Low maintenance in a good neighborhood? How to find it?
Started by Trompiloco
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 585
Member since: Jul 2008
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I just wanted to collect information from the forum on this topic. It may be of interest for many. According to my calculations, a difference of $400 in maintenance between 2 apts. is equivalent to 70K difference in price, with the added benefit that the price paid doesn't raise over time, the way maintenance does. Therefore, it is worth considering a more expensive apt. if that would lower your... [more]
I just wanted to collect information from the forum on this topic. It may be of interest for many. According to my calculations, a difference of $400 in maintenance between 2 apts. is equivalent to 70K difference in price, with the added benefit that the price paid doesn't raise over time, the way maintenance does. Therefore, it is worth considering a more expensive apt. if that would lower your maintenance.
In my case I'm looking for a 2br/2bt @ 1100 sq ft in a good school zone (I'm not terribly obsessed with schools, any of the passable P.S. would do), but I find that most on the UES have maintenance of $1500 and more.
My ballpark idea is that you can get lower maintenance if you look for walk-ups, bldgs. with no doorman or a part-time one, fewer amenities, etc. That would make lofts (which have no common areas except the elevator) and subdivided townhouses look like an ideal fit. However, that's not necessarily the case. I remember seeing a 2br/2bt on the first floor of a townhouse on the UES (95th st 1 block from Central Park) with a monthly charge of $1500. What for?
On the other hand, there is a similar one on 104th on the UWS (horrible school zone PS 145) charging $700. Why?
So I guess I'm asking for help. Is there any particular neighborhood or layout or organization of a co-op that would tend to have lower maintenance? Is that a job for a broker ("look for lower maintenance on a Manhattan-wide basis with the zones of these 20 schools") or they tend to specialize in specific neighborhoods?
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Response by Trompiloco
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 585
Member since: Jul 2008
These are the 2 properties I mentioned in my example:
17 East 95th # 1R (maintenance 1,571)
7 West 104th #4A (maintenance 670)
how come?
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Response by aboutready
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 16354
Member since: Oct 2007
I don't know about the examples that you are giving, but usually it is somewhat, at least, related to the amount of amenities/services vs. the number of units. The smallest buildings won't necessarily be the best deals.
For some reason, the UWS does seem to be cheaper than the UES.
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Response by Trompiloco
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 585
Member since: Jul 2008
Yeah. But schools seem to vary in quality more on the UWS, price per sqft is higher, and at least around Lincoln Center maintenance is crazy high. BTW the apt. on 7 West 104th is also listed as 11 West 104th and was taken off the market yesterday.
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Response by NWT
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 6643
Member since: Sep 2008
Lots of factors: taxes, underlying mortgage, staffing, and so on. Re: staffing, some buildings that used to have manual elevators now carry twice as many doormen due to some union rule or other.
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Response by barskaya
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 190
Member since: Jan 2008
"My ballpark idea is that you can get lower maintenance if you look for walk-ups, bldgs. with no doorman or a part-time one, fewer amenities, etc"
- Building can have lower maintenance and still have full time doorman, elavator and so on, if building have commercial spaces on its first floor to get an income.
elena
(broker)
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Response by seven7
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 161
Member since: Aug 2008
I live in the Chelsea Mercantile and i love it. Yes the apartments are expensive but the common charges really low (i'm paying $ 450/ mo) for a very hi level of service.
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Response by seven7
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 161
Member since: Aug 2008
It may not be considered in a "good neighborhood", thought...
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Response by qwerty
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 139
Member since: Oct 2007
Can't beat this one. $644/month maintenance in super location (Carnegie Hill)!
Trompilco, as you've seen, there aren't any rules. The three biggies in co-ops' financials -- and thus its maintenance -- are the mortgages, RE taxes, and staffing.
In a doorman building, there's some economy of scale. E.g., a 100-unit building won't need twice as many guys as a 50-unit building.
Of the three factors, the one that varies the most is the underlying mortgage. That'll depend on how much the sponsor got out of the building when it converted, the market then, and so how much of a mortgage the co-op took over. Then the co-op may have added to that to fund capital improvements.
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Response by aboutready
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 16354
Member since: Oct 2007
Doesn't SE have a search function now for total monthly cost? It seems to me if you figure out what the high end of your purchase price is and also the total including maintenance and plug in both of those numbers you should mostly get hits for lower maintenance, or at least the right total cost.
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Response by Trompiloco
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 585
Member since: Jul 2008
qwerty, yeah, maintenance is quite low but apt. is really tiny despite technically being a 2br/2bt. No more than 750 sqft IMHO. That makes maintenance slightly below $1 per sq ft. but apt. 1000 per ft.
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These are the 2 properties I mentioned in my example:
17 East 95th # 1R (maintenance 1,571)
7 West 104th #4A (maintenance 670)
how come?
I don't know about the examples that you are giving, but usually it is somewhat, at least, related to the amount of amenities/services vs. the number of units. The smallest buildings won't necessarily be the best deals.
For some reason, the UWS does seem to be cheaper than the UES.
Yeah. But schools seem to vary in quality more on the UWS, price per sqft is higher, and at least around Lincoln Center maintenance is crazy high. BTW the apt. on 7 West 104th is also listed as 11 West 104th and was taken off the market yesterday.
Lots of factors: taxes, underlying mortgage, staffing, and so on. Re: staffing, some buildings that used to have manual elevators now carry twice as many doormen due to some union rule or other.
"My ballpark idea is that you can get lower maintenance if you look for walk-ups, bldgs. with no doorman or a part-time one, fewer amenities, etc"
- Building can have lower maintenance and still have full time doorman, elavator and so on, if building have commercial spaces on its first floor to get an income.
elena
(broker)
I live in the Chelsea Mercantile and i love it. Yes the apartments are expensive but the common charges really low (i'm paying $ 450/ mo) for a very hi level of service.
It may not be considered in a "good neighborhood", thought...
Can't beat this one. $644/month maintenance in super location (Carnegie Hill)!
I think its cheap b/c no doorman.
http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=1433898
Here's the link, sorry
Trompilco, as you've seen, there aren't any rules. The three biggies in co-ops' financials -- and thus its maintenance -- are the mortgages, RE taxes, and staffing.
In a doorman building, there's some economy of scale. E.g., a 100-unit building won't need twice as many guys as a 50-unit building.
Of the three factors, the one that varies the most is the underlying mortgage. That'll depend on how much the sponsor got out of the building when it converted, the market then, and so how much of a mortgage the co-op took over. Then the co-op may have added to that to fund capital improvements.
Doesn't SE have a search function now for total monthly cost? It seems to me if you figure out what the high end of your purchase price is and also the total including maintenance and plug in both of those numbers you should mostly get hits for lower maintenance, or at least the right total cost.
qwerty, yeah, maintenance is quite low but apt. is really tiny despite technically being a 2br/2bt. No more than 750 sqft IMHO. That makes maintenance slightly below $1 per sq ft. but apt. 1000 per ft.