Most At Risk Manhattan Condominiums

"I'll take hot chicks over clean streets anyday"

quote of the day

"quote of the day"

Not for me. ;)

JuiceMan: "tenemental, re 110 3rd if you had the choice between this and ANYTHING else at $1500 psft, what would you do?"

I'll take rental, Bob, for 400!

If you're saying you think the place is full of flippers-in-waiting then yeah, they're fucked.

rufus: "regarding Chicago, i think the women there are way more attractive than the women here, but that's not relevant to our discussion on this board."

Maybe not, but your credibility and/or aesthetic sense must now be called into question.

evillager "where women are more attractive is most definitely relevant. that affects quality of life!

I'll take hot chicks over clean streets anyday"

Ha!

stevejhx "Not for me. ;)"

Don't worry, Steve. We'll drop you off at the Phoenix before heading over to Porch.

"Don't worry, Steve. We'll drop you off at the Phoenix before heading over to Porch."

I don't know how this discussion got here, but I approve!

Anyone care to share what is Phoenix and Porch?

bjw2103, I knew we were missing somebody.

jmcbyr8, The Phoenix is a bar for the boys on 13th between 1st and A. Porch is a bar on Ave C frequented by lovely young ladies, the likes of which Chicagoans can only dream of.

tenemental - shhhhhh. never talk about good places in the neighborhood, unless you don't want them to be good anymore.

i'm going to make one more point on this silly topic.

i've been to every "hot" spot in NYC, ranging from dive bars to upscale venues like rose bar, 1oak, downtown cipriani, bungalow 8, socialista, etc. And there is no doubt that the girls in Chicago are hotter.

You're right, evillager, I should know better. I let the spirit of generosity get the better of me.

It's clear to all of us with the repetition. You should move to Chicago - clearly you don't like it here. Take action and quit whining.

The girls in Chicago are meatier than the girls in NYC, and I agree with girlygirl

i aggree with divvie - 414 washington and its sister property 415 washington. 414 washington (pearline) has already been through at least 3 prudential teams and has closed on maybe one unit since january - although they claim to have more in contract. only 7 units but way overpriced and across the street from another 25+/- units coming on line by the same developer...

Rufus: I am a woman and find it hard to believe NY - a city that attracts models, actresses (i.e. people whose main source of money is their looks due to industries - has less attractive women than corn-fed Chicago gals. I've seen maps of the US where it is based on obesity and Illinois beats out NY. But hey you have your own opinion. From your posts, your issue may be the diversity of women here (i.e. many different ethnicities countries) as you seem to have an issue with that. . . .I think most men say the opposite of you. The things I am saying are not to protect me as it just means for any given gal (it is more competitive).

But anyway - it's getting old already with your narrow-minded ranting (bothers me more than what you think of women).

girlygirl77-good call. I agree with your assessment. Allow me to add: It would be a safe assumption that narrow minded people are shortsighted in every meaning of the word and as such their comments should not be entertained. From a man's point of view, I believe that Rufus' negativity stems mainly from his own insecurities.

With that said, it sounds as though this thread is becoming a dating/clubbing discussion.

Anything built by the Holland Tunnel, including and especially One York, should go on this list.

I vote to put The Charleston (225 E. 34th) on the top of this list.

i agree on both one york and charleston. the latter is a nice building, but it's next to canal street, one of the most disgusting streets in manhattan. who wants to step out of their luxury condo and be confronted by noisy street vendors selling counterfeit products? YUCK!

charleston is even worse. it's in murray hell, a truly wretched neighborhood that has nothing to offer except drunk post-college kids and dirty sports bars.

Rufus -- you must be one of those guys who never drinks anything but a budweiser and wears a flannel plaid shirt at a bar and want your women to do the same. Oh, and don't forget the spongee thing they wear in their hair. I can say this because I'm a woman originally from Chicago but never felt comfortable spending the whole of my Friday and Saturday nights at a sportsbar watching cornfed guys woo girls over a Bud. Oh, and don't even bother trying to get them to go to the Art Institute -- there's a game on and you can't bring your beer with you!

rufus go away, we get it, you hate NY, you have nothing more to add, you just keep confirming you know nothing about any of these neighborhoods.

It's funny, Looking2Buy . . . I have a clear image of Rufus as a Danny Devito lookalike (and act-alike of every role he ever played, except for the nice-guy deep-down-inside part).

the ad hominem attacks are hilarious and only confirm my belief that a lot of NYC people have an inferiority complex.

what part of my last thread was inaccurate? 1 York is near canal street, which almost everyone agrees, is downright awful. and charleston is in murray hill, a neighborhood that very few people find desirable.

Looking2Buy, your stereotype of Chicago is so outdated that it's laughable. Yes, they have sports bars and rabid sports fans but so does NYC. What exactly is your point? Chicago also has plenty of upscale nightclubs and lounges, and the women there are gorgeous but also laid-back and down to earth. It's too bad that I can't say the same for NYC women.

I find it pretty funny that you are trashing murray hill. I don't disagree, but that neighborhood reminds me the most of chicago of anywhere in nyc.

sorry, but no one cares about your "chicago is awesome" comments. we are here because we like it here (well I am anyway). so seriously, if you think chicago is so great, why not move back there? since you are bitching so much about nyc, you are clearly pretty unhappy here. I love it, but it's not for everyone.

Ditto on Charleston. That thing is on top of the tunnel and filled with kids. Its going to look even worse after a few years of beer bottles in the halls...

