newsflash...ny market not dead

your asking for mud to be thrown at you.

Yep...would like to hear what everyone has to say...
Really, I am sincerely curious.

I am not a brokers broker...common talk...not mud...

jasmine = feingirl = idiots101 = broker101 = brokerage101 = Financialguy = beepops = BEVERLY H. FEINGOLD, V.P. Halstead

Modern, I have no idea what you are talking about.

I am sorry for brokers who can not accept the reality. But at least there are a few like urbandigs who make objective comments.

Brokerage101: just remember, when you lose your job, you can sell your blood.

Trust me...I accept the reality. I predicted it was coming.
I sold my apartment and got out of the business last year.
I'm living in a rental and waiting until the time is right to get back in.
I honestly have no predictions of when that will be.
I was living in an apartment that became too small. I was happy to leave.
Now what I'm waiting for one that is just right. Of course a low price would be nice.

I just enjoy egging people on and having a good heated conversation.
A little devils advocate.

Of course it's not dead. It's "frozen" because prices are too high. Once prices return to levels income can support without ridiculously easy credit, it'll unfreeze.

Sticky, You are absolutely correct.
As a broker I was saying that for the last 3 years, I was in business.
But everyone kept laughing at me.
Prices have come down. In my estimation about 15 to 20 percent off the high.
In certain sectors we'll see a further drop. Some may have already stabilized.

yes sticky, you are right that it will unfreeze at some price point. but what is that price point? all we know is that it is lower than where prices are today--and there are plenty of apartments on the market 25% below peak prices that aren't selling. so i'd say the best case scenario is an average decline of 30%, and the worst case scenario, as always, is a decline of 100%. this came close to happening in the 1970s when many apartments were given away.

if i were guessing, i'd say we are about halfway through the decline and i'd predict a bottom, and then a long period of flat prices, around 50% off 2007 prices. but that's a guess. could stabilize at 30%, could decline 70%.

I'm with happyrenter. Prices are down and likely heading further down. If they 'stabilize' now (which is really only a crack-induced dream on the part of sellers and brokers), they'll sit there for a loooooooong time.

All these stories about increased open house traffic are smoke -- that traffic isn't stemming the tide of rising inventory with signed contracts.

There really is NO pressure to buy right now unless you find the perfect place you absolutely have to have.

Ive had 45-48 people into my 152 E 94th property in past 3 1/2 weeks. No bid was accepted. OH's are packed, last 3 OH's saw 19, 13, 9, and I had about 6-7 private showings in addition. Does this mean the market is active, alive and well?

The point. Traffic does not mean the market is moving.

So you are saying you got no acceptable bids or no bids?

1 low verbal bid, that was unaccompanied by anything in writing, full names, attorney info, or buyer financials info. That doesn't count. Its a co-op that has guidelines for prospective buyers to pass board, so if somebody does a 'will your client take X' verbally with no other information provided in writing, I can't possibly pre-qualify or take that seriously. When I asked for it in writing with general information required, I got nothing. So, I guess, no bids.

Just to be a devil's advocate. Don't you hurt your clients' interest by disclsoing that there hasn't been firm interest on their apartment?

it comes across as more a statement on the current market and "traffic reports" than a statement on that specific unit

Man, you just love setting traps dont you? Ask a direct question, then diss the reputation of the commenter because they answer. Even when the answer is interpreted so strangely.

If you were a buyer who visited that property, and asked me if there are any bids accepted, I would answer, "no, we have had 1 verbal bid that was not accepted". The truth. My job is to procure the highest and best bid possible for my client, and job #1 is to get traffic in. Its hard to sell when you have no buyers stopping by.

Lying with the hopes of generating interest is more of a dis-service to your clients interests in the current sales market.

45+ people in 3 1/2 weeks, that is a great turnout and a sign of an active market especially for products priced the way that is. Which is what the topic of this discussion is! In the end, the market will do what it wants.

Co-ops are down 28% on average now. Sales were down 75% last I heard.

Call that "not dead", "signs of life" all you want... but we're still sinking.

Yeah, uppereast, back off. Don't you know better than to stick your nose where it doesn't belong? I'm really beginning to think you're just another broker shill on this board.

In this case, it's because you seem to be a proponent of brokers telling any string of lies (to their clients and prospective buyers) to try to sell a place, even when that approach may not be the most effective.

Whether UD is 'hurting' anyone's interests is up to his clients to decide. They know who he is, they hired him. He's straightforward about his philosophy toward what he does. It's refreshing, and I hope it gets him even more business.

