35 Sutton Place phd just buy it in February and now they are selling it in October? This must be one of those "owner was transferred to London" stories.

Isn't it always that story, MCR, isn't it always?

Couldn't help myself and just looked it up. Feb buyer/current seller appears to be a dentist or oral surgeon. Not likely transferred to London. Ouch.

I realize it's not "the penthouse" but I think 19A is going to make that sale difficult.

Not with $9450 of maintenance.

Oh yes, we discussed 19A at some length earlier in the thread. I would go for the PH over 19A because the PH is smaller and the maintenance is lower, but my preferring something is a telltale sign that it is doomed in the greater market.

PHD over 19A, even with facing the expense and hassle of ripping out that nasty floor job in the LR & DR, and a less attractive kitchen space.

It needs quite a bit of work, I would say.

Here's another one (nothing about this one appeals to me): https://streeteasy.com/building/1-sutton-place-south-new_york/12d

Inventory in the little niche I am watching continues to pile up at prices that do not tempt me.

That's a big price increase from the last sale.

Right? They mention a gut renovation in the description, but whatever they did certainly does not justify the price increase per my preferences.

New Sutton Place PH. Discuss amongst yourselves.

https://streeteasy.com/building/1-sutton-place-south-new_york/ph

I wish I had Malcolm McDowell's phone number.

Hmm... If it's the real stuff and I think it is, there are 2 Lichtensteins, a Warhol, a Rauschenberg, an Oldenburg, at least 1 Indiana, and what looks like an Opie. Along with a whole bunch of more modern stuff that I'm not up on. Who's the owner?

I think having to walk through the kitchen to get to the bedroom wing is a drawback -- I'll have to look for the prior floorplan to see how it was arranged -- I remember it as also problematic, but better.

@inonada - Thanks for highlighting this one. I am going to have to look up current owner and this will certainly be a fun one to watch. Maybe a UN Mission buys it? No idea what 1 Sutton Place's admission criteria are these days, but they are going to have to evolve to move this one if they are stuck in a bygone era.

@aaron2, and the Koons on the roof. Owners are a hedgie and a fashion designer. Vogue article on the place here:

https://archive.vogue.com/article/2002/9/planet-perry

ali r.
upstairs realty

Ah, *that* Perry. "Former hedige" is probably the better term. Had to shut down his fund after clients fled (though provided 10% returns for many years), and didn't make many new friends over his handling of Barney's. They sold their '80s McMansion in Palm Beach earlier this year. Maybe they're in need of cash.

I think there are 3 Coop sales over $20 million in the last year out of almost 10X that many listings.

30M and you're still in a coop...

35 Sutton Place PHA in contract.

New interesting listing at 35 Sutton Place 1/2C - that is outdoor space I could get behind and the maintenance strikes me as a steal for that size alt with outdoor space (but I admit that my building’s maintenance has probably left me with a skewed sense of what is reasonable in that department).

That's pretty sweet. I'd be happy with just the lower floor.

1/2C is a nice listing. Great separation between public/private/service space. Maint. does seem high, but between the outdoor space and a really nice layout, I could see it. I wonder how much bridge/FDR noise there is? I foresee lots of noise from the workyard under the bridge on the N side of 59th. And noise in the BRs from the service entrance directly below. (Google streetview on 59th St). That may be a dealbreaker (and the lawsuits referenced elsewhere).

Also, probably needs new bathrooms and kitchen. Limited photos imply that it was given a cleaning and a basic paint job to get it past 'estate condition'. Some prospective buyers will complain because they won't be able to have an egg shaped tub in front of the bathroom window.

For $3M I'd want a living room more than 14' wide. (The open upper level makes it look bigger than it actually is).

Also, "soaring 15.5' ceiling" implies that the ceilings in all other rooms are less than 8'.

35 Sutton Place 19A now in contract.

2 Sutton Place PHF (2/2.5 last ask of 2.9 with maintenance of $4600) just went into contract. Had been on the market since 11/18 with an original ask of $4.1. Last sale was in December of 2009 at 1,725,000 (200 over ask at that time).

https://streeteasy.com/building/plaza-400/32p
Another 2/2 in Sutton Place that went into contract at a respectable last ask. I should have named this thread "Midtown Far East still desirable for affluent empty nesters?"

https://streeteasy.com/building/322-east-57-street-new_york/23a?card=1
In contract.

Weird, that Plaza 400 apartment above shows a Washer/Dryer on the floor plan, even though many other apartments in the building state in descriptions state that WDs are not allowed. (Example: https://streeteasy.com/building/plaza-400/6l)

By the way, why would a building have a blanket no pets policy? I understand about dogs, but why would a cat or a hamster be problematic? What about gold fish?

At the risk of sounding crabby (I'm not, really), there's a lot to like about no pets buildings, all else being equal: if you're allergic to dog or cat hair; if you don't like the smell of uncleaned litter boxes; if you don't like overly friendly or overly aggressive animals in an enclosed elevator (i.e., poorly trained owners); if you don't like noise (barks, yowls, nails scrabbling on the floor); if you don't want additional bugs attracted to the food supply that is left out; a no pets building is the place for you. Of course, if you want a pet in a no-pet building, I'm sure there are many mental health practitioners that will be happy to document your need for a therapy pet.

Dogs are the first to be discriminated against (principally on noise considerations), but cats and hamsters can be just as filthy, in their own way. And would you want to live below the guy with the 300 gallon salt water tank when it starts leaking on a Friday night and he's gone away for the 3-day weekend?

New interesting watch: https://streeteasy.com/building/434-east-52-street-new_york/phtower
I was not aware John Lennon ever had a place in the neighborhood. If only this apartment were listed at about $3M less than the current ask, I'd check it out.

I thought I misread this;

https://www.wsj.com/articles/220-central-park-south-resale-fetches-33-million-asking-price-11619182978

There's something that doesn't smell right about that sale, but I'm no expert. What do you think, Keith?

I'm not sure. Either way it's only one data point, so in the big scheme of things it doesn't mean much.

Keith, as you were punk rocking away in your first career in the 80’s, Igor (the buyer at 220 CPS) was doing this as his first career:

https://youtu.be/5MyHnlIRYL4