35 Sutton Place...coming soon

This is the theoretical reason for coops being stricter than condos.
"And then coops even cover shortages to maintain their right of seizure?

The "5x higher" on small numbers thing reminds me of some of those scam at-home DNA cancer screeners like 23&Me where they tell you that you have a "6x higher chance of X cancer because of DNA marker Y", but they are talking about 0.1% vs 0.6%. Really their business model is just to collect your DNA data for resale for scientific research.

Apparently they are now offering to tell you if your DNA has indications for anxiety now, lol.
I think a 60 second phone conversation with a halfway competent counselor will uncover that more quickly. I'd imagine having an NYC zip code is more predictive of anxiety than any DNA marker..

@300 - I don't have insight as to what % of time coops cover a tax delinquency, but I'd imagine it would be greater than 50% right?
Putting some "% covered by coops" estimates against the final reported delinquency.. how much has all that coop scrutiny actually lowered the actual payer delinquency rate?
Best case from 3.7% to 1.1%? Possibly as little as 3.7% to 3.2%?

Further - tax delinquency as a proxy for maintenance delinquency is interesting but not 1-1 correlated. Consider that maintenance pays monthly and you will get chased by board/managing agent pretty quickly whereas taxes are paid quarterly. It takes the city like 2 years to seize property for unpaid taxes right?

I'd imagine that delinquency on coops would naturally be lower not simply because the gates are higher, but because the coop has the right to seize the unit in court. That stronger legal right might be a much bigger factor down the road of ownership than whatever gate you put up at purchase time.

Would be interesting if any management companies actually have data on this, or anyone with experience can share relative delinquency rates they've seen while sitting on boards of condos & coops.

My take is "primary residence" requirement significantly improves the delinquency at a price point of say more $1mm. There is also huge time suck, brain damage, legal and administrative cost of non-paying shareholders in a coop. So no one can fault coops from being conservative in approval. How much more conservative is open to debate. 2 years in mortage + maintenance in liquid assets and 25% down should be more than sufficient with income requirements.

@300 - by my math that still puts a buyer at needing north of 40% liquid at closing in your hypothetical minimally conservative / lenient coop..

I get why you might demand that if you can get away with it, and its better than the 40% down + 2 years mortgage/maintenance which is basically 55%+ .

Don't forget the original subject of this thread was a building/neighborhood that tends to have a lot of estate or near estate condition apartments, so the buyer in many cases may need to plan for another 20% of renovation expenses.

So 40-55% liquid + 20% renovation ..
Haven't you just re-invented restrictive coops?

$2mm coop in estate condition buyer plan to fully renovate. If the buyer has less than $1.2mm ($500k down, $200-250k carry for 2 years, another $400k for reno which naturally depends on the scope), you have no business buying a gut reno needing coop and it is only reasonable that rest of the owners of the coop don't want to underwrite your risk. You can always choose to buy a $3mm new condo which will only need $750k.

To add, if the board is approving a buyer of estate condition coop based on financials alone (forget race, connections, pedigree etc, which really should be eliminated via some coop law which likely will never come), they better make sure that the buyer understands what reno takes and has financial capability to renovate. Otherwise, the reno will drag out for ever and become very inconvenient to others in the coop. Condo have less of a reno issue as most of them are livable even if the buyer chooses to renovate.

Any for the estate heirs who want to sell and feel that the reno cost related liqudity requirement is burdensome, they can renovate and then sell reducing cash requirements from the buyer.

@300 - and isn't this where all the financial shenanigans start to come into play, defeating the purpose?

Your hypothetical board would require $1.2M liquidity for a $2M + $400K reno apartment.

If the sellers instead contract priced it at $2.4M with a $400k credit for the renovation, the buyers would only need ~$900k liquid ($600k down + $300k carry for 2 years)..

Your hypothetical board would be happy that they'd been so smart & conservative, the seller would end up in the same place, and the buyer would have reduced their required liquidity by 25% at the stroke of a pen?

Seems silly to me, but I'm a poor outerboro condo guy.

Is the bank financing 75% of $2.4mm or $2mm? Just lay out the transaction numbers. Perhaps Krolik can educate us both.

If 75% of $2mm, are you getting $400k from the seller making your cash $900k + $400k. Only arbitrage is if the bank financed 75% based on $2.4mm - essentially financing your reno cost of $400k. Perhaps I am wrong but Krolik can layout the numbers.