The bottom line is people need to be realistic to get anything done in this market. If they want to sell their apartments, they'll deal with a broker who tells them the truth. If they'd rather be flattered with empty words and watch their apartments sit, maybe they should hire you, uppereast.

Good morning nyc10022

NYRE is dead not its not dead.

And, of course, it wouldn't be a perfitz post without some stupidity.

"According to data cited in a thread that he started the LES was up in sales prices in all categories 8-10% in 2008."

Did he just give 2008 stats?!?!? Dude, you know its 2009, right!??!?

And here is the last stat I gave:
"The district comprising the East Village, Lower East Side, Chinatown and Noho has seen a 17 percent median sales price decline in the past year, to $612,500,"

Uh, whoops...

"The biggest discount is a two-bedroom walk-up on East Houston Street at Eldridge, a noisy intersection at the edge of the Lower East Side. Corcoran broker Timothy Scott said the co-op has been reduced from $650,000 to $412,000 since November because "we based it on the wrong size. And when we discovered what the real size was, it was basically about the time the financial crash started to hit."

Scott said they now have an offer "very close to asking price," but in general, buyers are starting negotiations by offering 20 to 25 percent less.

He's marketing a one-bedroom condo at Ian Schrager's "ultra-luxe" Noho project 40 Bond, which has been discounted $1 million, or 29 percent, since it came to market in November 2007. Of the developer lowering the price, he said, "There was a willingness, based on just a lack of interest."

Another frustrated broker said the failure of luxury real estate here would be appropriate karma. "Developers pushed out the immigrants and artists who made this a vibrant neighborhood, hoping to replace them with rich people. Maybe now those people who were pushed out can afford to move back."

Great news, now that its getting poor people back, perfitz might be able to afford it with his welfare check!

Keep talking, perfitz. Your stupidity is endlessly amusing.

those who proclaim "broker schill" upon anyone who holds an oposing position,is not someone i wouldgive credibility to!

zzzz - the miller samuel report has all apsects of actual, median etc sales prices up 8-10%. It also reports that 2008 was the 4th best in actual units sold in the past 8 years.

Cherry pick all you want but you are a moron. A moron who paid over $150K in rent to a landlord like me over the past 3 years. I say thank you. You paid my mortgage and bought me a really nice boat.

Actually, jrw293, my problem with uppereast's post isn't that he holds an opposing viewpoint, it's that he's hitting below the belt.

His rhetorical, 'devil's advocate' question implies that UD is either duplicitous (willfully working against his client's interests) or stupid (working against his client's interests because he doesn't know any better).

The post says nothing about the state of the market, it's an attack directly on how UD conducts his business.

I'm not sure why uppereast feels the need to do that. It seems to belie less innocence and objectivity than uppereast wants to claim. That's why I said he seems like a broker shill.

There's nothing wrong with what UD said (one anecdote about one situation) ... unless it threatens you because you have a vested interest in trying to deny its validity. Uppereast can't do it on the facts -- no one can since they're unverifiable -- so he tries to discredit the messenger by implying that he's an amateur.

You tell me what the point of that is.

JKB, not a broker here. As much as I found the UD color interesting, it occurred to me that as a seller of that apartment I wouldn't be happy to see his description of the situation. Not meant to be an attack on UD just thinking out loud.

> zzz - the miller samuel report has all apsects of actual, median etc sales prices up 8-10%. It also
> reports that 2008 was the 4th best in actual units sold in the past 8 years.

Again, seriously dude... its 2009! Wake up, your house is on fire, you moron.

> Cherry pick all you want but you are a moron.

Call it "cherry picking" all you want - your "evidence" is from LAST YEAR. Here is that stat again:
"The district comprising the East Village, Lower East Side, Chinatown and Noho has seen a 17 percent median sales price decline in the past year, to $612,500"

Put your head back in the sand, you moron!

> A moron who paid over $150K in rent to a landlord like me over the past 3 years.

While you lost $500k on that apartment. I'll take that trade anyday!

Thank you to all the morons like perfitz who buy high and sell low! Lets the rest of us make so much money!

Understood, uppereast, and I'm glad for the clarification. I just find UD's honesty refreshing, and I felt compelled to defend it. UD is one of the few brokers around who seems willing to face - and state - the truth, both to his clients and in general. If I were selling, I think I'd consider that effective, not self-defeating.

