Yves Chelsea

Another "luxury" NYC condo bites the dust! what a load of bullsh*t! that condo is near the housing projects. why would anyone pay that much to live in such a mediocre area?

lol, Danny Davis still at it.

Why is Larry Goldblatt facing that direction?

Also, can this building survive an earthquake or hurricane?

Maybe I don't get it. Why is everyone against the listing? It looks like a nice building to me, but there is most likely something I am missing.

This is, indeed, a prime location. And the building is very chic.

I'm guessing that the "news" here is that the condos were simply not selling so they've had to shift to a rental strategy.

It may be a combination rental and owner - but banks are typically not too enthusiastic about making mortgages to buildings with high rental percentages.

Perhaps yet another sign of the times. And the Big Shift.

rufus, the building is nowhere near any project - I do wish you'd give up that quest. It's at 18th Street & 7th Avenue, across from Vesta 18.

It's also right across the street from a subway direct-current substation - read brain cancer - and around the corner from a firehouse. It's also hideous blue glass with effectively no windows, and $7,750 - $9,500 are the highest prices available for 2-bedrooms in the area. 50% higher on average. You can get a 2-bedroom in the Westminster, 1 block away and rent-stabilized, for $5,500, some even have terraces.

Topper's almost right: it's The Big Sh*t.

Oh.

Also, it's not clear that those rentals are from the developer, or from unit owners. Beware of jumping to conclusions, though given the prices they were initially asking ($2,500 psf if I recall) I wouldn't doubt that they would shift to rentals.

Stevejhx...what are you talking about...Westminster rents per their website, true 2bed is $7696 and they get it with no give backs...and it is only rent stabilized for original tenants under the 80/20 rule...once an original tenant moves, it becomes market rate...and is not a subway direct-current substation..it is Con-Ed...get a job, hobby, life, boyfriend, dog, hand-cream and stop posting every 3 minutes, it just makes you look sad

Studio $3395
2Bedroom/2Bathroom $7696
Alcove Studio $3595
1 Bedroom/ 1 Bathroom The Westminster $4595
Conv2Bedroom/2Bathroom The Westminster $5795

mrsbuffet: did you do any homework here at all? how have you concluded that this building has "gone rental"? i just called and they seem to be offering apts for SALE...

not a rental building.

Topper, this is not prime location. It's an ugly building near a firehouse. Imagine being awakened each time a firetruck has the sirens on. Yuck!

Apt_boy: "true 2bed is $7696 and they get it with no give backs..."

Depends on the apartment.

"it is only rent stabilized for original tenants under the 80/20 rule"

Wrong. Every subsequent apartment becomes stabilized at the market rent for the next 17 or so years.

"...once an original tenant moves, it becomes market rate..."

True.

"and is not a subway direct-current substation..it is Con-Ed..."

False. It powers the IRT underneath it.

"get a job, hobby, life, boyfriend, dog, hand-cream"

Nice.

"and stop posting every 3 minutes, it just makes you look sad"

Thanks!

"Depends on the apartment."

Exactly. Thats maybe the biggest problem with your rent buy analysis over the past x months, you often compare complete crap apts to very nice apts. Without having seen these apts in person, I'm guessing they are quite nice, much nicer then the rentals you're talking about going for half. I rented in this area a year ago and the stuff (5-10) apts I saw under 6k was crap. I ended up paying over 7 for a place in the Sierra, and yes I know related buildings are very expensive (nice building, nice apt, but I'm pretty certain I would trade it for either of the 2 2 brs currently listed for rent in this building (both b/w 7-8k)). We'll see what they charge 9.5k for.

yeah rufus, 18th and 7th, its more or less the South Bronx. What a jackass. Why haven't you moved yet?

i just put in an offer for $1.05 for this: http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/361905-condo-166-west-18th-street-chelsea-new-york

1) do you think this is a reasonable price?
2) do you think the seller will agree to it? or has the market (psychology) not yet caught up to my offer price?

My feeling is this -

$1MM+ for just about ANY 1 bed/1 bath (or 1.5 bath) is too expensive in this market.

Having said this, if I HAD to buy a place right now like that, I would only do so in a A+ location in an A+ building to protect my investment as much as humanly possible. Something like the following seems to me the MUCH wiser place to consider in comparison -

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/366958-coop-2-fifth-avenue-greenwich-village-new-york

thanks for the advice, malraux. i know that you are a credible, unbiased, rational poster.

for a whole host of personal reasons that we need not get into, we do like the yves. i understand that it's an ugly building and perhaps not in the best of locations (certainly not center of GV as your comparable post). and you have answered my question: you think that $1.05 is too much.

do you (or anyone) have any sense of what people are talking about (in specifics) when they mention that yves is poorly built? we did a walkthrough the other day, and things seemed well put together (though obviously not finished). the fixtures were already in place, so we got to see them built out (ie, there won't be any bait and switch with them). the floors were nice, the gym was spec'd out. the pool wasn't operational yet, but looked ok. i understand that these may be superficial concerns, and so i am asking what i should really be looking at.

last question: i've heard that buying from a developer is different than buying from an owner in the sense that the developer has a "real" floor to the price of the unit due to explicit contracts signed with their bank (ie, they cannot go below a certain price). is this true?

thanks in advance from this newbie.

If you want to live near the fire department and across from an electric substation, god bless.

If you want to live near the fire department and across from an electric substation, god bless.

