Demonstrate Market Movement with Comps: Rental Edition

155 West 68th Street
2BR/1.5BA

10/31/2007 Previously listed in StreetEasy by Elliman for $4,500
04/22/2008 Elliman listing rented at $4,100
01/28/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $3,700
02/17/2009 Price decreased to $3,500

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/456956-condo-155-west-68th-street-lincoln-square-new-york?email=true

1 River Terrace
3br/3ba

01/01/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Charles Rutenberg at $9,875
01/12/2009 Price decreased to $9,500
01/15/2009 Price decreased to $8,699
02/10/2009 Price decreased to $8,000
02/18/2009 Price decreased to $7,795

340 E. 23rd
2br/2ba

10/14/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Avenue Real Estate at $5,500
11/19/2008 Price decreased to $5,000
11/26/2008 Price decreased to $4,950
03/02/2009 Price decreased to $4,650

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/422935-condo-340-east-23rd-street-gramercy-park-new-york

80 John St.(Financial District)
2 br/2ba 1550 sf

12/14/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $5,600
01/11/2009 Price decreased to $4,500

awkward floorplan
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/445249-condo-80-john-street-financial-district-new-york

15 Broad St. (Financial District)

30 rental units, from $2,900 for studios to over $12,000 for penthouse 2-3 bedrooms
Many price decreases

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/15-broad-street-new_york

20 Pine St. (Financial District)

50 rental units, from high $2k for studios to $15k for 1500+sf 3br
Again, many price decreases from $400 on the studios to $3k for the largest units

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/20-pine-street-new_york

These are not comps. Price cuts don't mean anything. Instead, in order to track the movement of the market, you have to compare the asking prices to similar units that have already been rented.

177 W. 26th St
3 br/1ba 1200 sf

03/27/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Nestseekers at $5,800
02/17/2009 Price decreased to $4,350

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/308997-rental-177-west-26th-street-chelsea-new-york

395 Broadway
2 br/1.5 ba 1200 sf

12/09/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $6,500
01/23/2009 Price decreased to $5,000

alpine, there's no proof for rentals, so this is as good as you can do without insider info. Although, maybe it should have been labelled a price chopper thread.

30 West Street (Battery Park City)

16 rental units from studios to 3 brs
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/30-west-street-new_york

Example:
2 br/2ba 1150 sf

12/16/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $4,750
01/22/2009 Price decreased to $4,490
02/04/2009 Price decreased to $4,150
02/18/2009 Price decreased to $3,995

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/446047-condo-30-west-street-battery-park-city-new-york

505 Greenwich St
1 bd/1 ba 722 sf

08/13/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $5,750
09/04/2008 Price decreased to $5,500
10/20/2008 Price decreased to $5,195
11/14/2008 Price decreased to $4,995
01/29/2009 Price decreased to $4,450

42 King St
1 br/1 ba

10/17/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Stribling at $6,500
01/15/2009 Price decreased to $6,000
01/16/2009 Price decreased to $5,800
02/11/2009 Price decreased to $4,800

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/423842-coop-42-king-street-soho-new-york

77 Park Ave
2 br/1.5 ba 950 sf

06/12/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Fenwick Keats Goodstein at $5,000
07/14/2008 Price decreased to $4,200
07/30/2008 Price decreased to $4,000
10/31/2008 Price decreased to $3,800
11/11/2008 Price increased to $4,000
11/12/2008 Price decreased to $3,800
02/04/2009 Price decreased to $3,250

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/367589-condo-77-park-avenue-murray-hill-new-york

140 E. 56th St
2br/2ba

05/20/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Halstead Property at $7,000
06/05/2008 Price decreased to $5,900
02/04/2009 Price decreased to $4,500

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/349959-condo-140-east-56th-street-midtown-new-york

116 Central Park South
1 br/1ba furnished

07/03/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by CBHK at $4,000
08/15/2008 Price decreased to $3,800
11/08/2008 Price decreased to $3,750
11/12/2008 Price decreased to $3,700
11/21/2008 Price decreased to $3,300
01/28/2009 Price decreased to $3,000