It seems to be a testament to his approach that he's generating as much traffic as he is. If offers don't come in, that's true whether he states it or not. I assume his clients aren't dolts, and therefore can take their own measure of what's going on with their properties.

We're all biased, but my bias right now tells me that inventory is building because too many brokers are still trying to play by the old rules in a new game, and are afraid to have honest discussions with sellers (or that stubborn sellers aren't really serious about selling their places anytime soon).

Everyone was only too happy to state that prices are 'whatever the market will pay for them' when they were flying up. Now that things are going in reverse, sellers (and some brokers) want to ignore that principle.

I suspect the stubbornness is more seller-driven than broker-driven, actually. It's my impression that brokers make money through deal volume, so I'm not sure they want unrealistic prices to hold (no deals, no commission). They may just have to play a delicate game to massage unrealistic sellers and get listings.

Not an enviable position to be in.

That said, I'm out there looking to buy myself and have run into a number of the standard broker tactics, my favorite being: "We have a very good offer right now that we're considering, so any offer you make would have to be close to ask."

Uh-huh. If you've got such a great offer, you should take it.

Those places just sit and sit and sit ...

"We have a very good offer right now that we're considering, so any offer you make would have to be close to ask."

That kind of talk makes buyers go away in this environment. Totally agree. Thanks for words JKB on my efforts.

JKB,

I've had brokers say the same thing to me. I smile and tell them congratulations. The next day I usually get a call to see if I was interested in the property.

urbandigs
there were some critical comments about the 'real' (whatever that is) size of that property.
What's your view on that?
Would you recommend in general to take my own measurments? Kind of odd when at an OH LOL

Thanks

My standard reply when told "we have an offer, or we have an interested buyer" is to tell the agent: "then no thanks, in this market I don't get involved in bidding wars, have a nice day" and start walking away. Amazing how fast they start hedging their claims about offers.

HT1, urbandigs is not the guy to ask for about square footage. Guilty as just all of the other brokers about square foot inflation.

Check out his listing,
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/384328-coop-152-east-94th-street-carnegie-hill-new-york

He says 1550 square feet, but is actually 1280. So, although it's easy for him to criticize and critique other brokers, urbandigs uses the same tactics as other slimy brokers. They're all slimy.

I agree, 1295 sq ft at the most!
Which makes the psf price close to $760.
Quite a difference...

streeteasy CARRIED OVER that # from the previous broker's web description, and yes it was marketed at 1550 sft, as was the previous J line, same size/layout, at 1550 sft in mid 2007. Look:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/359367-coop-152-east-94th-street-carnegie-hill-new-york

Halstead doesn't allow brokers to list co-op size because it is aproximate.

Here is my web description:

http://www.halstead.com/detail.aspx?id=1660678

No mention of size. However, in the internal systems, I put 1500, not 1550, and it seems SE picked up on that.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/384328-coop-152-east-94th-street-carnegie-hill-new-york

So am I guilty of LOWERING previous marketable square footage, internally to other brokers, yes. I lowered to 1500. How many brokers would do that? For direct marketing, size is not listed and any mention is always aproximate because there is no written record of total size for most co-ops, while condos have it listed in offering plan.

Hey UD, no problem. I think you're on the right track for both buyers and sellers. It's not like you made the economy tank yourself. You're responding to reality and I applaud you for it.

C'mon guys, square footage inflation has to be the least of broker crimes, and it's easily dealt with, particularly when the broker -- in this case, UD -- provides a floorplan with dimensions.

Is anyone buying a place on a mere calculation of price-per-square-foot? (and everyone argues different ways to calculate it). I think you'd want to see a place and decide on that basis whether it's big enough for you. IMO, layout is more important than a hundred square feet here or there. I guess I'm more forgiving on that.

Showing the wrong floorplan or photos of a different apartment? Now THAT'S unforgivably deceptive.

Hey JKD,

Does anyone buy mile in a half gallon based on volume? They can measure it themselves, right? So if it is only a quart and a half, so be it.

And gasoline, who cares if a the price per gallon is for a gallon or three quarts. Just fill the tank and pay whatever they ask, the number of gallons is irrelvant.

UD, I generally like your openess, but on this listing the "25% less than last sale in same line" is misleading, because that sale is 6 floors higher...so, given a conservative $25k per floor premium, your listing is only 15% lower than last sale, which was at the height of the market.

As such, the apt. is still 10%-20% overpriced, which is evidenced by the lack of offers, even with the heavy traffic you described.

