I want to void the contract due to murder in apt

jesus, which neighborhood is this?

if the seller did not disclose this fact you may have a case

Chelsea, apparently happened within the last couple of years, but still it is too overwhelming...

no, it was never disclosed, and we never thouht to ask if there was a violent crime or violent death in the building.

your lawyer should of also been more thorough in his/her ' due diligence'.
agree with above poster regarding the disclosure. you need to get lawyer onto case.
it's also easier to withdraw before they countersign.

Maybe the seller did not sign the contract yet and you can still cancel. I would have my lawyer contact immediately to cancel the contract. If they already sign, your options (1) appeal to seller to cancel contract, (2) mortgage contigency or (3) coop board rejection. While I would not want to live in an apartment where there was such an incident, there is no consideration in real estate contracts. You should have asked the broker (he/she is obligated to tell you). I do not think a lawyer would catch such an item. To be safe, some buyers have put in provisions in the contract asking seller to attest that no incident has taken place in apartment.

Is it a two bedroom?

yes, 2

if the seller has signed you are in it, nothing to do about it except plead your case to the seller and see if they let you out.

would you mind to disclose the block? we are looking at apts in chelsea as well and wouldn't want to be in the similar kind of situation. thanks much.

Is a murder even grounds for legally voiding a contract? I don't see why that information would even have to be disclosed. It's not like there's a water problem they're trying to hide... people are killed all the time, especially in NYC.
I don't know why a murder which happened a couple years ago would even matter.

Well, isn't the contract bound when both parties have signed the contract and the down payment check has cleared. Provided the check hasn't cleared, if you put a stop on the check wouldn't that void the contract?

1-if you signed the contract, you have an executed contract. Stopping a check after both parties have signed the contract will cause buyer to be in default. Seller has cause to go after the buyer.
2-I would appreciate if the original poster will update us with additional information, i.e. if the contract has been signed, is it a coop/condo, is there a mortgage contigency.

What are the terms of the deal? Maybe you can find someone to "step into your shoes".

Blow yourself up at the Board: "I have no problem suing everybody to get my way. The way I figure it, I'm paying the bills so everyone else had better just get used to dealing with it. Oh, yeah, and I'm planning to turn the 2nd bedroom into a brothel."

#15 Didn't you live in my building?

This is NYC..I remember stories where people read the obits to find a good apartment!!

nope seller doesn't have to disclose stigmatized properties (death , murder) etc.sorry misses you're stuck.

If the seller-signed contract has not been returned to your attorney you can still get out of the deal BEFORE your attorney acknowledges receipt . If the contracts have been fully signed and delivered, you cannot get out of it. The seller and/or realtor are under no obligation to disclose such facts.

I'm sure this will sound more argumentative than intended... why does it matter that a murder occurred there?

Would you want to live in a place where 3 people were murdered and then the murderer committed suicide, RayH? If I lived there, I would feel so upset and sad. I totally understand why she wants to cancel, I would try to cancel also, so can you tell us what happened??

Guys - look at the date of the OP - about 6 months ago- she has either closed or resolved the situation by now!

That's why I asked, can you tell us what happened??

We need a followup!!!

At least the murderer killed himself. I would definitely live there. This is New York who knows what has happened in apartments that are 100 years old.

I guess I feel differently from you julia - i really wouldn't want to live in such a place. It's just a personal preference I guess (a very strong one).

I am surprised the broker didn't disclose and say something like: "what are the chances it will happed again?"

I'm not....why would a broker disclose something he/she is not legally obligated to? And even then..

I bet the OP made the seller steam the carpets and called it a day....

Broker wanted a sale and even though some people might be ok with it - I have a feeling it could be a turn-off for a good number of potential buyers. So if since it wasn't legally required, of course it wasn't disclosed.

even if you are not 'legally' responsible, there is such thing as fiduciary responsibility

it apparently happens regularly enough...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,274393,00.html

Many states have instituted buyer shield laws requiring brokers to disclose existence of violent crimes in property they're selling. NY is not one of them. In fact, NY law protects brokers and sellers from non-disclosure of such facts, including, existence of murders in the unit and death of AIDS of previous owners or occupants. Wonderful. Remember, the brokers are very powerful in this State. This law was basically in response to a case way back where the sellers sued to rescind a contract where the property was haunted by poltergeists...no joke.

Why does it matter if there was a murder?

Is the other solution that the apartment be relegated to a haunted house until the building is razed?

unmanned, this is an interesting topic, but you're coming on board a little late in the game, no?

All this news of our beloved JFK and that horrible assassin! East to get caught up in the papers and lose track of time.

Unmanned, do you honestly think anyone is interested in revisiting year-old threads or are you just trying to amuse yourself?