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/383485-rental-116-central-park-south-central-park-south-new-york

135 W. 58th St
3 br/2ba 1300sf duplex

09/11/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Bellmarc at $5,995
02/11/2009 Price decreased to $4,995

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/412201-coop-135-west-58th-street-times-square-new-york

Let's see if we can revive this thread.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/236121-coop-48-west-86th-street-upper-west-side-new-york
10/17/2007 Listed by Prudential Elliman at $13,750.
10/26/2007 Price decreased by 9% to $12,500.
12/13/2007 Delisted.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/591887-rental-48-west-86th-street-upper-west-side-new-york?email=true
10/30/2009 Listed by Corcoran at $12,500.
12/02/2009 Price decreased by 12% to $10,950.
12/24/2009 Price decreased by 6% to $10,250.
01/17/2010 Price decreased by 3% to $9,950.
02/09/2010 Price decreased by 5% to $9,450.

Down 25% from 2007 so far, let's see if this gets it done.

i'm fond of this one. any bets? it sold for $8,895,000, 10/08, then sold again for $10,500,000 05/09. $60,000 would have covered all costs (other than opportunity costs of down payment) under a mythical 20% down, 7% interest scenario. the listing is confusing, but it still is listed as active in the rental listings for the building.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/591049-rental-250-east-53rd-street-sutton-place-new-york

11/06/2008Previously Listed by Corcoran at $60,000.
05/12/2009Corcoran Listing is no longer available.
08/13/2009Previously Listed by Pari Passu at $45,000.
09/20/2009Previously Listed by P.S. Burnham Inc. at $45,000.
10/27/2009Previously Listed by Corcoran at $39,500.
10/28/2009Listed by Corcoran at $39,500.
10/28/2009Pari Passu Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $39,000.
10/28/2009Corcoran Listing is no longer available.
11/04/2009P.S. Burnham Inc. Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $39,000.

Young Padawan, so much have you to learn about the ways of the rich. It was financed for $6M with an interest-only ARM at 3.53% indexed to 6-month LIBOR + 1.95%. So a monthly carry of $22.5K. However, the ARM reset from Nov should have put it down to 2.5%, so now a monthly carry of $17.5K. Suffice it to say that between the abated taxes and eventual rise in LIBOR, that's probably as low as it'll ever get. Assuming our muted-inflation era of bliss continues peacefully and we see LIBOR averaging 2-3%, then an average carry of $30-35K with full taxes, I'd guess.

To answer your bet, I'll bid $30K (though with probably a $35K final ask).

And hey, that's not a comp, that's a chop! The nerve!

Crap, what am I saying. Like a 6-month-old listing moved to a new broker with an inflated square footage and a 3% reduction, this thread needs all the traffic it can get to revive.

see, nada, i told you i wasn't rich. i'll do better next time. this one just amuses me so. $60,000 a month to live at 2nd and 53rd. it's not even the charming part of midtown east. it is close to the buttercup cafe (offshoot of magnolia), however, so there is that.

given the difficulty in comping rentals (although SE seems to have made it a lot easier recently) i'd say this might best serve as a "movement" (so to speak) thread generally.

Always a price for everything, I think. But unfortunately, it ain't $60K for a $10M apartment irregardless of location. Unlike the 4-5% rent/price you see currently see in the realm of mere mortals, it's more like 3-4% for the super-high-end.

48 west 86th looks really nice. Lots of wasted square footage, though. $9450 ask is not crazy, but still seems a bit high to me. My guess would be somewhere around $7500-$8000, but I won't be shocked if someone falls in love with it and pays more.

I agree on $7500-$8000. I dunno about wasted sq ft, but awkward guest bathroom situation too.

Good point on lack of practical guest bathroom - I had not thought of that.