@300 - Yes, financing the reno in a way that is a mutually agreeable psychologically for all involved.
Loan structured in a way that is ok with the lender and the board. Probably need some private bank lending product to facilitate the roll-in of the reno.

Scenario would be:
$2.4M contract price to satisfy board
$1.8M loan (implying the renovation roll-in)
$600k out (25% down on the contract price to satisfy board)
$300k liquid (2 years monthlies to satisfy board)
$400k in (pay off the reno portion of the loan or whatever really)

You end up with lower up front liquidity requirement, a closing price the board is happy with, and the renovation financing can be paid down immediately with the closing credit so no interest expense.

Anyway money isn't real, it's all just bits in a database.

Not a mortgage banker (perhaps StreetSmart can weigh in here) but I don't think mortgage lenders are going to go for a reno credit that is 16% of purchase price.

And speaking of stuffy co-ops and their requirements:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/11/style/alice-mason-dead.html

"Vanderbilt money, as it happened, was too new for certain communities in the 1950s..."

That is quite a hypothetical - there is no way for two years of monthlies to satisfy the board of 35 Sutton, so the numbers don't work (I expect Ali already knows that). Therefore, it doesn't reduce upfront liquidity nearly as much as you would think.

I am still waiting for Krolik to poke some holes in Steve's calcs and how one can fool the coop liquidity requirements.

@Ali - thanks for the datapoint. I'm genuinely curious what the guidelines are.

I see stories of sellers covering all sorts of things as credits at closing that easily cross 5%, so I'd be curious where the line is.
And people are clearly playing closing credit games to gin up contract prices to appears boards..
I'm not sure 5% is that much in the scheme of things when a unit is overpriced but board won't budge.

Keith reported in the other active thread about a new dev: "covering all closing costs including Mansion tax and they're paying brokers a 5% commission, which equals a pretty substantial rebate."

To me this reads as ~6% closing costs + extra 2% to buyers broker..

Not the best source but -
https://www.rocketmortgage.com/learn/seller-concessions#:~:text=The%20limit%20for%20conventional%20loans,can%20contribute%20up%20to%209%25.

Conventional Loans
The limit for conventional loans depends on how much you’re putting down:

If your down payment is less than 10%, the seller can contribute up to 3%.

If your down payment is 10% – 25%, the seller can contribute up to 6%.

If your down payment is more than 25%, the seller can contribute up to 9%.

There is no such thing as a tax delinquency on a Coop. Because Coops units don't pay taxes. They pay maintenance; the only entity which pays Real Estate taxes is the Coop itself. And it pays in one lump sum covering the entire building.

But a very important point:
When a Coop unit gets foreclosed on, the maintenance is always in first position regarding liens. The back maintenance must be paid in full before any closing.

In condominiums, the Common Charges are subordinate to the first mortgage. The back common charges get wiped out if there is no equity on top of the first mortgage.

A while back I was doing the deal at 420 West 23rd Street. For some reason the Sellers attorney took it upon himself to object to how low the price was. I explained to him that it was because the building had bad financials. He got indignant and said "Condominiums can't have bad financials."

Well, he got it wrong. There were so many units in foreclosure that one full years income for the entire building was going to be erased. This is one area where Condominiums are significantly more risky than Coops.

Whether or not the post-closing liquidity is real, or of great utility since it is not enforceable post-purchase, is a bit beside the point. Coop and condo owners are taking on the credit risks of their neighbors. Why would you not want to minimize that risk as much as the market would bear, and favor buyers with less risk? If I could get away with it, I would make owners post a T-Bond as security with the purchase. Plenty of other common ownership investment vehicles require owners to post capital that is returned on exit.

The risks, at least for larger buildings, are perhaps less so defaulting on monthly maintenance, rather than resisting capital improvements or defaulting on assessments. Think about buildings like on lower fifth avenue that needed multi-million dollar repairs, or a building on park avenue that now basically is replacing its entire facade. These owners had to come up with hundred(s) of thousands of dollars each in a short period. For smaller buildings, maintenance defaults are a serious risk. I have no experience on default rates, but the prospect of having to make up a material percentage of your budget by assessing other owners is daunting. As a real world example of 30yrs point, there are only ten units in my condo, and a few years ago a large unit went into foreclosure that was 20% of our common interest. The owner worked out a deal with his creditors, but for a while when he might lose the unit he stopped paying the common charges, and if the foreclosure happened we would get nothing because the lien (a failed investment) was worth 3x his $10MM apartment. Mind you, this was a person of some fame a few decades ago, who was worth mid-eight figures, but his credit risk was ours.