Modern, I agree that no one should be deceptive, but your analogy is a paper tiger. The size of an apartment is easily verifiable (unless you're buying off the Internet), the volume of gas you get at the gas station is not. That's a big difference.

You actually can't reasonably assess the amount of gas you get at the gas station. That's not like an apartment at all.

As I said, if I saw an apartment that was too small for the price, I wouldn't buy it. Neither would you.

In the case of gas, we'd both get ripped off.

urbandigs: "No mention of size. However, in the internal systems, I put 1500, not 1550, and it seems SE picked up on that."

The fact is, the apartment isn't 1500 square feet either, so that's a blatant exaggeration. The apartment is closer to 1280 square feet.

Broker square feet inflation artificially alters the price per square foot gage, which, as discussions on streeteasy prove, is often how buyers rate what's a value and what's not.

Urbandigs' price per square foot of the unit (152 East 94 Street) is $656
But given the actual square foot of the unit at 1280 being $769.

And why didn't you correct streeteasy about their obersight of 50 square feet, urbandigs? You are a frequent user of streeteasy, so surely you know how to report an innacuracy.

Another typical 'do as I say, not as I do.'

"Modern, I agree that no one should be deceptive, but your analogy is a paper tiger. The size of an apartment is easily verifiable (unless you're buying off the Internet), the volume of gas you get at the gas station is not. That's a big difference."

Still, if a gas station advertised on the outside that gas was X dollars/gallon and once you got inside,
you realized at the pump that it is more like X and 0.30 dollars/gallon, wouldn't that be false advertising? And potentially prosecutable?

The point is square footage is a (very) important parameter on real estate and falsely increased measurements are inexcusable. There simply is no reason why brokers cannot list the EXACT ACCURATE square footage. I am sorry, isn't this their job? To represent the apartment? Not the previous one sold on the building four floors up... Not what another broker previously involved told them... You are brokering the apartment! Find out the exact square footage and list just as you list the floor, exposure, the presence of a doorman and an elevator... What the **** is a broker's job otherwise? Brokers need to justify the (inflated in my opinion) fees they collect by doing their job. And MISREPRESENTING the apartment size is not one of them.

bwah hah ha ha ha ha ha "Nyc10022 - mortgage rates are going up..."

hee hee hee hee

Contrary to popular belief, most brokers don't lie.
The beauty of a site like this, is that people like me, who are anonymous and no longer actively working in the market can tell those who are looking, who to beware of. An there are many of those.

As a buyer's broker, I never believed the line about offers and bids...even in the high market.
"It's a seller's market" they would say...No...the buyer is always the one who decides what a property is worth.

No...the buyer is always the one who decides what a property is worth. Totally incorrect. Sellers dont have to sell 95% of the time. Its the sellers who set the price.

Sellers can "set" the price where ever they want to. If there is no buyer the place sits there.
My favorite "game" was to price 1 percent, or 5000 below what I believed the market price would be. If the seller went along, it always worked.
interest was generated, people came in droves to see the apartment, Open Houses were full. In every case where the owner allowed me to do that, buyers bid the price up.
The owner makes the first offer with the price.

Sellers set the price and decide what the place sells for. Buyers have no power until they become owners. Dont fool yourself.

Whatever you say...
OK...I put my apartment on the market for 800K, it's fair trade value is 500K. Fair trade = the price point where I, the seller would begin to get offers from real buyers...
Who is setting the price here?

if you dont have to sell you. Most sellers dont have to sell.

Ok you walk into a jewelry store to buy a ring for your sweetie you offer $1K the store say $30K. Who is setting the price? You walk into a car delaership offer the mercedes sales rep $5K he says $45K. Who is setting the price? etc etc etc etc

Buyers and renters are powerless until they become owners.

Brokerage101 is right - buyers eventually set the price; sellers follow the signs of demand to price accordingly (or not accordingly, as the case may be).

petrfitz, how are you powerless when you have cash? An unsold good that just sits there generates no power until it reaches a price the market will accept.

buyers set the price in Williamsburg because any sucker that bought there is screwed and will take whatever they get offered for their crappy glass condo on a toxic waste dump.

The rest of new york sellers set the price and often buyers pay more than that price.

seller SETS the price, the buyer WRITES the check. So in the end, it is the buyer that decides what the asset is worth.

