Imagine spending hours with a renter

No one wants to be cheated. If you put in an honest effort, and your client get the outcome he or she wanted (the right apartment, etc.) and you've been cut out after you've made that deal happen for that client, then you've been cheated. The problem is, the whole rental market is 1 - too expensive by way of pricing for services and 2 - partly as a result of #1 and partially by several other factors including in many instances untrustworthly landlords who in many instances should be covering a rental broker's fee, full of distrust and misaligned incentives.

All I can say is that you know this, it is a price of doing business, and consider a different line of business where you can offer true servives and there is no stigma on both sides of the equation.

bmw:
Sounds a bunch like the waiter who gets stiffed after providing great service for two hours. Come to think of it, its the exact same thing, same skill set, same barriers to entry, same hair cut. Its part of the job, get over it.

Spending hours with a bitter renter is something that scares me. Just the thought of it is going to give me horrible nightmares tonight so I won't be able to sleep. THanks a lot. I guess I will just watch re-runs of Olbermann, Maddow, and Matthews all night long. Oh well.

bmw, your post doesn't make much sense. Who were you representing? The landlord or the renter? How did they go around you? In either case, you should've asked them to sign something before doing the work.

Unfortunately, the vast, vast majority of your profession is completely dishonest. If you're one of the exceptions, that doesn't justify someone ripping you off. But it does mean you should protect yourself, and shouldn't cry if you failed to go that and got ripped off.

Thanks to all who responded, it actually somehow made me feel better. I agree with gleeclub that if owners/landlords provided more incentives, and I am referring particularly to private owners instead of large landlords like Glenwood and Rockrose, because they do offer incentives, but people usually want boutique apartments and that comes at a price. Anyway, offering to pay the broker's fee and tacking it on to the monthly rent, isn't always great either, everything is not what it seems.

Patient09, I would say that in this situation, I provided more service than a waiter. These people contacted me, from abroad, looking for a particular place, in a particular location. I happen to know the area very well and I am experienced in all types of rentals, private, regular, furnished, short, long - you name it. What they wanted required a lot of calling around, and asking around, it required me to negotiated down rental terms, and rental prices, commissions that the listing brokers were requesting, it required more than two hours and it required me spending money on international calls. I am very open and honest and I work hard and disclose locations and prices and who has it listed and how it works. I usually have awesome clients, they become my friends and appreciate my work ethic. Given my open nature, I found a place and told that listing agent of that property who my clients were when he asked, similarly, and told the clients the address -I trusted them fully. What happened is that one of the parties, perhaps the agent who seemed to know who my clients were, contacted them directly, offered them a lower commission and cut me out of my deal!
As much as it upsets me, and it actually "pisses me off" I doubt that I will change my style as to how I work with people and I will likely experience this again. I could likely get another job, and get paid hourly, but then I would be unhappy, I am trying to make it as a real estate agent doing hard work, and working with whatever luck brings me - I wasn't born out of a cash cow and I don't hang out in the elite club, I am a regular, hard-working, well educated, interesting gal trying to work.

"Given my open nature, I found a place and told that listing agent of that property who my clients were when he asked, similarly, and told the clients the address -I trusted them fully."

You are in the wrong business to be this trusting. Don't you have recourse with the other agent?

I often get the feeling that many brokers do not understand the depth of contempt and distrust people looking to buy or rent have for brokers.

Juiceman, I realize that I might have to polish on my "street smarts," but it is unfortunate, because you meet someone you want to work for and you have to say "before you get too friendly with me, sign here, because you might screw me over" ha ha ha. Because I did not have anything in writing as newbuyer09 delineated, then, no, I do have have recourse.

bmw, I am so sorry this happened to you. In three years, I've had it happen twice -- interestingly enough, both referrals. One was a relative "kid" who was sort of shocked when I went back to the referrer and mentioned that I had been stiffed -- the other was the head of a NY non-profit who said she felt sorry that I was cut out of the deal after working for a week straight, so she promised to have me over for barbecue!

All I can say is that if you're marketing right, you'll get more "good" clients than bad ones, and the "good" clients will be so thrilled with your services that they'll end up pulling the freight.

But it is a little sad that we live in a culture where so many people feel that they have no obligation to pay their bills. Look at that Obama appointee who couldn't be bothered to pay his taxes!

ali r.
{downtown broker}

Waaah! I lost a commission. Waaah! I'm entitled to a commission just because I made some phone calls. Let's look at it this way- perhaps they wouldn't have circumvented you if you were at all doing a good job; you failed to seal the deal. Just because you spend days doing a half-assed job doesn't mean you are automatically entitled to a payout.

Ali r. thanks for the positive comment, and I am sorry that this happened to you.

bmw, most unfortunate. You can still be the wonderful person you are & use safer practices that would protect you, I think. When you insist on the agreement being signed, blame your accountant or business manager but get it signed! Also, don't be so forthcoming because yes, there are sharks out there who will eat you just because they are sharks. You need to protect yourself & see what you can learn for future dealings. As for the #%^@*&%)@^ people who feel that all real estate professionals are to be disparaged, they'd be WAILING if someone abused them. Learn to take care of yourself, luv!

