to the co-op board that rejected me, you know who you are

What makes you say that the board was racist? It sounds from your "pig" statement that you are.
Again another example that wealth is no substitute for common sense.

Inheritence????

Have a nice day

cause i saw their faces when i walked in the room

no, hedge funds

In this day and age, any coop would be pleased to take on someone (regardless of color) with the right financials. The question is not if you were going all cash for an expensive unit, or offered maintenance in advance. The question is how was the rest of your portfolio - your credit history, your net worth, your debt load, your job history, your age compared to others in the coop your were interviewing for?

The only exception I know of would be potentially an UES prime Fifth Avenue coop - they can be tough if you're not 'their type.' But the same thing happened to my boss (who owns his own hedge fund, and whose financials were terrific). He wanted in on a Park Avenue coop, and was rejected. In his case, I believe it was because of age - he was 34 at the time, and his wife was 28. They happen to be caucasian. I think the coop board felt they were just too young, might be 'partiers' (although they're really not at all), and in general, just thought they weren't enough like them.

I have to say, in most cases, the broker in a high value case like this either knows someone on the coop board and lets them know who's applying (and would mention your background in passing), or the coop owner would do the same. In addition, a smart coop owner wouldn't go to contract with a party and waste their own time if they really felt you didn't have a shot with their board - and they, already living in the building and dealing with the board, would know if the board was more or less color blind. So I don't really buy your argument that no-one on that coop board knew you were African American until you stepped foot in the room, and they were genuinely surprised, and made a snap judgement right then about the issue. The coop board would have been wiser to simply reject your package BEFORE and not even allowed the interview, and that way could have given the appearance of being 'color blind.'

Assumung the original poster really went through this and genuinely felt stereotyped, this is an AWFUL experience to go through. There's really no need for the hostile reply posts.

With your net worth, there are plenty of other options out there in Manhattan (I'm envious) - good luck!

ditto! as a (caucasian) buyer I wouldn't want to live in a building like that, assuming they rejected you on basis of color...who would reject good candidates because of such nonesense. From an economic standpoint it's a huge red flag if you're going to sell.

I do know, however, that some coops have a bias against people in i-banking or asset mgt because their income streams are variable and, let's face it - that part of the job market is cyclical.

Either way, $8m can buy you a lot in the city....plus would you really want to live with people like that coop board?

ps: you can rate coop boards, www.wallfly.com

I say screw the board. Better to get rejected bow than to be accepted and find out later that all suck. And it saves you the hassel of trying to sell to an "acceptable" buyer down the road.

Yeah, i think as we move into the future and NYC continues to evolve this crazy coop crap will slowly start to disappear and buildings will eventually go condo. I typically think the people on here who keep talking about this impending real estate bust that we are in the middle of are a bit crazy and really don't understand the benifits to buyer property, but then you hear about stories like this where a buyer seems to be totally qualified to buy a place is rejected. I started thinking the other day and realized that if boards are going to keep such stringent rules for acceptace and that these boards will end up not allowing apartments in their building to go for fair market value. IE market value might be 1 million but the requirements of the board would make it tough for anyone making a salry that would only allow them to buy an 800K apartment (according to the boards rules) when they could have infact afforded the place. Did anyone follow that rant? I think I was all over the place.

Its their club and we can not join.

What's the board like at 740 Park?

Tough

what, race lines in the land of the free? Dun´t think so

When it comes to co-op boards there are 2 things going on - 1, are you someone we want to go into business with & do you have enough economic wherewithal to not hurt the company/building - 2, this is our 'club' and would we want you to join (sometimes not a bad thing to be able to choose your neighbors). If they don't want you, you don't want them (f 'em)

oh hedge funds, not hedge fund. Wow a true big shot who runs multiple funds as opposed to one fund. Most guys who run multiple funds really have time to go back and forth on real estate message boards with anonymous posters in their spare time. Real sick and twisted dude.

ha! so true. note to original poster - walking in with an attitude gets you nowhere but out the door. try some class.

get some violin lessons....

