the harlem dream

I remember the late 80's and early 90's well. What happened was the following - as real estate prices rose to epic proportions, people who wanted to buy but couldn't afford 'prime' locations (whatever that means to you), looked further afield (places like Harlem being one of them). When the market came in hard during the early 90's, the 'further afield' places like Harlem really took a severe beating on a percentage basis compared to 'prime' locations (like, say, the Village). A lot of people lost their places if they were heavily leveraged, or had gotten involved with questionable financing.

Having said that, the location you mention could be could be a good long term investment if it's really on Fifth and has Park views - that's always worth serious consideration. But if it's off the Park and has no views to mention, I think you have to be very thoughtful about why you're buying now, how long you realistically want to live there, how you're financing the mortgage, and how much you're leveraging yourself in order to purchase the place.

I'm not passing judgement on whether Harlem is a good place to live or not - I'm only talking about dollars and sense.

the place i am looking at is right on 5th ave across from the park. however it is a low floor (2nd) . we can see the park absolutely but it is a low floor

i am getting the feeling that you believe prices will come down in manhattan is that your opinion?

I'm poster #2 above - It's great that it's on the Park and has direct views. A bit of a bummer that it's not higher up, both due to the fact that it's nice to be at treetop height or higher for the view, and the noise from Fifth Avenue may (or may not) be a problem. Also, do the parades come up that high? This can be a big drag every Saturday or Sunday in the summer when there seems to be a parade for something or other every damn weekend tieing up traffic (but that's just a pet peeve of mine, along with those damn street fairs). Since I don't know the specifics (the type and quality of the building, the size, layout and condition of the unit, the price, the comps, your personal financial situation, etc.) it's rally hard to make any useful judgement call. But I will say that if I had to live between 96th and 110th on the East Side, I'd ONLY want to be on Fifth, on the Park.

are you a real estate adv isor? i could use your help. great condition , mint apt, renovated pre war. classic 7 for 3mil

I wouldn't buy above 96th on the east side unless I was on Fifth, just for personal security reasons.

I wouldn’t buy above 96th on the east side unless I was on Fifth, just for personal security reasons.

people that look for trouble usually find it

it is on fifth ave and on the park

I'd happily buy above 96th, and if you've been following the market, we're way beyond there.

anyone that is afraid/hesitant/ignorant/bigoted about what is above 96th street can stay under there...

uptown is beautiful with some of nyc's most remarkable architecture, i.e. Convent Avenue

to the last two posts above (#10/11):

you're not answering the initial question. the person isn't asking if Harlem (or parts of it) are a nice place to live - they're asking specifically about Harlem as an investment for alot of their hard earned money and what they need to think about before they make that investment. The answer given in the first paragraph of post #2 is pretty much on point and correct, from what I know and have experienced with Manhattan real estate in the past as well.

and post #11, knock off the ridculous knee jerk reactions accusing people of being ignorant and bigoted just because they may not feel that Harlem is the best investment in the long run. just because someone disagrees with your pov doesn't mean they hate what you. grow up!

so is 3mil for a low level apt on 5th across from the park too much?

yes

Is that the Emory Roth building next to the hospital? There's another thread here about that one. 3 mil is a lot of money but it's on the park. Is that far north on CPW also considered sketchy? Does that part of Fifth just suffer in contrast to all the opulence to the south?

I am a real estate broker and believe 150% in the future of Harlem. There will always be those who feel that they aren't "safe" and those individuals should definitely remain within their "comfort zone". Having been born and raised in New York City, I have seen many neighborhoods change. That being said, I think the Harlem market will continue to prosper. Manhattan isn't getting any bigger and people are moving above 96th Street because of the value that is offered. Washington Heights has seen an increase of 94% over the last 2 years and certain units in East Harlem have seen appreciation values of up to 76% over the last 3 years. To the individual who is asking whether or not they should purchase on 5th Avenue and 101st Street, I ask that you take your quality of living into account before considering it an investment. If the market should decline (which I don't foresee to be honest with you), will you be happy to call this property home? Unlike a stock that loses value, you will at least have a place to live to show for it. If this property is offering you amenities that will improve your quality of living, I say go for it. If in the long run it proves to be a profitable investment, even better. I don't think you can go wrong with a 5th Avenue address. I hope this helps in some way. For the individual that suggested that North of 96th Street isn't safe, I happen to disagree. I have lived North of 96th Street for over 13 years and don't have a scratch on me. It is impossible to guarantee safety in any neighborhood. I don't know if you recall a few months back when they arrested a top level executive of Citigroup (or Citibank) for producing crystal meth in his luxury high rise apartment on the Upper East Side? Crime is everywhere, not just North of 96th Street.

excellent post Jarmsstead.
esp the reference to the meth lab on the upper east side.
can you imagine how contaminated the building must be along with apartment?
The effects of meth labs on the enviroment are horrendous, the DEA has a link on its site with a map of meth labs that have closed.

jarmstead, crime might be everywhere but eaten chicken drumsticks can only be found in harlem on the sidewalk.

#18, stay in Jersey will ya