What I meant by wasted SF is that you have 2000SF (i am not even going to try to calculate if they're exaggerating), and what you get out of it is a good-sized living room, a medium-sized master, and two small other bedrooms - and that's kind of it. I guess the dining area is nice, but media room and wine cellar don't do much for me. Ditto for space that the staircase takes up.

Gotcha.

116 Central Park South. I know someone who put in a bid on this apt at a significant discount off last ask and it was accepted. But this very, very wealthy couple decided it was too expensive afterall. The apt is in perfect condition. Two other apts in the same building are in horrible condition yet they just raised their prices for spring. So they should be empty for a while because while this one is on the market at a lower price, no one is going to take those apts. Even the wealthy are readjusting their thinking. That will trickle down all the way to the boroughs.

STREETEASY HISTORY
01/15/2009
Previously Listed by Sotheby's International Realty, Inc. at $17,000.
06/17/2009
Sotheby's International Realty, Inc. Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $14,500.
06/18/2009
Also Listed by Columbus NY Real Estate at $13,000.
12/12/2009
Listed by Prudential Elliman at $10,000.

Another at The Park Millennium at 111 W. 67th:

STREETEASY HISTORY
11/26/2008
Previously Listed by Prudential Elliman at $8,250.
01/16/2010
Listed by Corcoran at $5,750.
01/21/2010
Prudential Elliman Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $6,500.

It rented after 14 months for $5,750.

How do you think the investors are doing at The Harrison. Seems they are all having difficulty renting their investments. And, when the new luxury rental at 200 West 72nd Street starts renting in April, they will have some pretty hefty competition. Even if they rent these apts now, they will have more competition when another luxury rental opens in the next several months at 67th and Amsterdam. Think these investors are going to run out and buy more condos to invest in when they cannot make their monthly nut at their asking prices and the apts are sitting empty for months no matter what incentives you offer? Free Membership for 2 in The Equinox? Free months rent? No, the investor class is winding down. Here is an example -- one of 5 two bed apts for rent at The brand spanking new Harrison:
STREETEASY HISTORY
11/14/2009
Listed by Prudential Elliman at $7,600.
12/29/2009
Price decreased by 8% to $7,000.

but wow harrison is still sale ask priced in the jaw-dropping zone...when will the rents hit the prices?

Is it just me, or do you also prefer the Park Millennium to the Harrison apartment even putting aside price?

Prices are dropping at The Harrison. Take 601:

STREETEASY HISTORY
01/30/2008
Previously Listed in StreetEasy, already in contract, by Related Sales at $1,825,000.
09/14/2009
Related Sales Listing sold.
09/14/2009
Previous Sale recorded for $1,673,250.
10/01/2009
Listed by Corcoran at $2,100,000.
10/06/2009
Price decreased by 5% to $1,995,000.

How are they going to get that ask price when 501 just sold for $1,695,000 in Jan and 301 sold for $1,594,000 a month earlier? They would be lucky to get what they paid for it and just lose their 10% transaction costs and mansion tax. Still to lose like $170,000 would be painful. And what is the alternative? 801 probably thought he was getting a deal at 15% below ask on 11/13/09 at $1,995,000. He put it on the rental market the next day. As of 2 weeks ago, it still had not rented. And they were offering incentives. So 801 is not making monthlies, the apt has been empty three months and he has to give at least a month away to get anyone in. And then there is enormous competition coming on the market. But if he throws in the towel, he loses 3-400 K providing it sells at all. Yup, those prices will continue to come down. As people look at this building closer, they will realize it is not a good investment until NYC prices really stabilize -- which means a big uptick in jobs in the city.

INONADA: Park Millennium is preferable but there is no gym unless you buy into the pricey Reebok. And the kitchen and bathroom features are now very, very dated unless they apt has been renovated. My example above was an unrenovated apt.

80 Chambers, 11B

02/10/2008Listed by Corcoran at $5,800.
05/04/2008Price decreased by 10% to $5,200.
06/19/2008Price decreased by 6% to $4,900.
07/10/2008Listing rented.
04/14/2009Later Listed by Corcoran at $3,900.
10/23/2009Corcoran Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $3,600.