I never walked in there with an attitude, I had too much riding on this and looked forward to the interview.
I already had a 860K deposit in escrow

if you REALLY want to back at them try posting the bulding address on this blog...hee hee

Sorry this happened to you - that really sucks. Yeah - would LOVE to know the bldg.

I am totally shocked - and saddened by this discussion. Someone posts a story of racism, and people respond by attacking him. Those who do the attacking are the ones lacking in class. A person who has $8MM in cash from investing, regardless of color, religion, whatever is clearly an accomplished and talented individual. It is not only sad that the co-op board rejected him, but it is sadder that you people are attacking him and questioning his class and attitude.

To the original poster - if what you say is true, you should take action against that co-op. Bigots like that should be exposed.

And what I hate is that everyone IMMEDIATELY assumes (as does the initial poster) that the rejection had to do with fact that he/she was an African American! I mean, coop boards reject for LOTS of the inane reasons - if the units in the building cost $8MM+, it's possible the board requires the prospective buyer to have (in liquid cash and investments) a many times multiple of the cost of the unit. The board may feel the potential buyer was too young and there might be noise/party problems. The board may have felt that they didn't like the general demeanor of the potential buyer. The board may worry about a young person in the hedge fund world who hasn't a long enough proven financial track record blowing up their fund and going broke overnight. The board may not like the fact that the buyer is planning on doing a large renovation that will make lots of noise, kick up dust, and create problems for others in the coop. In short, there's LOTS and LOTS of reasons why people get rejected - white people, black people, and all other colors as well. In addition, do you know for a FACT that there are no African Americans (or othre people of color) currently in this building? Or are you just playing the race card because it's just SOOOOO CONVENIENT, and whenever you don't get what you want, well, that MUST be the problem - why, how could it be any other?!?!?

I also agree with poster #4 above in their third paragraph. Your broker should have known what the hell the board was like in this particular building, and what your chances realisticly were (given the cost of the unit). Did you talk to your broker in advance of the board meeting? What did they tell you? That you were a 'sure thing?' That your financials were 'perfect?' That the building is very 'liberal?' Had they sold other units in this building before? Did your broker know ANYTHING about ANYTHING?

To the poster above who wrote: "Or are you just playing the race card because it’s just SOOOOO CONVENIENT , and whenever you don’t get what you want, well, that MUST be the problem – why, how could it be any other??"

We are a nation with a deep and dark history of racism. Blacks, Jews, Native Americans, Muslims, etc etc have always had a barrier to overcome. While I am white, it seems reasonable to me that the board's decision here was based on race, not finances. Someone with 8MM in cash does not have a liquidity problem. If they did, they'd put down $2MM and take out a mortgage for the rest. A person who made $8MM at his hedge fund - AFTER tax - is likely to have a string track record and is therefore highly employable. It is reasonable to assume that the original poster does not have financial problems with his application. Furthermore, given this nation and this city's history, it is reasonable to assume that his race was a factor - which is a sad commentary on how little we've changed.

And just for full disclosure, I am not some sort of bleeding heart liberl. I am a Republican, a financial professional, and am white. Yet I am believer that discrimination based on race, religion, or sexual orientation is terrible and intolerable.

In response, as I said above, the ability to buy an $8MM+ coop is not the issue. Many fancier coop buildings along Fifth and Park require a 5-10 MULTIPLE of that amount in liquid reserves, as standard operating procedure. I'm not saying that this was the case in this specific building or not, but it is VERY possible. If so, the buyer has to have the $8MM+ in CASH to buy the place, plus ANOTHER $20MM, $30MM, or much more in liquid assets in addition to that. As to your point that anyone "...who made $8MM at his hedge fund – AFTER tax – is likely to have a string track record and is therefore highly employable..." - did you hear the recent story about Brian Hunter and Amaranth? THAT'S the kind of stuff that makes coop boards nervous around very young wealthy hedge fund traders (black, white, or any other color).