What goes around comes around...

And to think you could have spent that time at the tanning salon.

imagine spending time with a broker --

who brings you to a bunch of buildings that you could do directly despite the fact that you made it clear that you want to see other places you could not find on your own (ie actually expecting some value for 2 months rent or more than $10K) , and fills in a bunch of apartments that when you finally say you like it -- he lets you know that it is actually not available -- but that they often have listings in that building.... but not now , so now he has shown it to you he gets a fee....

The crap works both ways....

mf: I think your scenario is more typical than some of the negative Broker stories. Not to mention the fact that "usually" you are shown apts that don't match the criteria you gave the Broker. I guess that is why most rental brokers are self confessed "bottom feeders".

I'm about to rent in a rental building and I was given a copy of the lease to look at - I've never rented in a pure rental building so I don't know how this typically goes.
I've always paid my own electric but never for gas, heat, hot water. Is that normal that a tenant now pays for heat and hot water? This is a rent stabilized building (421A) and the lease says

13.Services and Facilities
A. Required Services. Owner will providee cold water [CROSSED OUT: and hot water and heat] as required by law.
B. The following utilities are included in the rent: water and gas for cooking purposes only.

MF, "both ways" is exactly the problem. You get such bad service because the no-pays drive lots of "good" brokers to be sales-only.

At this point I'm listing rentals, but I rarely rep tenants. The ones I work with generally try to hunt for an apartment for themselves and get driven to me by how hateful the process is.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

drdrd thanks for the positive feedback. I appreciate it, and you are right, I really have to start watching out!

Jerkstone, I could of gone to mars and back :) I could of slept, or baked cookies, or spent more hours on streeteasy :) that's what is so irritating about it.

ali r. at this point, I do enjoy sales more than I do rentals, because there is a level of commitment that is truly appreciated, also sometimes by the time I am done working with a rental client, I have earned two pennies per hour, because the ones that do pay the broker fee sometimes for interesting rentals, expect for you to become their personal assistant or matchmaker. Nice people, but they do think the fee can last for any other incidental :) This is not to say anything bad about my previous clients who I have done deals with because no matter what incidentals they were, they gave me business and i provided a service - the service, which included not wasting time on rental buildings that although cheap, are trash.

BMW - Welcome to real estate

Unfortunately, your soft skin will soon be as rough as a diamond.

In the rental market, this is not uncommon and a typical situation, but what makes a good boxer is the ability to take blows and get back up. Shake out your sillies and get back into action. Providing your service consumes your time, energy and updated product knowledge…putting yourself in the renters shoes, if they found a better apartment on their own, so be it. First, they should have informed you and been honest about the matter, but the end result is your “clients” finding something suitable to their expectations. In these situations, ensure that you continue to keep in contact..if you did a good job and the relationship has not been shattered, ask for a letter of recommendation and leave on a good note.

Numbers are the game, but people are alive….do not let this occurrence over consume you, for it will eat you up…. This past summer, I spent 2 months with a client looking for an apartment in UES (Carnegie Hill) for $8,000. They ended up renting for $12,000. We still communicate to this day…its part of the market….

I would say if the sales market was better, shift in that direction..

Robert Madrid –R.E Salesperson

Sales is where its at

Ali, I agree that "both ways" is the problem, but I think you have the cause and effect reversed. Unfortunately, I think there are so many sleazy "used car salesmen" agents who do rentals because there are so many gullible clients. So, once the clients get "taken", they get bitter. Plus those of us that are forced to deal with the sleaze when we rent, form similarly nasty opinions about the brokerage community. Unfortunately, those opinions are justified 90%+ of the time. By the way, my experience is that most sales agents aren't much better, just more refined sleaze.

Because of 90% of your colleagues that are sleaze, I think the buyers, sellers, renters over-generalize and think nothing of screwing over a broker. This sucks for the 10% that get the undeserved bad rep, and sucks for bmw in his/her situation. I am not saying any of this justifies the screwing someone over, but I do think it partially explains it.

Not all brokers are "used car salesman". I have worked with both and there is a huge difference when you find a good one.(buyer's broker) It is not fair to lump them all together. Special ones work hard and deserve to get paid. I hate this system. I think a day's work should be compensated, not bet on the prospect of a purchase. I hope this real estate market leads to a change in the real estate industry.

You know bmw, we could throw a party for your single clients and my single clients ... ;>

ali r.
{downtown broker}

hahahah, that would be fun Ali r. what a good idea :)

>the other was the head of a NY non-profit

Not for profit doesn't mean that the CEO doesn't make big $.

For rentals - if the fee is 5%, not 15% - which is a lot, the situation is different.
For sales - if the fee is 3%, not 6% - which is a lot, the situation is also different.

So its circular?