@nyc_sport this is why I like escrow as tool for making boards comfortable with marginal buyers. (though it wouldn't have helped in the case you outlined, since presumably nobody would have asked your possible defaulter to post anything.)

Sport, I hear you on this. But the other side is that it makes it more difficult for young families with many years of income (potentially growing) to come to afford housing in NYC where coops are a major part of housing. In addition, in the absence of written public criteria for board approval, it can be used an excuse for all kinds of discrimination.

"Why would you not want to minimize that risk as much as the market would bear, and favor buyers with less risk?"

@300 - I think we are in agreement here. Opaque financial requirements leave wiggle room for discrimination. Financial requirements are burdensome enough to make it difficult for young families to afford housing. If we make it hard to buy family sized units until people are over 40, it is not great from a household formation perspective.

But.. from perspective of the coop board, it is perfectly logical to be as demanding as the market will bear, for their own protection.

I was trying to point out that its the structure of coops (maintenance has first lien / taxes are paid essentially in escrow by coop) that is doing most of the job of making them safer.

300 posted some stats about relative tax default rates, but as I & 30 pointed out.. coop taxes are essentially an insured/escrow type payment since the management is paying it out. I put in some estimates of what the actual payer default rate might be, but we'd need some insiders with real data to know.

Sport inadvertently reinforces the point that high entry gates don't protect you from an owner being in bad finances 5/10/15+ years later. The legal structure of the coop having first lien is what makes them safer in those situations than a condo, not the down payment or liquidity requirements. Larger buildings are always more insulated, and a 10 unit building is always going to have high variable cost risks.

Personally to me a lack of transparent written financial and other criteria for coop approval is a far bigger issue than actual financial requirements. Let coops allow no financing but write everything down and evaluation by an independent firm rather than by the board.

There are plenty of rental options for families as Nada has pointed out several times renting has been financially beneficial in the last 10-15 years vs same downpayment amount invested in SPX.

BTW, discrimination based on the financial capacity seems to only criteria which is legal.

There is little real reason for opaque financial requirements other than to leave room to discriminate for illegal reasons without saying so. Write it down, see who passes.

Most of the non-financial reasons you see given for the board package/interview process skate very close to, if not over the line into illegal discrimination of one form or the other.

Purely economically renting is often better than buying and I am with nada on that one.

But I think if anyone is swayed by the intangibles of ownership, its people with kids. Uprooting childcare/schooling/social routines, and how challenging it is to move apartments on short notice with little ones in tow. Not to mention not worrying about fines/fees from the extra wear&tear kids put on apartments. So I get it for sure.

I spoke with a listing agent for the subject building, was told 1-2x purchase price liquid post close.

So basically people over 40 who want to buy a modest apartment relative to their assets.

"skate very close to" is a sophisticated way of saying, "doesn't"

@rinette

Let's not kid ourselves.. phrases like "people in more restrictive buildings want their neighbors to be like them" / "lifestyle" / "they want to check your class and behavior" are basically Fair Housing Act violations if they were done anywhere outside a coop & without the no-explanation-given rejections allowed by the opacity of the coop approval process.

"basically" is a word used to avoid saying "not actually".

This is coming on a full month, where's the listing?

@300 - re: "BTW, discrimination based on the financial capacity seems to only criteria which is legal."

It'll be interesting how broadly / how long this remains true, as you see legal developments in other adjacent areas ..

https://gothamist.com/news/gov-hochuls-budget-bans-insurance-discrimination-against-low-income-tenants

"prohibiting insurance companies from refusing to cover buildings based on the tenants’ source of income. The plan would also prohibit insurers from asking property owners how much tenants earn and whether their buildings contain income-restricted apartments where low- and middle-income tenants pay affordable rents."

I mean I get the good intentions, but activists/pols really don't think through the 2nd/3rd order consequences here.

Being unable to measure building risk based on say, average rent:income ratios, income restrictions, protected lease types (RC/RS/etc), and housing vouchers..
These all seem to factor pretty directly into how risky a building is to insure as they limit the landlords ability to raise rent to cover maintenance costs, evict problem tenants, and therefore.. actually do appropriate maintenance vs letting building fall into disrepair.

How long until we ban car insurance companies from charging parents of teen male drivers more? lol.