In addition, BEFORE you cry racism (which is a VERY SERIOUS CHARGE and should not be bandied about casually), again I ask - are there ANY African Americans (or people of other color) currently livinfg in the building? It would seem to me that one would, at the very least, confirm THAT specific point before immediately accusing an entire coop board of racism. And again, I say, where the hell is the broker in all this? One of their primary jobs is assembling and reviewing the board package, reviewing the board's past behavior, and telling their client whether they have a shot or not...

To the poster 2 blogs above me, the board would have seen the applicant's financials and would not have moved forward with a meeting unless they were ok with it. Most coop boards are mainly interested in an applicant's financials. It's the fancier buildings that are more exclusive and particular.

Sure there could be all kinds of intangible reasons why he was rejected....we weren't flies in the wall...either way it's too bad. I'm dying to know WHICH building this is....

I am the original poster.
Never ever played "any race card."

My wife and I loved the apartment, and we made an offer.
The offer was accepted, next step was the board package.

The board package was a very laborous and detailed application.
They wanted recommendations from at least 10 inviduals, they spoke personally to my manager, then his manager.
They wanted tax forms going back 7 years, they wanted bank records going back 7 years.
The application took days to put together correctly, I needed my attorney and my accountants help to verify everything.

After days of waiting, the anxiety, the interview was no more than 5 minutes.
My wife and I sat down and they asked a few questions about our political contributions ( we donated over the years to both independent and democrat candidates.)
Then the interview was over, with a "Thank you, Sir..you'll be hearing back from us shortly"

But what got me was the eyebrows shooting up and the oh-my look in their faces, when we walked into the room for the interview.

Trust me it's not the first time I have dealt with this nor the last.

Go to www.wallfly.com and join the other wealthy people that have been turned down
for coops. If you indeed have that kind of cash, seems like you would have choosen the condo route to begin with and saved yourself time and trouble. If your story is indeed true...?
Then consider yourself lucky you didn't get accepted. Then move on.

I don't believe everything I read on the net. What is the building address?

I would LOVE to post the address,
however you have to remember these people have about every conceivable financial document and personal information you can imagine. So for me to start a vendetta it would leave me a bit vulnerable.

I was thinking the same thing - it would be stupid for him to post the address guys! duh, like they can't pin him down with his description on here etc. . .

then this story should end. No proof.

If you can prove its racial discrimination then sue the board. You have enough
money to hire an attorney. good luck.

Yeah - but it makes it hard to get another apartment with that lawsuit in your history. The risks are huge if that doesn't work out. . .

y

agreed - you cannot really post the apt. however if what you say is true that is so terrible. sounds like though that you can find somewhere else with your budget that will be beautiful for you and your wife, and another co-op if you choose that route..and the purpose of this posting is then just for you to rant.

Here are some other great apts and "easy" co-op boards:
1 West 72nd Street
200 E. 65th Street
320 Central Park West
770 Park Avenue
927 Fifth Avenue

better off not posting the address.....don't stoop to their level. go to www.wallfly.com. and move on to a better place

Co-op boards are so incredibly ridiculous. The theory behind them is strong, but anyone who thinks that their decisions are based only on financials and character is just ignoring the facts. In a building like the original gentleman/woman mentioned, the old money club rules and they don't like certain 'kinds' in their midst - easy now, I certainly wasn't singling out race by any means - they hate everyone not like them equally, big dough or not. To the original poster - why don't you leverage yourself a bit and get into this place - http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/64821-townhouse-48-52-seventh-avenue-south-west-village-new-york - no board approval and your own parking spot for when you invite the board that rejected you over for dinner ;)...

Agree with the above poster..... don't be so quick to draw your race card!

From the poster two above: Sorry, hate was a really strong, unfair word - maybe disapprove works better.

1 West 72nd is NOT an easy board, it's the freakin Dakota! What are you, retarded?

if dakota is an easy board than there is no problem with co=op boards at all in NYC

I think the poster suggesting that the Dakota board was easy was being ironic.