> and the women there are gorgeous

We talking about the Chicago in IL? I've been to many cities, and if *that* is gorgeous, you either haven't been anywhere else, or Gary Indiana girls are spectacular on your scale...

rufus
about 2 hours ago
ignore this person
report abuse the ad hominem attacks are hilarious and only confirm my belief that a lot of NYC people have an inferiority complex.

So let me be clear about what you are saying, Mister I went to Cornell University Agriculture State School and try to pass that off as a Legitimate Ivory League School or even Cornell University Arts & Sciences ... you, who don't want to be in NYC, who thinks NYC people have complexes, who thinks NYC is grimy, who prefers Chicago women to NYC women, YOU believe that WE New Yorkers who are happy living in NYC have an inferiority complex?

nyc10022, yes, charleston is awful. i have a friend who lives in the rivergate rental building, which is in that area, and he said the area is so noisy that he has a tough time sleeping. plus, unruly young people have no respect for others by blasting music and throwing up in the hallway and lobby.

Rufus has murray hell to a "T," and no, it is not like Chicago. I lived for 4.5 year in Murray Hell, and it is just tacky. The problems with the Charleston are more than just location, though. It's a fishbowl.

lincoln park neighborhood in Chicago is 100 times a better neighborhood than murray hell will ever be, even though they both attract post-college young professionals.

Lincoln Park is the most family-stable neighborhood within Chicago for educated people. Its analogue in NY is Park Avenue in the 60s and 70s. To present Lincoln Park in comparison with Murray Hill is absurd. And I seriously doubt that that's where they're building the tall shiny nonsubsidized upmarket housing projects that you crave.

Which reminds me, Chicago is so together as a city that you'll rarely find educated people willing to raise their kids there. They move to the burbs at age four. The whole core of the city is 20-somethings and young married no kids / toddlers.

Can I suggest that rufus leave New York?

tenemental - flowerbox is definitely and completely sold out and at amazing prices for the time. nothing shady or mysterious about it. the penthouse is just one of those owners and renovations that last forever. units are now reselling at strong prices.

alanhart, you're right about Chicago. It is the most desirable city for people in their twenties.

> It is the most desirable city for people in their twenties.

Someone forgot to tell them, then...

Confused, you sound like either a Warburg broker (Irene Lo or Laurence Carty, perhaps?) or a Flowerbox buyer. The original prices weren’t “amazing.” The units discussed with me at a mid-construction open house were $1k/sf, and others were later listed higher. Yes, it’s a beautiful building, but it’s a couple hundred feet from one of the largest concentrations of public housing in New York, and as long a walk to the subway as any location in Manhattan I can think of.

ACRIS and StreetEasy do not have sales records for units 1, 2E, 4W, 3W, 3E, 4E and the penthouse, even though listings existed for all of them. Why was there even a listing for the penthouse, if it was pre-sold to finance construction as claimed? For that matter, why would the penthouse require renovation? If it was the sale that financed the rest of the building, wouldn’t it be built to spec?

3W, which was originally listed 13 months ago, is still available – never sold – though it’s now also being offered as a rental. There was a price hike when it was relisted which probably only served to make the rental seem like a better deal (at over $7K, it’s way overpriced). 2W is currently also being offered by the developer.

You claim units are now reselling at strong prices, but there is no record of any resale at any price. In fact, the last sale of any kind was exactly a year ago today, 10/25/07. The seller in every transaction is listed as “Flowerbox Development LLC.”

The data are here:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/259-east-7-street-manhattan

tenemental, what's your problem? Clicking on the link you provide, there are recorded sales for 7 units? Since the building only had 7 units, what's the issue? and no, not a warburg broker.

No problem at all, Confused. It's just that every comment you made about the building was wrong, and things like "amazing prices," "completely sold out" and "resales at strong prices" sound like brokerspeak (or defensive ownerspeak) when untrue. There were 13 listings with different unit numbers and only 7 sales. There are two units currently listed for sale that haven't previously sold. There is no sales record for the still-under-construction penthouse which was the basis of all their pre-sales hype.

No list of the most at risk Manhattan condominiums would be complete without including Manhattan House at 200 East 66th Street - http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/200-east-66th-street-new_york. Out of the approximately 575 residential units in the building, only 4 closings have taken place according to StreetEasy (Acris includes an additional 5 closings not listed in StreetEasy). Also see Friday's The Real Deal article "Manhattan House faces lending woes" at http://ny.therealdeal.com/articles/manhattan-house-faces-lending-woes. How many people are walking away from their contracts at Manhattan House? The sponsor certified to the NY Attorney General that they had 109 contracts to sell apartments in order to have the condo conversion offering plan declared effective - but where are the closings?

rsmith, is the info on Acris updated daily, or could there be some delay, where they update every 30 days and more closing actually have occurred?

we might have our answer...

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/5909-bad-news-for-20-pine-and-the-district

Can we have a discussion of the most at risk new development condominiums in Manhattan?

Here is my list for starters:

20 Pine: Prices, heavy ownership by investors
133 West 22nd: Bad Chelsea area, very poor construction quality
29th Park Madison: Prices, only investors could truly be thinking this is a good area to own in
Yves: poor construction quality and design
Jasper: Very high monthly charges, likely deterioration of amenities
William Beaver: Catering to 20 something up and coming Wall Streeters who are likely to suffer, prices

Worth revisiting with the benefit of several months market declines.

Where do we think psf prices are heading? Back to 2000 levels ($500-$550 psf)?