Rinette, waiting on the painter to give an estimate.

Steve, lava zones might be next. Is it really fair to charge those living in an active volcano's flow area more? I mean, there have been zero eruptions in the last 4 months.

(This is tongue-in-cheek: the income thing seems more reasonable.)

https://www.wsj.com/real-estate/not-even-molten-lava-can-cool-this-hot-housing-market-471c6212

He was sick of the traffic, wildfires and car thefts, he said. Upon retiring, his mother sold her house and paid cash for a 1-acre lot with two units in Leilani Estates, surrounded by avocado and citrus trees. Lava insurance rates in lava zone 1, the riskiest area that encompasses the entire subdivision, were so high that they simply stopped paying for it, he said.

He mostly shrugs off the dangers, reasoning that they would be reckoning with fires and earthquakes on top of a lower quality of life back in Southern California.

“It’s just paradise,” said Edwards, who now drives limousines part-time. “The rest of the world doesn’t exist when you’re here.”

front_porch, what color are they painting?

@front_porch Congratulations!

The suspense is killing me

I'm thinking it's not eggshell.

Sorry Rinette. White. There was a lot of wallpaper to strip, so it's been a big job. Brought the painters some light fixtures yesterday, though, and they were close to done.

ali r.
{upstairs realty}

nobody thinks about the trouble removing the wallpaper ....

oh believe me, the contractors did. Two competing bids to do the job, each over $20K.

lol

How big is the apartment? How many hours is it expected to take?

I have removed wallpaper (multiple layers, and in one case going back to before 1900), and it's a tremendous PITA. I feel for you and the contractors.

I'm really excited for this listing...

10B and 16B still not moving.

I am seeing this post about 4 months late, but responding on the HDFC's. I don't frequently read posts outside my coverage areas - and Sutton Place is not an area I typically cover. Yes, I have had such disgust with HDFC's- I can't work with them anymore. Seriously, some of these owners are so mis-informed they call 311 on themselves to complain about issues they should be addressing internally. Between the mismanagement, the inside dealing, bad actors, etc - it's insane. I do believe discrimination exists in some of these buildings. These days, I have no issue with the HDC variarants of the HDFC world that allow for right of first refusal only (a handful of buildings at best), but these days I management of my brokerage sends agents my way to consult with them when they have an HDFC client. My prior career was rather varied working in many different areas within capital markets- as I was a training manager that covered many different areas of these firms- but one common theme was risk management- and that is exactly how I discuss these situations with clients in the past, and the agents in my firm that come to me for guidance. I want them to understand these are higher risk situations- over and above what you will encounter in a market rate co-op. 30yrs makes an excellent point about buyers not even being able to obtain the purchase application or other standard procedures you would have in a market rate sale.

Buyers often get stars in their eyes when they see these apartments at below market rate prices- and typically don't understand the tremendous challenges with many of these buildings.

⬆️This

Listing up! First showing today, to a potential buyer who estimated the reno costs at half of the low end of my reno cost range. Curious to hear everyone else's sense of what they'd spend on a five-room, 1,700-sf gut.

Lowend keeping bathrooms and kitchen the same
Size. No central AC. Could be as low as $200 per sq ft. Plus carry and trouble.

sale floorplan as on 18th floor?

35 Sutton Place reminds me of 924 West End Avenue
https://streeteasy.com/building/924-west-end-avenue-new_york/21
https://streeteasy.com/talk/discussion/48154-how-much-needed-to-spend-to-make-habitable

Rinette look at 5F.

@Ali - Heads up, you may have inverted the 60% financing / 40% down inputs on the listings as listing text says building allows 60% financing but the financing calculator widget defaults to 60% down (rather than 40%)

Guessing this is some backend numeric input to streeteasy that's easily fixed

GLWS!

I really like the floorplan -- this is the sort of thing I'm on the lookout for when I ponder more space. I think it's a $400-500k reno for upper-good (as opposed to lower-excellent) finishes/equipment. Will the building permit exterior vented dryer (through upper part of window frame, & replace with differently sized window)? I think I've seen this in other windows in the building. Floors aren't in the greatest shape, and I'd rather put down new hardwood parquet than the cheap faux-wood stuff you typically see, so may go over $500k (Am I the last person in NYC who likes parquet?).