I am the original poster. After finding it that the murder was simply a guy killing his yappy in-laws who kept pulling a "pop-in" (they live in Maine!), I decided it was justifiable homicide and closed gladly. I'm proud to live there.

Admiral, are you the person asking the question or the murderer?

This is really a hysterical discussion!
(no offense to the murdered person)

California has enough fruit-loops that they passed laws about undoing RE deals for failure to disclose gruesome crimes, hauntings, etc. if memory serves. NY, being a more rational place than CA--with fewer people willing to worship a head of lettuce is their favorite movie star does it too--does not permit the undoing of a deal for failure to disclose murders, ghosts or any other fault based in another dimension.

Kyle, what about rentals? If you rent in apartment and someone who wasn't funny but had strong opinions on renting vs. buying lived there, can you get out of the rental?

wtf!!!

kylewest: "NY, being a more rational place than CA--with fewer people willing to worship a head of lettuce is their favorite movie star does it too--does not permit the undoing of a deal for failure to disclose murders, ghosts or any other fault based in another dimension."

Kylewest, you may want to reconsider your comment above. Check out the link below. The case is a favorite of property professors in law school.

http://buyingsellingahome.suite101.com/article.cfm/haunting_reale_estate_precedents

Actually, for background on the case, check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stambovsky_v._Ackley

The most well-known line: "having reported [the ghosts'] presence in both a national publication . . . and the local press . . . defendant is estopped to deny their existence and, as a matter of law, the house is haunted."

Man, I love this stuff.

So, yes, in New York, under some circumstances, you CAN undo a real estate deal for failure to disclose ghosts. :)

I wouldn't move in.

1. This is retarded.
2. In NYS, "Supreme Court" is the lowest superior court--the trial court. Nyack's trial court does not bind any other court to its whacky decision. I didn't take the time to see how many such cases there are in NY or if any appellate authority exists. If it does, I'd love someone to post a link.
3. If this type of thing worries you, google the address for God's sake before you sign the contract.

Why do people keep resurrecting this 2+-year-old thread? BO-ring.

Hi everyone, this is my apartment, please let me know.

Nothing to see here.

I remember when the same thing happened at 504 Grand St (Amalgamated). According to my dear departed partner who was on the board, the first time the buyers heard about it was when they were questioned about it at the board interview.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/16/nyregion/morgenthau-rules-out-death-penalty-in-triple-murder-case.html

What if it was the broker who got murdered?

hahahah nyc10022, hahahaha, murdering a broker is funny, hahahahaha

fucking psychopath

if you were the killer it would be very easy to avoid closing.

how come didn't your broker tell you about this? who forgot to put the yellow crime scene tape? shouldn't that person be responsible for buying the unit? did i watch too much law & order?

what if people who keep reviving a stupid two-year old thread got murdered in an apartment and no one cared?

"What if it was the broker who got murdered?"

then they would only have been charged with pesticide.

So I'm actually coming back to this after a good 6-9 months and haven't seen anyone post an example of a murder in an apartment. NYC real estate is safer than thought!!

not so fast. This occurred in 2007:

NEW YORK (CBS) ― Click to enlarge1 of 1
Linda Stein was found murdered in her Upper East Side apartment.
CBS

Close

numSlides of totalImages CBS 2 News has learned that Linda Stein, the former manager of the Ramones and "realtor to the stars," was found dead, lying in a pool of blood in her multi-million-dollar Fifth Ave. apartment on Manhattans' Upper East Side.

Police confirm she suffered blunt impact trauma to the head and neck.

EMS pronounced the 62-year-old former school teacher DOA when they arrived late Tuesday at the doorman building which also has surveillance cameras. The medical examiner ruled the death a homicide on Wednesday.

Sources told CBS 2 News Stein's body was discovered by her daughter. They also said that Stein had been battling cancer.

Residents in the normally peaceful and pleasant neighborhood were stunned.

"It's very sad. It's very shocking, because I feel so safe here," said resident Jen Shannon. "I would have thought that could never have happened."

In exclusive interviews with CBS 2, the top executives Stein worked with said she was an icon in their business.

"She was known in New York City, she was known in Beverly Hills, she was known in Europe and she was known and loved by everyone who knew her," said Dottie Herman, CEO of Douglas Elliman.

Stein first found the limelight in the music world, as a manager for the Ramones in the early days of punk rock. Big time success and wealth followed in a career brokering real estate deals for the rich and famous.

"The big thing about her was about discretion about making sure that she protected her clients from publicity," said Douglas Elliman President Steven James. "The fact that this is occurring and it's pretty high profile is shocking."

Stein had been struggling with breast cancer for years, and in fact had been very active raising money to fight the disease. So when news of her death spread around this morning, her friends and colleagues figured that must be the cause.

