The death of Citigroup and New York as a Banking Center

Now that I've been proved right (yet again) - let's see what happens after the a) JPM London Whale Scandal (and deliberately parking risky trades in the FDIC-insured parts of the bank); and b) the Barclays (and soon JPM, C, BAC, Lloyds, etc., etc. and so on and so forth) LIBOR EURIBOR Scandal.

Banking is broken; re-regulation is here to stay.

PS: LOVE Ft. Lauderdale and my new Mercedes!

The Ellington is calling.

Steve, Florida must really have done a number on your reading comprehension.

What you said: "Charlotte will be the US capital of finance."

What this article you linked to says: "Places like New York or London will remain financial centers" and "Low-level jobs have already migrated to call centers and back offices overseas, while top-end traders and bankers are secure in the New York area."

THAT's what you're taking a victory lap on? Hilarious.

I never said that every finance and banking job would leave NYC, and I never said that it would happen overnight. Neither of those would be true.

But the process of shifting jobs out has begun:

"Low-level jobs have already migrated to call centers and back offices overseas, while top-end traders and bankers are secure in the New York area, experts say. Instead, services like accounting, trading and legal support, and human resources and compliance are being shifted to places like Salt Lake City, North Carolina and Jacksonville, Fla."

And it will continue. Just ask all of the Fat Cat Lawyers who have seen their fees drop and back office and support staff move out of New York & other expensive places. Dewey-LeBouef comes to mind.

With banks, as profit margins are squeezed through regulation, the process will accelerate.

I stand by it.

You stand by a comment you made more than 3 years ago and still isn't true? Sorry, it's just "begun"? What part of "secure in the New York area" is confusing to you? When will Charlotte be the "US capital of finance"?

"After peaking at 213,000 in August 2007, securities industry jobs in the state fell more than 15 percent in the wake of the financial crisis, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Since then they have risen nearly 12,000, but at 191,200, employment is well below pre-crisis levels. By contrast, over the same period, Delaware gained 1,300 securities jobs while Arizona picked up 2,600."

steve must have felt a need while sitting down in Florida to make a fool of himself again on this board. In 2009, after a financial meltdown, he predicts the downfall of NYC's finance industry. Three years later that and he is still ignorantly wrong, but he cites an article about low level back office jobs that already had been moved out of NYC to say he has "begun" to be right.
I'm glad no one listened to steve three years ago about buying NYC real estate, that was another major failed prediction of his.

:)

stevejhx returns to visit us on the street
he's been shvitzing in the Florida heat
if you've got nothing nice to say
he'll get in his Mercedes and drive away

Not coming to stevejhx's defense but this comment

[while top-end traders and bankers are secure in the New York area."]

is laughable!!! Do you know any traders yourself ? almost all the prop traders that I know have left banks b/c of the Volkcer rules, read up, it might help in your arguments. They are high-tailing out of there faster than you can shout "dude!" Now, on top of that, the algo guys are driving, every human traders out of business.

As for the bankers ? Have you seen the recent stats for M&A and IPOs ? Yeah, banking is "D.O.A" too.

Therefore, to nitpick those two points and claim a victory lap on your end is also hilarious. For the record, I think stevejhx is right on the direction, i.e., NYC is declining, but is very, very wrong on the timing! As always, it boils down to the timing.

str33teasier, no idea how valid that statement is - found it funny that Steve was taking his victory lap while pointing to an article (as his only real evidence) that said those exact words. But Steve's always been hilarious. I don't think there's much question that Wall St ain't what it was (having lost 10% of its workforce). But it's another thing entirely to proclaim that "Charlotte will be the US capital of finance." Or wait, is it Delaware and Arizona now?

>Or wait, is it Delaware and Arizona now?

Or Williamsburg, where the rules regarding mortgages and taxes don't apply like in the rest of the country.

"Instead, services like accounting, trading and legal support, and human resources and compliance are being shifted to places like Salt Lake City, NORTH CAROLINA and Jacksonville, Fla."

"The federal government DOES NOT SPECIFICALLY TRACK securities jobs in Utah, NORTH CAROLINA or Florida, popular locations for near-shoring. But data from firms illustrates the trend."

"Credit Suisse’s staff in the New York region has dropped by 500 in the past four years, but the firm has added 450 positions in NORTH CAROLINA’s Research Triangle, in the area of Raleigh, Cary, Durham and Chapel Hill."

"J. Keith Crisco, the NORTH CAROLINA secretary of commerce, visits New York three to five times a year, meeting with executives from firms already in NORTH CAROLINA, like Credit Suisse, while reaching out to prospects. Another trip is planned this month."