@Ali - Congrats on getting it up. I have the same thoughts as both Steve and Aaron. This apartment would be in the sweet spot for me, and I could renovate it to my satisfaction of lower-good for less than the amount that would be required to bring it to its full potential. I don't think the buyer who has $500K to spend on renovation on top of $1M to purchase will go for this apartment because it strikes me as limited by its lack of view. Accordingly, I am thinking whoever buys this apartment is not going dress it to the nines. I am thinking someone who (1) needs the space in the neighborhood and (2) has limited time and funds for renovation is your buyer, but time will tell.

Thanks everybody for the nice comments, and for pointing out things in the listing that need to get fixed -- @steve123, I appreciate the help and I'm on those tweaks! SE keeps kicking my floorplan out; my guess is that since I had my service draw it and they watermarked it, I need to get my designer to take the watermark off and then I can reload it.

In the meantime, floorplan is close to 18Fs -- the closets in the main bedroom are configured differently, there's a pantry closet in the kitchen, built-ins in the second bedroom, and the second bath has been renovated with a large shower --- but it's quite similar. If anyone is interested, it's probably worth taking a look at both #14F and #18F.

I can see, @Rinette, why 924 WEA would seem similar, but other than the fact that they're both big guts, I think they're different. I don't like talking about the fine points of other people's listings -- I wouldn't want Kathleen to do it to me, i don't think -- but 924 WEA is on a much lower floor with less of a view (y'all tell me but I think the east views of the river/Roosevelt Island are pretty nice), the different technology of the Edwardian era vs the Kennedy era, (SE says 1960 but my gut says 1961) which shows notably in the fact that Sutton Place has big 1960s picture windows and giant closets. In 924's favor it's bigger, a seven-room instead of a five. Sutton Place is a bigger building, so for roughly the same maintenance you're getting more service, I think. And I find the neighborhoods rather different. Bottom line, If you're interested in Sutton Place, come see it!!

As to who's going to buy it, so far the first calls have fallen into the categories of "people in Westchester who want to move back to Manhattan" (and have time to renovate) and "people in the neighborhood who have been waiting for fresh meat" (who would generally spend a little less on the reno.)

MCR, if you want to buy it I want to sell it to you, though I'd have to check with the board about the dog situation -- IIRC you have two dogs, and I don't know how welcoming they'd be to the second dog. (Despite what one of the non-Streeteasy websites says, I think one doggo, on the small side, no problem.)

Ditto Aaron, though a technical W/D question is going to take me a little while to get answered, because there are people I can ask but I don't necessarily think they're the *actual authorities,* and I'd like to try to get a ruling that I think will hold. (You would absolutely want to replace the floors, thanks for saying that diplomatically.)

I said on the 924 comment thread that I thought one could certainly spend $750K -- I think that's the case with 14F too, though I think it's more likely you're looking at $400k-$500K, which seems to be about where 300 Mercer ends up.

I owe the 'Net some new material -- I need to get the West view shot up, and get my photog back in to get a photo of the building's common outdoor space, and then one of my callers told me some website said the unit has seven bathrooms so I have to find and fix that back to the actual two-and-a-half.
But rn I want to say I'm grateful for all the comments.

ali r.
{upstairs realty}

^^ @ steve123, I reserve the right to make mistakes, but in this particular battle of "my listing copy" vs. "StreetEasy" it's the StreetEasy calculator that's wrong. Thanks again for the flag; I'll report it to them.

ali r.

Had never seen 'IIRC' but I figured it out in an instant. And I didn't even graduate from Duke.

Ali,

Are the bathrooms completely shot as in either non-functional or tiles coming off?

What if someone just redid the floors with wood parquet tiles (keeping thickness of the old tiles so that they don't need to adjust the door bottoms) before move-in, get new basic stainless steel appliaces, and perhaps put some new cabinets and countertops in the kitchen over time? You can get done for under $100k clean-up without re-doing the bathrooms, no electrical etc.

After all, it is a serious discount property on a per sq ft basis.

@Rinette - Ha! I had not seen it before and also figured it out (though I'm not sure how graduating from Duke helped me in that regard). I also figured out GLWS! from Steve above.

@Ali - It would have been in my sweet zone, but Mr. MCR's "must haves" included a better view. Lack of view was the death of my preferred apartment that we sold in our current building, although I will admit that I do enjoy the view from the new one. I will check out the photos again to get a better sense of the east view of the river and Roosevelt Island; it is the living room view that Mr. MCR cares the most about.

P.S. - But I cannot imagine parting with our current NYC apartment for another in NYC. That ship has sailed.

did you graduate from Duke?

