Would you EVER live in the Bronx?

Fieldston.

The Estates section (west of the HH Parkway).

Robert Moses happened, and federal transportation and housing policy happened, and NYU un-happened.

Plus really the Bronx was always a laughingstock anyway -- yesterday's version of Joisey jokes.

As a native UWSer, I seldom ventured to the Bronx - with the exception of a daily trek to high school for a few years at Bronx Science - until I got into real estate.

In my five years in this biz, I've probably flipped more apts in the Bronx than any other boro. I've spent a LOT of time in neighborhoods I never would have heard of (let alone been to) if I hadn't fallen into this business.

Any my conclusion is...I really dig the Bronx. Way the hell more than Queens, Staten Island, and probably even Brooklyn.

Subway access is generally excellent, with five distinct tracks (as opposed to Queens, which, despite its much larger size, effectively has only one, and Staten Island, which isn't even connected to the subway.) With the exception of the Bruckner during rush hour and the Cross Bronx at any hour, the highways (Henry Hudson, Deegan, Bronx River, Hutch, New England Thruway) are quick and relatively traffic-free compared to other traffic snarled routes like the BQE or the LIE. And there're like 9 bridges to Manhattan, all but two of which are free, as opposed, again, to the much larger Brooklyn (which has 3 and a tunnel) and Queens (which has only 2). It's a MUCH quicker commute from my home in the Lincoln Center area to and from most points in the Bronx than anywhere in Brooklyn, and even Queens, which is geographically much closer.

A greater percentage of Bronx surface area is covered by parkland than any other boro. And the architecture is generally excellent, with an abundance of pretty pre-war buildings. Interestingly, the most vaunted neighborhood, Riverdale, has by FAR the ugliest apartment buildings in the boro (a trend that's consistent in many areas in the boros - Forest Hills, the creme de la creme of Queens, has the blandest, ugliest apartment building architecture in the boro. Far worse than other, less wealthy nabes.) And the Bronx just FEELS like NYC in a way that Queens never does and Brooklyn only approaches. It's urban, it's tightly compacted...just like Manhattan...xcept the store names are not quite as familiar (or as likely to be written in English.) But everything from the grid-layout of much of the western Bronx to the look of the buildings will be familiar and home-y to Manhattanites.

The most shocking thing I came to realize about the Bronx is that much of it is really...nice. Pleasant. Pretty. And safe. Sure, there are swaths of lousy neighborhoods - but this ain't your mama's 'Bronx is Burning' of the 1970s. Most of it is decidedly working or middle class. In a way, it's more like Brooklyn was 60 years ago than Brooklyn is today. Back in the day, Brooklyn was a working-class, community oriented place. Today, it's either very hip, wealthy (Bklyn Heights, Slope, etc.) or very poor (most of the rest of it - with the exception of areas of southern Brooklyn that retain the old zeitgeist.) A lot of neighborhoods in the Bronx - Pelham Parkway, Throgs Neck, Kingsbridge, Woodlawn, etc. - have that working class, authentic urban NYC feel that is disappearing from Brooklyn and completely evaporated from Manhattan a couple decades ago.

The Bronx is SEVERELY stigmatized because of what happened there in the 70s and 80s. But it ain't like that anymore. Take a drive/walk around. You'll see.

A friend of mine is a cop in SoBro (South Bronx to the rest of the world). As I have heard it, the gentrification in that section isn't quite all it's cracked up to be.

Riverdale is beautiful, and very spawling Westchester like in parts. I am not educated enough on the real estate over there, but the feedback I have heard from a few people was that the new construction was overpriced (perhaps this will be rectified real soon) but some of the single family homes were priced decently.

SomeoneWho -- what happened to those other points on your entrance exam? Why did you have to go to BS instead of Stuyvesant?

Semerun -- the South Bronx will never prosper until it can shake that irrelevant name and return to the name of each component neighborhood. The Bronx was historically thought of as West Bronx and East Bronx; "South Bronx" was only used after it fell on hard times.