90 west broadway
2/ 1 + 1/2 (though the floorplan seems to show 2 half baths)
2800 sq ft

StreetEasy History
09/25/2008Previously Listed by Corcoran at $12,500.
03/05/2009Delisted temporarily by Corcoran. Last priced at $11,500.
09/15/2009Listed by Corcoran at $10,500.
11/06/2009Price decreased by 6% to $9,850.
11/24/2009Price decreased by 3% to $9,550.
12/01/2009Price decreased by 10% to $8,550.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/571514-rental-90-west-broadway-tribeca-new-york

The missing 2nd bath is def an issue. Otherwise a nice apartment

That's a hefty drop on 80 Chambers, AR.

Truth, I saw the 90 West Broadway place many months ago at a much higher price. Great bones, great light, but rough around the edges in terms of finishes. The "Bath/Dressing" area is where the shower is. The layout is awkward in a few places: the whole bath/dressing area is weird, and the kitchen is very under-sized for an apartment of that size. You can clearly tell that some artist mish-mashed together a loft rather than an architect.

Nevertheless, attractive at $8500, especially considering you could maybe work it down towards $7500 given how long it's been sitting. Perhaps worth considering doing improvements with a multi-year lease.

the orion. for s&g's spend a few moments perusing the listing history for the building. a 615 sf high floor one bedroom, looks like water views. rented in 04/08, last priced at $3700. entered contract 01/10 last priced at $2500. what are the prices like at the new midtown rental towers?

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/579829-condo-350-west-42nd-street-clinton-new-york

10/17/2007Previously Listed by Prudential Elliman at $3,500.
04/22/2008Prudential Elliman Listing rented. Last priced at $3,700.
10/02/2009Listed by Prudential Elliman at $3,000.
10/26/2009Price decreased by 3% to $2,900.
11/24/2009Price decreased by 14% to $2,500.
01/21/2010Listing entered contract.
01/29/2010Listing is no longer available.

No clue, AR.

Hard to make out rental history exactly on this one, but it looks somewhere between $16.5-18.5K last ask before and is sitting at $13.5K currently:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/604538-rental-366-west-broadway-soho-new-york?email=true

01/19/2007 Previously Listed by Corcoran at $16,500.
02/22/2007 Corcoran Listing is no longer available.
07/31/2007 Previously Listed by City Connections Realty at $26,000.
11/05/2007 City Connections Realty Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $19,500.
12/08/2007 Previously Listed in StreetEasy, but temporarily delisted, by Halstead Property at $18,500.
01/22/2008 Halstead Property Listing is no longer available.
06/01/2009 Previously Listed by Halstead Property at $17,500.
09/15/2009 Halstead Property Listing is no longer available.
10/13/2009 Previously Listed by Garfield at $2,900.
10/13/2009 Previously Listed by Garfield at $16,500.
12/15/2009 Listed by Corcoran at $15,000.
12/17/2009 Garfield Listing is no longer available.
12/17/2009 Garfield Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $15,500.
02/14/2010 Price decreased by 10% to $13,500.

No history on this 4000 sq ft UWS townhouse between RSD & West End, but priced to move right out of the gates:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/619728-rental-333-west-87th-street-upper-west-side-new-york
02/16/2010 Listed by Corcoran at $13,500.

Now if only I was at the end of my lease, was being given a crappy renewal price, and had 3 kids.

300 Riverside Dr. (my personal favorite)
4 br/ 3 ba 2200 sf

StreetEasy History
03/05/2009 Listed by Corcoran at $16,000.
04/05/2009 Price decreased by 9% to $14,500.
07/01/2009 Price decreased by 7% to $13,500.
08/21/2009 Listing is no longer available.
09/12/2009 Re-listed by Corcoran.
09/16/2009 Price decreased by 11% to $12,000.
12/03/2009 Price decreased by 17% to $10,000.