I did, though I still have that recurring dream I am told that many have where I am one credit short. Never ceases to surprise me when I wake up that I did actually graduate. I don't know why I don't have the dream about law school or high school; just college.

well, Seinfeld mocked Harvard during his Duke speech.

300, I have photos up of all three bathrooms, I think. If one were trying to do "less," I would redo the entire kitchen nicely (possibly keeping the current tile floors), put a W/D in, redo one of the bathrooms, and do new floors. That's probably ... $150K? ... and would shine it right up.

I think that makes sense for this building and price point per sq ft. For kitchen, put some good Ikea cabinets, quartz countertops and good stainless steel appliances. Basic Bosch would do. No subzero, wolf etc. It will make a great apartment for someone who needs space, has savings, but doesn't have big running income.

Congrats on getting it up, Ali!

Aaron2>> Am I the last person in NYC who likes parquet?

I don’t mind parquet in that apt. Honestly, I like elements in a home that reflect the original aesthetic.

@f_p: I ask about the w/d (and maybe range hood) venting principally out of random interest, as I'm unlikely to move at this point, though Sutton is my target neighborhood if I do - I'm not sure how long I'll stay in NYC. Oher potential buyers might want to know if the option exists, if they have fantasies of owning a real dryer. My biggest turnoff is the lack of central air. I agree w/ 300_ that it doesn't have to be a high-end reno to get a highly serviceable apartment - this is the plus of a good floorplan. (that fireplace has got to go though).

I like parquet too, always have. It's got that mid century vibe.

@fp: Nice place! Hoping you find the right person for it.

^^Update -- three offers so far, none of them making to acceptance. Frankly, two of them should never even have come in in the first place.

Realize that I, unlike some listing brokers, try very hard to screen the people I'm showing the apartment to, yet still, probably twenty percent of them should never have walked in the door.

Most specifically, the words "estate" condition in the listing mean... "estate" condition. When I, during screening, explain the extent and the cost of a renovation, you need to believe me. Multiple times I've said to a buyer's broker,"I would spend $400K on a renovation, if it were me" and then had them bring a client who said, "wow, it's beautiful, I've fallen in love with the building now, but I didn't realize this apartment would be A PROJECT."

I take the mismatches as a sign that the market, even though it picked up this summer, is relatively slow, so buyers' brokers are taking shots they shouldn't take out of desperation.

But it's not a good look for the real estate community as a whole for the buyers' brokerage model to be: "I'm going to throw things against the wall and see what sticks."

how low were they?

oh, that low?

@Ali - Definitely a sign of the market. I am seeing multiple sellers capitulate on properties that I am watching, recognizing significant losses. To that point, I just watched another apartment in @Yentle's building go into contract at the same price point as Yentle's last ask. The apartment that just went into contract at the abysmally low ask (when compared to last sale) is objectively "better" than Yentle's. I don't blame the buyers for throwing in absurd low-balls, nor do I blame the brokers for passing the offers along. It is rough out there!

The market is just all over the place. Obviously there are buyers, however as an agent you just have to be lucky enough to have ones that want to transact. We recently put two upper westside 7+mm homes into contract, both received, good discounts from ask. (One unit I can't list because I had to sign an NDA ).Have an accepted offer on a very nice Central Harlem brownstone, about $650 a square foot. Closed on the penthouse at 12 East 12th Street, very cool with a converted water tower that's become a yoga studio. Had multiple bids on our listing at 14 Horatio Street. Currently very little traction on our upper Eastside, three bedroom, and upper Westside one bedroom. Just lost a best and a final for a brownstone on St. James place in Brooklyn, we bid the ask, it went 500k over, all cash according to the listing agents. Also just put two one bedrooms into contract on the lower East side, along with a one-bedroom in Morningside heights. A lot of random activity, but it keeps things interesting.

June and July were quite active for us, and things are moderately busy right now. I've gotten quite a few calls from people looking to list properties, two will be going on the market shortly, another two early next year.

We also have a couple that's been throwing low offers at various upper Eastside, two bedrooms most that have been sitting on the market 200 plus days. Not sure what the future holds for a lot of these UES shareholders? At least the one we're trying to sell, the owner bought it in the '80s.