It is up to the seller to agree and do the transaction, OR disagree and let the asset remain on the market at their pre-SET price.

uppereast, of course you're a broker. Or an owner. If you were a buyer, you would have a natural inclination to wish lower prices, y'know, it's called self-interest. The fact that you side 99.9% of the times with petrfitz and his crowd shows plainly that you're a broker shill posing as buyer. It's not a terribly original tactic BTW.

the buyer is kust one of many that will offer the buyer money to buy their property. the buyer is a faceless nobody until they write the check. The "buyer" is on the outside trying to storm the castle. The owner decides who to let in or not. Wow some A Hole like Trmpiloco could come bye and offer me $2K more than some other ahole. I could take less from the other a hole or wait and sell it some other time to some other ahole at another price.

Buyers have no power even in this market.

petrfitz, you never get tired of that, do you? Actually, if you look at the cancer and mortality rates, Lower Manhattan fares significantly worse! Scary stuff!

Here's the data: http://www.health.state.ny.us/statistics/cancer/registry/docs/volume1nycneighborhoods.pdf

thats because the govt doesnt count Williamsburg residents. You are the Morlocks of New York City.

petrfitz, you aren't thinking straight - must be the toxic fumes on the LES!

Polydoa, I agree with you, in general. But, again, real estate isn't anything like the purchase of gas. If there were a number out there that said 'an apartment in X place with X bathrooms and X floor [and other Y paramaters] will be priced absolutely at X amount per square foot,' then the analogy would hold.

Generally, gas is gas is gas and you can put a more-or-less strict price on it based on volume. And the buyers of gas are all buying it for exactly the same purpose -- to power their vehicles.

In real estate, that's not the case, not even close -- and I think it's silly to claim that they're comparable. If someone can name a market where residential houses prices are determined solely on their square footage, I'll accept all this talk about accurate price-per-square-foot calculations.

(what's great in this thread is that UD's critics are slamming the 1,500-sq.-ft. number with calculations based on a floorplan that UD provides -- that floorplan could just as easily be a lie, who knows? But everyone keeps ranting about 'data' and 'calculations' like buying real estate is just a matter of equations -- it's not).

Back in reality, real estate is a barter situation, where you really need to view the product to see what you're getting. And in that market, 50-sq.-ft. here or there isn't going to be the most salient factor in arriving at a price.

If brokers are grossly inflating the square footage to increase traffic or fool stupid buyers, that's wrong. That's not the case with UD here. You have pictures, you have a presumably-accurate floorplan, you have everything you need - from the comfort of your computer - to determine whether you're interested. If his ad persuades you to visit the apartment, you'll likely see very close to what his ad describes (can't say for sure, I haven't seen the place).

There's sleaze and there's fair salesmanship. I think UD is guilty only of the latter.

If you're a buyer who can't handle that salespeople 'present' their products, you probably need to find a different planet to buy on. No one's going to do your legwork for you, least of all a salesman.

And as for comps calculations -- a wildly subjective, but important, metric -- that's a whole other ball of wax. My attitude is a 'comp' is whatever you want it to be. One man's comp is another man's irrelevant data point. It only becomes meaningful at the point that someone is signing a contract. And then it's only meaningful to that buyer and that seller.

perfitz, you are assuming "you don't have to sell."
If Tiffany prices a ring at 10K, today you could walk in and make an offer.
I am not sure what kind of a discount you can get but you will get some.
My experience with buying a car:
1) find out what the dealer paid.
2) Estimate a reasonable mark-up
3) Make your offer, based on having educated yourself
4) You get the car...I did exactly this over the phone.
The dealer can ask what they will...I told them what I would pay (fairly). They took it and everyone walked away from the deal happy.

I forgot to add.
I, the buyer made the market, because I was educated and fair.
Did the dealer "have" to sell? No

I am not a broker. Just because I have a different opinion you make me a broker. So very convenient of you. Plus I don't side with other people, I just express my opinion.

Stop this personal BS...you sound like a bunch of kids...
We are all grown ups here..aren't we???

petr...R8's are selling for thousands below MSRP, as are CLSs, 997s and Gallardos. Your argument holds together like tissue paper in a tornado.

I may disagree with uppereast, but I doubt uppereast is a broker -- he/she is always talking of buying a prewar 3 bedroom whereas a broker would say they are looking for a classic 6/7. I'm still skeptical of uppereast's posts, but I don't think we should resort to calling him/her the b word yet :)

"he buyer is kust one of many that will offer the buyer money to buy their property. the buyer is a faceless nobody until they write the check. The "buyer" is on the outside trying to storm the castle. The owner decides who to let in or not. Wow some A Hole like Trmpiloco could come bye and offer me $2K more than some other ahole. I could take less from the other a hole or wait and sell it some other time to some other ahole at another price.