Murder was the last thing on their minds.

"Yes she was feisty and high strung and really tough, but she had a really, really soft heart," James said. "People who really knew Linda knew that she had this heart. That's why it's really difficult for us to believe that she had enemies."

In addition to managing rock 'n' roll bands like the Ramones, Stein also managed Steve Forbert, as well as the Deal. After many years in the music business, Stein turned to the real estate industry, where she helped clients like Madonna, Sting, Billy Joel, Steven Spielberg, Calvin Klein, and Angelina Jolie find fancy homes throughout New York.

The investigation into her death is ongoing.

"unmanned
about 23 hours ago
ignore this person
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So I'm actually coming back to this after a good 6-9 months and haven't seen anyone post an example of a murder in an apartment. NYC real estate is safer than thought!!"

Really? WTF is this 6 posts up?

"I remember when the same thing happened at 504 Grand St (Amalgamated). According to my dear departed partner who was on the board, the first time the buyers heard about it was when they were questioned about it at the board interview.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/16/nyregion/morgenthau-rules-out-death-penalty-in-triple-murder-case.html"

If you look for good deals, these are things you learn to deal with.

If it's too much for you to check with Police Dept data, NY Times does it for you
http://projects.nytimes.com/crime/homicides/map?scp=2&sq=crime%20map&st=cse

These things are dime-a-dozen. If you think you'd be bothered, the NYT archive is always useful.

Came across a good one about 5 RSD in the 1940s or 1950s. Tenant put head in the oven, explosion blew out the wall, raining ... uh ... debris on W 73rd St. Forget the apt number, but it's there in the story.

I kind of wonder if this will happen more now.

I learned today about a house where somebody died and 2 people got injured in a fire. Does the fact that everybody in the neighborhood knows that happened lower the value of the property? Do fires have to be disclosed?

A friend of mine lives in the infamous apartment above Carnegie Deli (but it's a rental)

oh good for you 30yrs_RE_20_in_REO

There's always hiring a priest, shaman or psychic house-cleaner to rid the place of whatever aura is lingering there. I know this sounds wacko, but a little sage-smoke can work wonders.

Or you could just vacuum and damp-mop and be done with it.

FYI NYS law says that the fact that a murder occured in the apt is not a "material defect"

§ 443-a. Disclosure obligations. 1. Notwithstanding any other
provision of law, it is not a material defect or fact relating to
property offered for sale or lease, including residential property
regardless of the number of units contained therein, that:

(b) the property is, or is suspected to have been, the site of a
homicide, suicide or other death by accidental or natural causes, or any
crime punishable as a felony.

Sigh ………..… I remember when people trolled thru obits actually LOOKING for an apartment that someone had recently died in. Those were the days …… Modern day real estate hunters are way too soft.

Tks inaru.

This thread is 2 years old.
wow!

I think there are estate conditions at good prices due to murder or death.

Ever wonder about a rental- who has been there before? Especially tenements.

Nah, never wondered about that. Especially not in tenements.

Have there been any more murder situations?

Have you seen any ghosts in that apartment?

Contact "TAPS". Ghost-hunters.

THIS THREAD!!!

Back from the dead!

i hear ty byrd hooked the ghost up with this apartment. he (it?) was a very satisfied customer.

haha!

oh no!

speaking of murders in apartments......i walked passed the homicide unit this past friday night, only to learn from taxi tv that there was a murder in chelsea..... man bound and gagged found dead in his apartment and apartment ransacked..... ughh.... scary...

if the guy bought it 5 years ago when he posted this thread, the price of this condo already double at least

Have there been any more murder situations?

To answer the original question, based on its decision in Stambovsky v. Ackerley, a case
involving a haunted house, the First Department would probably allow rescission of the
contract based upon the non-disclosure

Not all murdered people are haunters.

huntersburg:
Not all haunters are murdered people.

New Website Tracks How Many People Have Died In Your House
http://www.diedinhouse.com/

a 2007 Associated Press Poll found that 1/3 of Americans admit to believe in Ghost.

Just go with the [blood] flow, get chalk outline pattern wall-to-wall carpeting & be done with it.

Problem solved!

anonymous, grow up you stupid sissy. Probably lots of murders happen in New York apartments, what with all the lunatics and degenerates that reside in your city. Just look at the losers on this site..............

Crazyccardo, just admit it, you love New York.

http://youtu.be/Xa0HOpQRpLM

MlBNYC: Thanks for that Ja Bob link.
Although he did not shoot "the sheriff" in a NYC apt. He "did not shoot the deputy", here or anywhere.

fieldschester, of course I do. I adore it. I'm just not crazy enough to live here.