<>

I saw it and it is nice.

Oops, here is the link to 300 riverside drive.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/471237-rental-300-riverside-drive-manhattan-valley-new-york

Nada
I see where I missed that phantom extra 1/2 bath now.
Agreed, looks like good bones and appears a good deal if you in it for large living space.

My initial impression was that the floorplan was a miracle -- seems like a very spacious use of 2200 sq ft. After measuring, it's actually more like 2700 sq ft. I think that makes the $10K price more plausible, but not a market-clearing price, as the market has seemed to have indicated.

You gotta wonder about how ridiculously aspirational asking rents can be, much more so than asking sale prices. This place overshot the mark a year ago when it first went onto the market by like a factor of 2.

Crossed wires, truth, my prior post wasn't in response to 90 W Bwy but rather OntheSideline's 300 RSD place, in case there was any confusion.

Yes, my response was to your 90west broadway reply. I mistook the toilet area by the weird dressing area as an additional 1/2 bath on the floorplan.

ionada,
I agree and the space felt more like 2400sf. It's not for us since our lease ends in the Fall but what do you (or anyone else) think the right price is?

OntheSideline, sorry for the late response -- didn't see until now. I think the place starts looking extremely attractive at $8000. However, I can see someone taking it out at $9000 as well, possibly negotiating even from current ask.

100 Riverside BLvd. The Avery. Even with this discount, you have to think the discounting is not over. There are 7 other 2 bed rentals in this building and then you have competition from the rest of the disaster known as Riverside Blvd. Plus there are 24 apts for sale in this building and there has not been a closing for the past 3 months.

11/20/2008
Previously Listed by Prudential Elliman at $7,200.
04/16/2009
Prudential Elliman Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $6,995.
12/12/2009
Listed by Corcoran at $7,000.
01/20/2010
Price decreased by 7% to $6,500.

unit 10C, 1857sf 2/2.5.

12C was last priced at $12,500 07/08.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/529409-condo-240-riverside-boulevard-lincoln-square-new-york

06/16/2009Listed by Prudential Elliman at $9,980.
08/19/2009Price decreased by 5% to $9,500.
11/02/2009Listing is no longer available.
11/10/2009Re-listed by Prudential Elliman.
11/10/2009Price decreased by 11% to $8,500.
12/22/2009Listing entered contract.
01/07/2010Listing is no longer available.

That's a big plunge, AR.

inonada, the data lies. rents are actually going up. incentives are going away. and you can't afford it anyway - only real estate brokers who provided added value can afford to rent.

Thanks wad ;).

Here's a sad story:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/522587-coop-610-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york
05/16/2009 Previously Listed by Prudential Elliman at $14,000.
06/07/2009 Prudential Elliman Listing is no longer available.
06/08/2009 Listed by Prudential Elliman at $12,500.
10/29/2009 Price decreased by 12% to $11,000.
02/16/2010 Listing is no longer available.
02/24/2010 Re-listed by Prudential Elliman.
02/27/2010 Price decreased by 9% to $10,000.

It's a nice-looking 2500 sq ft coop in prime UWS (don't know about light/views) that is available until Sept 2011. Presumably, that's when the owners are coming back. If it had come to market last year at $10K, you could have seen it transacting, maybe not at $10K, but something close, by someone willing to do 2 years in a coop. Now, it's looking more like a 1-year rental situation that will not attract much of anyone without steep discounts. Even if it does, about $100K of lost rent down the drain sacrificed to the god of stupid pricing.

Nice corner river-view condo with 2300 sq ft + 1500 sq ft wrap terrace in 220 RSB seems to have rented with a last-ask of $13K:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/582195-condo-220-riverside-boulevard-lincoln-square-new-york
10/05/2009 Listed by Stribling at $21,000.
11/12/2009 Price decreased by 19% to $17,000.
11/19/2009 Price decreased by 12% to $15,000.
02/26/2010 Listing entered contract.
03/08/2010 Price decreased by 13% to $13,000.