All -- for a beautiful scenic drive, try the Bronx River Parkway (1908ish)

Alan - Ha, thanks for bringing up the painful memories. I will *NEVER* forget the day I came running out of gym class back to the classroom (in my small, tony, Upper East Side private school.) The principal pulled me aside to tell me that I had gotten the highest score in the class on the Stuyvesant exam. And that I had missed the cut-off by ONE stinking point. I had gotten a 553, and the cut-off was 554. Out of 800. I was totally wrecked.

I went to Bronx Science for a year, but the memory of that last point haunted me. I took the test again in 9th grade and beat the cutoff by 70 or 80 points and promptly transferred to Stuy for 10th grade. Had a miserable year there and transferred back to Science for junior and senior year, where I was much happier (and only after the principal of the 3000-strong Stuyvesant High School, whom students rarely, if ever, saw, pulled me into his office and screamed at me for bringing 'shame' on the school for wanting to transfer to the plebian Bronx Science from the vaunted Stuyvesant. Typified the arrogant attitude there.)

Wrote up a whole polemic on the problems with teachers in both schools in the "Would You Ever Live in Harlem" thread.

Woodlawn Cemetery is convenient so does Bronx zoo.

SWK, I think you describe Bx pretty well. I don't think it will be the destination borough for people of certain classes, though. It's where people live when they can't afford more expensive places. What I like about the Bronx is a certain energy that this place is going to make it, that people aren't desperate to escape it, and are even coming back to it when they had moved away. But this is an optimism and restoration at the bottom of the scale, compared to, say, the gentrification of Jersey City or Williamsburg, which are attracting young professionals with fairly high incomes and who are going there because of fashions as much as anything else. So I would be happy to exchange stories with you about how great the Bronx is, but it's not going to interest anyone on streeteasy. And yes, it's about the only place left within city limits that is kind of like New York City and not Disneyland.

Quite simply, that would be a 'no.'

The Bronx, right after I move to Idaho!

I'm with Someone... definitely some very pretty areas up there, unlike what folks think.

And not just Riverdale. Lots of middle class neighborhoods with some really nice topography. Take a drive on the saw mill, and you will be very surprised.

Its more of a mix that folks who only hear about it from the media would expect.

wait, sorry, I think they're very nice, and would consider investing post crash.

But, I wouldn't live there. Riverdale is too far and there is no culture. And the other areas, if I made 70k a year, perhaps. But a whole bunch of why I think we spend more to live in NYC isn't there as much as in other places...

"(and only after the principal of the 3000-strong Stuyvesant High School, whom students rarely, if ever, saw, pulled me into his office and screamed at me for bringing 'shame' on the school for wanting to transfer to the plebian Bronx Science from the vaunted Stuyvesant. Typified the arrogant attitude there.)"

Uncle Milty would never have done that.

I'm wondering if there was a big culture change with the new building...

Back in my (old building, which we actually thought was cool, particularly the adjacent park - the one across the street was for bums) days, I think Bronx Sci and Stuy were closer. Stuy had the numerical edge, but it wasn't crazy. Folks seemed to pick on location if the difference was signficant enough.

With the new building and all the yuppie parents entering the NYC school system, and all the attention, I'm wondering if that didn't start to break stuy away, and polarize a bit more.

That being said, you are talking about the experiences of one person who left a school (and presumably their friends) and starting over is *always* hard, especially when others have already been there a year. i don't remember anyone looking down on transfers, but perhaps the inferiority feelings can get compounded.

I never found stuy kids arrogant, just crazily driven. I never heard kids talking down to each other, or even kids from other schools.

If anything, it was a bit refreshing relative to the Ivy culture for college. I like that Stuy was pure meritocracy. No athletes or legacies or anything. I'd compare the Stuy body favorably to any Ivy. The absolute top, who knows, but on average, there were a lot more "why are you here" types in the ivies. And I found a lot more arrogance there than at Stuy.

But, years can change, and everyone can have a different experience.

Hell, my subway ride to school probably defined by high school years more so than the school itself...