"NORTH CAROLINA provided Credit Suisse with roughly $14 million in incentives to bring it to the state."

Steve, what's your point? You don't like New York anymore?

Steve, talk about grasping at straws. Best part is a whopping 450 positions added in NC! And not one of them in Charlotte!

Your ignorance precedes you, bjw - I'm glad that nothing's changed!

You're right, nothing's changed. Charlotte is still not the US capital of finance.

Someone was recently complaining here that the quality of discussions had fallen dramatically - now you know why (and why I left)! Instead of dealing with the facts as presented - which are reliable, based on companies' own data - bjw resorts to ridicule.

Very sad, but the facts are the facts - and exactly as I stated, finance jobs are being exported out of New York State, because the costs are too high.

That was, in fact, the whole reason why Bloomberg subsidized the Cornell University expansion on Roosevelt Island - NYC was a one-horse town, all based on one industry, which is in decline, and he wanted to diversify the economic base.

And yes - jobs are measured in the HUNDREDS. Today's job report showed 80,000 net jobs created in the US in June 2012, out of a population of 300 MILLION. So how many of those 80,000 net jobs would be created in Charlotte, or Delaware, or anyplace else?

Just a few hundred.

And if NYC's total finance jobs is down by about 21,000, how many jobs would be exported elsewhere?

Several thousand, just as indicated.

So, so sad that people can't have a rational discussion here - I'm gone again, after having run my VICTORY LAP, because exactly what I said would happen is happening: NYC's net number of finance jobs is dropping, and they are being exported to cheaper parts of the country. And the trend is going to accentuate into the future.

But no more discussion; I can't deal with fools any longer.

Bye-bye!

No, don't leave.

I told you steve would get in his Mercedes and drive away.

"Ship of fools
on a foolish sea
ship of fools
sail away from me..." (Garcia/Hunter/Lesh)

Steve, the reason you're "leaving" has nothing to do with rational conversation. It's your inability to respond whenever someone points out how questionable some of your grand claims are. Are some back office jobs being pushed out of New York to other, cheaper cities? Of course - no one here is really denying that.

What I am denying is that Charlotte is somehow on its way to being the "US capital of finance" as you explicitly said. There remains a disproportionate concentration of financial "talent" (I use that term very lightly here obviously) in this city - the very article you cited says as much. Yes, they're making less than they're used to, but that's going to be true anywhere, and while the industry undergoes this correction, it should not be surprising that the lower-level (read: more expendable) jobs are going elsewhere. But to claim what you're claiming is something entirely different.

"NYC was a one-horse town, all based on one industry"

Steve, even you must know that that is a completely ridiculous statement. This town is far more diverse economically that you're giving it credit for.

I don't think steve has any realistic understanding of the depths of ridiculousness of his statements. If he cannot understand that New York will remain a premier city for business and finance, as well as media and fashion, and that Bloomberg is wisely expanding infrastructure for the tech industry, due to New York's incredible infrastructure, diverse worker base, premier global location and cultural institutions, then he is as delusional as ever. As long as the politicians stay out of the way with their anti-business policies (a big if), New York will be fine.

Please, let him go. The discussions have been so much more civil, intelligent and fact-based without him. Let him stay quiet in his delusions.

"NYC was a one-horse town, all based on one industry"

>Steve, even you must know that that is a completely ridiculous statement. This town is far more diverse economically that you're giving it credit for.

And even you were stubborn about the one horse, the town does perodically change lead horses.
Pre finance the horse was clothing. Post finance maybe tech? social media? etc.

PS-Charlotte is so unbelievably boring you'd actually rather live in India.

edit- And even "if" you........

>PS-Charlotte is so unbelievably boring you'd actually rather live in India.

What's your issue with India?

I know a banker who refused to move to Charlotte because there's no food there.

So, follow the logic... we get better at tech... we increase the share of media...

that means the economics look closer and closer to....
other places with LOWER prices.

It isn't a bad thing to have a fallback plan. But let us not pretend that incomes go down considerably if those take on bigger shares...

Check out RE prices in the other tech hubs. See what Austin prices are like?

And know what media salaries are like? You don't have 22 year olds making $100k...

what are Austin prices like?

$125k median house price

Sound like a lot more air to come out of the bubble

Steve, please don't hibernate again! You really get things going on this site. I love to see all the old adversaries back in action. This is what this site has been missing! Welcome back!

Well, somewhereelse is now comparing NYC to Austin. inododo compared NYC to Wayne, NJ. What do we need steve for?

to compare LIC with FLL. DUH.

Love when you use IATA codes.