Luciato, I don't have time right now to check out the specifics of the unit, but malraux's advice seems sound. I will say that the developer, Ben Shaoul/Magnum RE is having a terrible year, which you should consider in your negotiations. The A Building is selling remaining units at steep discounts (9% in one line, 19% in another, who knows what they did w/ transaction costs), 133 W. 22nd seems to be way behind schedule (check the thread here), his East Village portfolio is underperforming (kind of like a mini-version of what Tishman/Speyer is going through with Stuy Town/PCV), and now he's been told he has to remove floors he added to two EV tenements he owns (it was in Curbed last week). This would make me concerned for cut corners in construction as well.

luciato:

In terms of people saying that Yves is "...poorly built..." the honest response is "I truthfully have no idea." And neither does anyone else unless they've actually expended the actual time and $'s to find out for themselves.

As far as a final walkthrough, did you hire a top notch building inspector to give the building a complete review? It's one of the best things you can pay for before signing the contract, should you decide to go ahead. The building inspector can alert you to many different kinds of potential problem issues that you may need to know about - and let me be clear - I'm not just talking about inspecting YOUR unit - I'm talking about a 1-2 hour anal retentive, OCD, thorough review (which about what that size building should take) of the ENTIRE building, with FULL unfettered access to the roof, basement, heating/cooling/plumbing/electrical/gas/whatever else closets, all common/public spaces, and everything and anything else in between that the building inspector wants to look at, PLUS your personal unit in great deatil.

If the builder balks at this request, that's a MAJOR red flag for you.

As far as a 'real' floor price, that depends on what the agreement was between the builder and lender - every agreement is different - there's no standard 'boilerplate' agreement.

tenemental and malraux, thanks very much for your insight. (i was afraid that i would be bombarded with the usual obnoxious comments that overwhelm this site.) ... i did misspeak: i didn't do a "walkthrough". what i meant is that i walked through the unit just as an interested potential buyer. i can tell you that we received a counter offer of $1.15. i'm not sure how much of this i should post on a public board, but oh well. our feeling is that we could get very close to the $1.05 that we offered. but more to the point is "the winner's curse". if we get anywhere close to our offer, i'm starting to feel that any deal that goes through may be, by definition, overpaying. and that's certainly the impression that most of you are giving me here. ... though per square foot, the $1.05mm would come in at $1000/sqft. and if we assume a $5000/month rental, the P-R is 17.5X. which seems reasonable to me. and from the original $1.295mm, our offer of $1.05mm is a 19% cut. but i guess the point is that the $1.295 original is a phantom price that is quite meaningless in today's market. and... why buy now when we can wait 6-9 months and buy the same thing for $200k cheaper?

in any case, we did walk through the unit again today. with a particular eye for shoddy construction. it's true that there are small things like the grout work and tile work not being as nice as they could be -- at these prices, you'd think this stuff was done impeccably.

i now am no longer sure why i'm even writing. i guess maybe i'm looking for some stern voices to talk me down...

Look, this is your decision. If you imagine living there for a long time (read 5-10 years) and/or don't look at the money you're investing to buy the joint as an asset, but you just LOVE it and MUST have it money-be-damned, and you know you're going to be thrilled there every day for the next 5-10 years, well, then, you've got your answer.

But assuming this NOT to be the case.... well, my two pieces of advice stand. 1.) I don't see what you have to gain by waiting this market out for a 6 month period and reassessing. I think you'll find a place as nice for the same amount, and quite possibly for less. Or, a nicer place for the same amount. 2.) If you MUST buy now, for whatever personal reasons, and if you want a 1 bed/1 bath (or 1.5 bath) for $1MM (give or take) I would look to buy ONLY in the most prime location and prime buildings possible (hence my 2 Fifth Avenue suggestion above). I think neither the location nor the building you are looking at are distinguished enough for the size apartment you're looking for and for the amount you're willing to spend.

I don't mean to rain on your parade - I'm just trying to be as honest as possible. To me it's a "B-" location with "B" finishes. In this market, for a 1 bed/1 bath for $1MM, you should/can do (significantly) better for your money.

oops - end of paragraph 2, line 1 should read "...I don't see what you have to LOSE bywaiting..." - sorry!

Malraux can you recommend a top match building inspector? Is it common todo the walk through (prior to closing) with an inspector as well as with your broker?

The very best building inspector, HANDS DOWN (and I have no financial or other interest here) is -

http://www.accuratebuilding.com/

Ask for Lawrence (Larry) Ubell. He really is the best in the business.

As to final walk-throughs, I don't give a shit if the broker walks through with me or not. I only require a full roof-to-basement review by my building inspector. In all cases, I've had the inspector come through to do the full review at the time of going to contract, and had the same inspector (read: Larry) come back and do a final cursory walk through the day before the closing to make sure nothing significant has changed.

Thank you Malraux for your recommendation. Do you know how much he charges usually? I have no idea since I am a first time buyer. Also, are we suppose to provide him with the contract where all the details of the unit are described? thanks a lot for your help. I am closing during the second week on Jan. and I would like to do it in the best possible way.

I second the recommendation of Larry Ubell.
He did an inspection for me of an investment property in BK, did a very thorough job, report etc and also gave me lots of advice while I was there with him in terms of what was worth changing and in how many months/years etc.

It cost a few hundred. Can't remember the exact number but I think it was above 500.
Well worth it.

the rates are on their site...

Property Type Basic Fee ∞
One Family House $650.00
Two Family House $700.00
Cooperative Unit / Condominium Unit $750.00

yes I realised the rates are on the site after I posted the question. ctor?Sizzlack are you getting an ins[e

Absolutely. I know the basic stuff to look for but I think the money will be well worth it in the end.

some helpful commentary about this building on this blog

http://abodeny.blogspot.com/