In my day, my sense was that Science was the better regarded school overall, but largely because the Stuy building was decrepit. Now Stuy is in Boston, New York, otherwise known as "BPC North" so likely a much better school but I highly doubt they ever competed with Harris Field Day.

Hey, did Bx Sci change their mascot name? used to be the Spartans but I thought I saw a kid with a Bx Sci "Wolverines" shirt. No one consulted with me on that one.

How long ago, anonymous?

Because I saw a stat showing the Stuy cutoff higher than Bronx Sci for the entire period it covered.... I believe that went back to at least the 50s. Hell, I heard that rumor a couple years ago about the 80s...

Yes, the Stuy cutoff was higher but Science was still viewed more favorably (80s). I think the view was that Science produced a more rounded student. Whether thats true, I do not know. As to the view now, again I do not know.

I spent most of my time in the HFCS at Science.

Yeah, thats when I went.... (80s). I heard the exact opposite... Science was the "science" one, Stuy had Math and English too.

I guess both sides have their own claims... but, I generally go by the numbers. It might be location, but the kids preferred Stuy over BS.

No

Saint Uyvesant always had a higher cutoff, in large part because it had fewer places. Science was more well-known nationally -- I think they had a publicist, and in any event they were sort of a poster-child during the space race and that momentum continued. But I think locally Stuy had a better reputation all around for academics. BS was preferred by people who liked a campus environment.

The old building had charm, excellent columns at four points nearly blocking completely the gym track, imposing architecture, faded glory, that weird Bd. of Ed. paint, great location in the city, and teachers who were often supercrazy but never incompetent. I didn't feel the class size nor school size was a problem. I took comfort in knowing that the same jokes were uttered by teachers at the same point in the curriculum each year ("neither holy nor Roman, nor much of an empire").

I'm still good friends with an incoming, and make sure to remind her frequently that she's an incoming. I'm also good friends with a BS -- noblesse oblige.

I was released in the early 80s. Also two siblings. nyc10022, Neal yes/no?

Sorry to break up the Bronx Science / Stuyvesant lovefest. Just wanted to put in a good word for the Country Club / City Island. I might not want to put down roots up there in the far northeast myself, but I can understand why people do. Personally, if I were going that direction, I'd hop the line into Pelham for the schools.

> Saint Uyvesant always had a higher cutoff, in large part because it had fewer places.

When I went, they were the same size (within 100), and Brooklyn Tech was almost 2x.

Neal H, I presume?

no siblings at Stuy, though... other schools...

Amusingly, my direct reports at work have Bronx Sci and Brooklyn Tech covered....

Here at Streeteasy, they show 3,015 for Stuy, and 2,435 for BS. When I was at Stuy, it was < 2,800, and I could swear BS was considerably larger.

And I was asking if you have a brother or cousin or whatever named Neal who went to Stuy.

No, no Neals in my family.

And, I get that Stuy grew with the new building... but I don't see why BS would have shrunk....

I went to Science in the late 60s. At the time, Stuyvesant and Brooklyn Tech were boys only, and Science was the only school which accepted girls. So all the girls who went were at the top of the cutoff, as were the boys who went there. Even so, there isn't and wasn't much of a difference in the intelligence of anyone who went to any of them.

Unless there was some drastic change in the process, wouldn't the cutoff have been exactly the same for boys and girls?

They go down the list by top scores, and put you in top schools. Once they fill up, they are filled.

So, that would likely raise the Bronx Science cutoff score (because more of the high scorers - most of the female ones would pick it and fill it), but it wouldn't create diferrent cutoffs by gender...

I do know that the entrance system was changed in the early 90s to make the test culturally sensitive. When I was at Science, it was over 50% asian, the rmainder overwhlmingly white, with a smattering of hispancis and blacks. I have no idea what the racial breakdown is/was since then but I suspect asians make up a large chunk of the enrolless in htat you have to take a test to get in. Ditto, I suspect for Stuyvesant.

Brooklyn Tech is not in the same league as either Bx Sci or Stuy.