:) yep

detection of irony requires a modicum of thought. calling people retarded or an idiot does not. please next time, don't clue him in to the irony, leave him in his warm stupor.

The original poster said, "You should have seen their faces" - if that's where the board's heart is, "God will pay them". There are many stupid people in this world & power corrupts. The best thing to do is just get on & find a better place (would you really want those people as neighbors?)& remember, LIVING WELL IS THE BEST REVENGE.

Wow, coop board rejects applicant! BREAKING NEWS!

"More intriguing insights into the Big Apple's most prestigious residences for the rich and famous — and the co-op boards that are quick to reject millionaires, even billionaires — appear in the new book "High Rise Low Down," a fascinating tour of the city's classiest and most sought-after addresses."

Written by Denise LeFrak Calicchio, daughter of real estate titan Sam LeFrak, with Eunice David and Kathryn Livingston and published by Barricade Books, it will run you $24.95.

It's interesting that everytime a minority gets rejected, they initially counter-attack the situation by using "race" as a factor. I'm a minority who works in the medical field. I'm definitely surprised how ghetto it sounds these days when an individual's ethnic background is used to support their delusional behavior. This is 2007. Ethnic categorization exists; however, it is outrageous to use it out of context without supporting evidence that it may have occured. If you are rejected, you just have to be professional and move on.

OP here read the entire follow up comments.
btw I wouldn't be able to buy an apartment if I was delusional.

I feel for OP.
I recently got my board package rejected. after that, I offered them 50% down and also maintenance escrow but still got rejected. I am in my mid 30 and a VP at a hedge fund. I can't stop thinking about a race discrimination that they didn't want asian in their building. or Asian lady who is in her mid 30 and single. There is no other reasons I can think of. It's ridiculous.

Sophie, Sorry to hear. It must be very disappointing. How much post closing liquidity did you have? Sometimes, coop with a lot of older residents want unreasonable post closing liquidity. I have rarely heard of discrimination against an Asian woman from coop. Perhaps there is some discrimination about young single women which is clearly illegal and nonsense.

Re: discrimination against Asians, I remember there was a building that banned cooking with woks.

Co-ops are a form of legal discrimination in New York. How can New York's politicians stand for such an un-American and discriminatory practice? For such a liberal city as NYC, it's truly shocking that co-ops are permitted to continue engaging in discriminatory behavior.

Co-ops should be required to DISCLOSE why they rejected a candidate.

MissLeonaBrown asks: "How can New York's politicians stand for such an un-American and discriminatory practice."

Because the politicians campaign contributions and votes come from people who live in co-ops. They don't want to offend their constituency. (I'd also suggest that until relatively recently, discrimination of all sorts was the most American of practices.)

From over a decade ago
https://cooperator.com/article/the-laws-of-the-land/full

Disclosure is the bane of a coop’s existence and board members are deathly afraid of litigation. Not that I blame them. 30, do you know if any of these reforms ever were enacted?

As far as I know, no.

Part of the problem is that most coop attorneys tell boards that they can do "whatever they want" and call it "business judgment", and if it ends in litigation it's just an added bonus for them.

Co-op sellers are powerless - if the board keeps rejecting the buyers, the seller can't file a lawsuit because it would make the building difficult to finance and it won't stop the co-op from continuing to be discriminatory or continue rejecting buyers in bad faith.

Totally inefficient and shameful!

Unfortunately, once a coop always a coop. Anyone know of one that successfully converted to condo? Or changed their rules to eliminate the board's ability to discriminate as they desire?

https://cooperator.com/article/co-op-to-condo-conversion/full

30, Thank you for the link. Very informative.

I wonder what happens to the real estate taxes during a conversion from coop to condo. I am sure the city will find some way to increase the taxes. In addition, there is mortgage tax and title insurance cost for a condo which you do not have to pay for a coop.

You also have to pay the gains tax on the sale to yourself.

That is a killer. That is why we do not see many coop to condo conversions. Only people who are interested in selling will vote for coop to condo conversion.