Keith Burkhardt
TBH

From Jonathan Miller's housing notes:

"While the 30-year Freddie Mac rate fell to 6.09% from 6.2% the previous week, that's not from yesterday's Fed cut. The actual drop in rates from the cut may not be immediate, and that's not the point. We've already seen this pent-up demand released in Manhattan and Brooklyn over July and August, with year-over-year increases reported in our New Signed Contract Reports with surging sales in New York and a modest rise in Florida. After lackluster NYC sales levels during the first half of 2024, this past summer's sales surge in NYC seems ahead of the national market and probably occurred in anticipation of rate cuts and higher housing prices over the next year. Recent national results occurred before the yen carry trade event in the first week of August, such as NAR's last Pending Home Sale Index."

Keith,
"We also have a couple that's been throwing low offers at various upper Eastside, two bedrooms ..."

10% low?
20%
1/3rd?
What's low?

20%+/- and I'll add that I guess the offers are low relative to the asking price. However, not low regarding our opinion on valuation.

Well, Ali what do you say?

The market overall is still not good, though with the rate cut it's getting *slightly* better -- at least there's more quality appointment traffic. However, I think I'll still have to "hand-sell" 14F because the people who quickly see "1700 sf for a million dollars" tend to miss the gut renovation part...

Please don't tell me a board turn down!

Please don't tell me a board turn down!

Please don't tell me a board turn down!

Please don't tell me a board turn down!

Please don't tell me a board turn down!

Please don't tell me a board turn down!

Please don't tell me a board turn down!

Please don't tell me a board turn down!

Please don't tell me a board turn down!

Transatlantic posting...

NOOOOOOO! I see a "delisted" rather than a "sold," which does suggest a board turndown.
@keith - Again, envious of your transatlantic travel.

Speaking of difficult boards, look what is in contract again, for the third time since it was listed: https://streeteasy.com/building/130-134-east-67-th-street/9c?utm_campaign=sale_listing&utm_medium=share&utm_source=web&lstt=-5y_tAzgYhADqAmEGI2JEi7H8Tu00OfUxNtObnQXGDAcqYolwSgoSJuyCmBggyAY2CqqMWvdlc8WzLW2

Here is to hoping that the third time is the charm . . . .

How much $$ and time would it take to restore that apartment to its appropriate grandeur?

Yet another strange instance of people wasting time, money, & resources. $1.8M purchase doing nothing other than remaining a wreck for 3 years, hoping to get out for $1.8M. Which means:

- $180K in maintenance for nothing
- $270K in forgone interest for nothing
- $120K in transaction costs for nothing
- $120K in nominal loss (assuming 6.7% off ask) for nothing

Grand tally: $690K. Not pocket change to the owners from what I can tell, to say nothing of morality of wasting. But just another typical day in NYC RE silliness! Carry on…

I do not understand who is buying this at this point. I am particularly intrigued by what looks like a service elevator that opens directly into the utility room of the unit behind one of the bedrooms? Does anyone see that as a positive? I would not want to be in a bedroom that backed up to an elevator shaft, and I wouldn't want the building's service elevator to open directly into my apartment. Am I misreading the floorplan?

I too am envious of Keith's travels!

We got ... not-exactly a turn-down? We on the sell-side presented potential buyers and terms to the board, and we were sort-of-coached (I'm being vague to preserve everyone's privacy here) that those buyers ought to present something different.

So at least, it wasn't the people, who were lovely.

They did decline, however, to move forward.

And I -- with nothing in my bank account to compensate me for having shown the apartment to probably more than five dozen people, I'm a high-service in-person broker so that was much of my business over the better part of a year, and having bet wrong that this offer, one of several I brought in, was going to fly as it was -- advised my sellers, who are dear old friends, to hire a broker who might have stronger communication with the board than I did. Which I believe has been #18F's story, after a couple of turndowns despite having a top big-broker team on their sell-side.

I've spent much of the summer licking my wounds and hanging out with buyers -- swimming a lot -- have a closing next week and looking forward to the season starting back again in the fall. Buyers, you know where to find me. My rates are competitive.

ali r.
{upstairs realty}

Ali, live and learn as they say. mcr, you could have packages delivered directly to your apartment. You would just have to put a lock on the door leading to the bedroom.

@Ali - I am so sorry.

@stache - When I looked more closely at the floorplan, I decided that the elevator "lobby" is outside the apartment. It does look quite small though, and it is weird that it makes it look like it is exclusive to that apartment. That just doesn't make sense in that building from what I can tell, and the listing doesn't say anything about it, so I am just going to chalk it up to a weird floor plan drawing.