The $13K is perhaps the contract price given that it got printed after the unit went into contract, but who knows for sure. It had been on the market for $4.875M:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/451744-condo-220-riverside-boulevard-lincoln-square-new-york
09/04/2009 Listed by Stribling at $4,875,000.
11/18/2009 Delisted temporarily.

That works out to a gross rental yield of 12*$13K / $4.875M = 3.2% compared to asking sale price, but I think something in the neighborhood $4M would have been a more realistic actual sale price, so an actual gross rental yield in the neighborhood of 12*$13K / $4M = 3.9%.

.

This place, referenced above, got done with a final ask of $9450, 25% below the late 2007 final ask:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/591887-rental-48-west-86th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

Owner out ~4 months of rent with original strategy of trying to maintain 2007 price.

Here's an interesting direct 2009 vs. 2010 comp:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/619420-rental-181-east-90th-street-carnegie-hill-new-york
11/11/2008 Previously Listed by Corcoran at $9,000.
02/07/2009 Corcoran Listing rented.
02/13/2010 Listed by Corcoran at $10,500.
03/19/2010 Price decreased by 5% to $10,000.
03/23/2010 Price decreased by 5% to $9,500.

Apparently, the owner first go the memo that "rents were going up" but has since decided to asking price to 5% above prior last ask. Let's see at what last ask this place closes...

.

Another direct 2009 vs. 2010 comp:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/615151-rental-348-east-51st-street-sutton-place-new-york
08/20/2008 Previously Listed by Corcoran at $9,975.
01/13/2009 Corcoran Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $6,950.
01/28/2010 Listed by Corcoran at $7,500.
01/28/2010 Previously Listed by Corcoran at $7,500.
02/19/2010 Corcoran Listing is no longer available.
04/09/2010 Price decreased by 3% to $7,250.

Tried for an 8% increase over last year's last ask, ended up sitting on the market for 2 months. Now at a 4% over last year's last ask.

Above referenced direct 2009 vs. 2010 comp, now below last ask from last year despite the move from winter into spring.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/619420-rental-181-east-90th-street-carnegie-hill-new-york
11/11/2008 Previously Listed by Corcoran at $9,000.
02/07/2009 Corcoran Listing rented.
02/13/2010 Listed by Corcoran at $10,500.
03/19/2010 Price decreased by 5% to $10,000.
03/23/2010 Price decreased by 5% to $9,500.
04/14/2010 Price decreased by 6% to $8,900.

Another same-unit comp, in honor of Jimmy Jones:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/621220-coop-147-wooster-street-soho-new-york
01/11/2009 Previously Listed by Halstead Property at $7,000.
02/21/2009 Halstead Property Listing rented. Last priced at $6,500.
02/20/2010 Listed by Halstead Property at $6,800.
04/10/2010 Price decreased by 4% to $6,500.
05/03/2010 Listing rented.

Last ask flat to last year, rented during spring this year vs. winter last year.

Yup yup yup. 1k swings in Dow only makes rents go UP!

11 E 36th St

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/632913-condo-11-east-36th-steet-midtown-south-new-york

StreetEasy History
03/16/2010 Listed by Sotheby's International Realty, Inc. at $7,600.
03/30/2010 Price decreased by 3% to $7,400.
04/07/2010 Price decreased by 9% to $6,700.
05/05/2010 Price decreased by 19% to $5,400.

Carrying that 11 E. 36th St. apartment suddenly becomes one expensive investment property. BTW, how's that Irish Carpenter who was written about in the time a couple years back doing with his Wall Street Studio? I'd love to see the listing on that if someone can track it down.

Found the article...Anyone know how this guy's apartment is doing at 75 Wall Street? Wonder if this one could make the list. BTW, this article made me want to vomit when it came out...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/04/realestate/04cov.html?_r=1&scp=7&sq=Carpenter%20Ireland&st=cse

It was 23D. Closed for $774K in November 2008.