Elliman as property manager / DoB / expeditor question

Can't comment on the specifics of your questions, but, will say this:

The expeditor, IMO, is almost the most important person is the job. Why? Because if you can't get approvals & permits from DOB, ya got nothin. Yes, the architect & engineer are important for structural issues, but, often, they know nothing about complying with DOB regs. And, if you don't comply with DOB regs & you don't pass DOB inspections, you are screwed & the job price increases until you correct conditions so that you will pass inspections & comply with DOB regs.

So, maybe elliman knows that this expediotr is good & that's why they req you to use them.

Depending on the job, $6-$7 is ballpark.

I like to get the expeditor on board from the start. So, arrange a meeting w/ architect, engineer & expeditor (& maybe include elliman) from the start; that way, each member of your "reno team" are all on the same page.

PS: if you are combining 2 units, then the bld will need a new Cof O (certificate of occupancy), so the expeditor is very, very important.

I would ask why Elliman recommends this expeditor. You need the good will and assistance of the management co. IMO, it benefits you to make nice w/ Elliman, whether or not you use their expeditor.

Combination of apts is not a C of O change - it's an Alteration Type 2. Pretty sure this is the case for co-ops, there are things specific to condos that you have to do. There was an article in NYT about this. If Elliman is requesting that you use a specific expediter, you should use him/her to avoid delays.

1) no - not in Elliman building
2) 6-7k sounds excessive for an Alteration Type-2 - there are some "Chinatown" types who can do it for much less.
3) nope
4) not "normal" but honestly this could be a "kickback" situation, go with the flow, do what they say otherwise it will cost you many thousands more in aggravation and delay

"So, arrange a meeting w/ architect, engineer & expeditor (& maybe include elliman) from the start;"

Forgot to say, include the contractor in this meeting.

IMO, anyone working on this reno who makes structural, electric or plumbing changes should be at this intial meeting. Try to avoid a situation in which one member of the team does not know what another team member is doing.

You want to avoid a scenario in which the contractor finishes construction & then the expeditor says "that won't pass DOB inspection" because the work violates some DOB code or directive.

Good luck!

nyc10023:
changing the # of units in a bld doesn't require a new CO? Maybe it's different w/ condos, but, I've always needed a new CO when I change the # of units.

10023:

I know you've done renos, but using "Chinatown" types would leave me with an uneasy feeling. Personally, I'd rather pay the extra $2 & know that the job is being done correctly, particularly if a situation arises in which a plan examiner denies something & the expeditor must meet with a Division Chief (or whatever they're title is) to get it approved.

Dwell: I can tell you with 100% certainty that in a co-op, changing the # of units does not require a C of O change. You can google this - Type II Alteration is what is done in every filing I've seen (including mine) on the
BIS website. I appreciate your comment on "Chinatown" types, but I can't tell you how often I've seen people pay super high-end contractors and the subs on the work site - um, Chinatown types!

The other thing to note is that to save time, it's often easier to just go ahead and file for the permit without knowing 100% what you want to do, because you can easily get post-approval amendments. Time is money.

This article explains it very well:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9905E5D7133EF935A25750C0A9659C8B63&scp=1&sq=condo%20alteration%20type%20ii&st=cse

another article:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3601/is_23_51/ai_n9481458

10023:

I found a DOB directive stating that obtaining a new CO is not required:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/html/reference/tppn0397.shtml

For whatever reason, I suppose my work did not fit the requirements of the directive. But, perhaps lorenzonyc will.

Dwell: are you sure you're not confusing the change of tax lot structure with C of O change? Also, if you own the whole building and want to combine apartments, the way to go is C of O change.

10023:

I don't do work in coops or condos. I do rental buildings & the work I do probably exceeds DOB's definition of "combing units".

Yes, I have filed plans just to get the ball running & amended later & sometimes you have to do that because the job changes, but every time you amend, you need amended plans & that also costs $.

"Also, if you own the whole building and want to combine apartments, the way to go is C of O change."

Right, that's my situation.

Thanks for all the comments.

In our case, its a new building, so our combination was done proposed before the building got TCO. I looked at the proposed expeditor agreement. It is a Type 2 Alteration that we are asking for.

What is frustrating here is that both our architect and Elliman have engineers who have already reviewed the architectural plan to file with DoB and done several rounds of comments, and we have had an expeditor 'on our team' for a year now, who has the filing ready to go. (The expeditor was hired before Elliman was property manager). So we have already paid 'our' expeditor a retainer, and the docs are ready, so the Elliman expeditor is a whole new cost to us (and probably time delay) when we are otherwise ready to go. Our expeditor was reasonably less expensive too.

I suppose in the end, to fight city hall on this one is possible but I need to think through the time delay and relationship costs vs. what is still a small cost in the grand scheme of the renovation.

"So we have already paid 'our' expeditor a retainer, and the docs are ready, so the Elliman expeditor is a whole new cost to us (and probably time delay) when we are otherwise ready to go. "

This is a new wrinkle. Seems to be an issue of politics & negotiations. If you don't use Elliman's expeditor, the Managing Agent won't sign the papers?

Can't you just tell Elliman that the work is done & we're ready to go forward? Maybe your lawyer can send a letter, but then it gets adversarial. Did you complain to your MA's boss?

"I suppose in the end, to fight city hall on this one is possible but I need to think through the time delay and relationship costs vs. what is still a small cost in the grand scheme of the renovation."

I think you pretty much summarized the issue.

I've had a similar problem with Elliman Property Management requiring me to use a spedific contractor of theirs. It seems totally corrupt. I would urge buildings to use a different management company that is more above board.

1 - I am in a building managed by Elliman and they did not require me to use a specific expeditor when I was filing for my renovation. I used the one that my architect rec'd. FYI - My building is a co-op.

2 - I used a company called Callahan and their costs were not as high as $6-7k. I think it was more in the 3k range.

3 - I've interacted with Elliman pretty frequently, but have always worked with / gone through the property manager that is assigned to my building. It's been challenging at times to get prompt service/replies (especially during the summer months), but overall am generally satisfied with my Elliman property manager.

4 - I don't think that it's normal for a property manager to dictate who files for the DoB forms. IMO, as long as the forms are filed and apporved, the PM should be fine with that.

lorenzonyc - you are getting ripped off. My expeditor cost less than $1k. My architect handled this for me using his expeditor. The real work is done by the architect. He does the plans, draws up the documents and hands it over to an expeditor. An expeditor just sits at the DOB all day and files - not just your application with the city - but for several other people at once. The actual time focused on filing your work does not take more than a couple of hours, max.

Why on earth would it cost $6-$7k for that small amount of work? Something smells fishy here...Elliman or someone is getting a huge kickback.

Lorenzonyc, I am a licienced architect, previouse the chief plan examiner of the DOB, This is a simply Alteration type 2 for combining apartments, going rates vary if the architect is paid separately, 2,000 for the expediting only.. If architects cost involved could be up to
5, 000 but certainly NOT 6-7,000..

email me if you need either an architect/ expeditor in the future michelle.graphicsense@mail.com