Buyers have no power even in this market."

The seller in this market is the jackass trying to sell you worn books on a blanket on the sidewalk.

You can pretend he has the power, but nobody wants what he has, and he has to take whatever offer comes.

Of course, even the jackass on the sidewalk is in less denial than perfitz.

nyc10022
guess you'll never own an apt.
you are what sellers call "the stay away from him under any circumstance person...not worth the aggrevation. he'll walk away from the closing table because a light bulb wasn't working."
talking about brokers sucking blood...ha

Funny... because I already have.

And, yes, I will be there to pick over the corpse... but, no, it was the brokers who sucked it dry.

I'm sorry you are so bitter that you and your pals killed the golden goose. But, its not my fault that folks like me will be the only ones left to buy.

All your fault... don't come crying now!

I have nothing to cry over.
I sold and got out of the business last year...If I decide to stay in NYC, I will buy.
So, tell me the difference between, what you call a blood sucking broker (and I assume you believe we all are)? and you...
Nothing...
Let me ask you?
DID you work on Wall Street?

For what it's worth, I also accept that uppereast is no broker. People are welcome to their opinions -- it's a public board. My reaction to him was to a very specific post, and he clarified. Works for me.

(do we know if uppereast is a man? If a woman, pls re-read above lines inserting 'she' where appropriate)

Now please carry on with regularly-scheduled bickering ...

The owner is in control of the price HAHA
Only off the opening price
Is that set to high no bids
Is that set to low a lot of buyers coming in and setting the market price

Why do you think Citi went below $1 and now it is 3$

Brokerage 101 nailed NYC10022 - the kind of "buyer" that you stay away from under any circumstnces. Not serious and not really able to buy. Will make a big stink and try to lower and lower the price until they waste everyones time and walk away. MEanwhile he wastes $150K in rent trying to "time" the market and save himself $50K on sales price. Smart.

petrfitz
yes!!!

> I have nothing to cry over.

Then why are you crying?

> So, tell me the difference between, what you call a blood sucking broker (and I assume you believe
> we all are)? and you...

Pretty simple... I don't suck blood. I don't screw other people for money (outside of folks on the other side of my investment trades, I guess...) ;-)

Unlike you, I also didn't propagate the ponzi scheme that led to the biggest destruction in wealth of all time!

> Brokerage 101 nailed NYC10022 - the kind of "buyer" that you stay away from under any circumstnces.

Sorry, perfitz, its buyers like me who are nailing bubble buying suckers like you (and their brokers).

Yes, I know you WANT to avoid us, but there won't be anyone else left to pick up what you used to own at a foreclosure sale.

So sorry you lost your shirt (AGAIN).

Whine all you want, but you just got your ass handed to you.... no matter what insults you try and throw out.

> MEanwhile he wastes $150K in rent trying to "time" the market and save himself $50K on sales price.

Dude, five HUNDRED thousand. You have to learn math, seriously. You are the idiot who thinks losing $500k (AND covering taxes an interest) is better than spending $150k.

Well, then again, thats how you lost your shirt... AGAIN!

Nice job, genius!

Dear Genius nyc10022,
Not worth a comment...hmmmm.............now why could he be so angry???
Anyone want to guess???

Avoid you, no not at all. SHUN you from society is a much better option...hey, don't forget to check those lightbulbs....:-)
Have fun...

Yea...genius nyc10022,
you are the vulture...pick the bones dry...enjoy them while you can still afford them.
Air you one of the AIGed employees???
90% tax time vulture...time to pay up

> Dear Genius nyc10022,
> Not worth a comment...

And then you go an comment. Wow, what a putz!

> hmmmm.............now why could he be so angry???

Angry? I'm not angry, I'm thrilled. 30% discount on apartments, and STILL DECLINING. And its starting to get nice out! Its an AWESOME time to be a renter!

Its a great time to be alive! (as long as you're not a broker or a bitter bubble buyer!)

BrokerBitch, its pretty clear who is angry these days. I'm sorry you and your pals destroyed your own industry, but you are not going to get any sympathy here.

Wow, nyc10022, you sound really educated....

ROTFL. ... a preftty frequent occurence these days... broker shill gets called out, and he goes for the personals.

I guess its the trend these days, now that this market has officially tanked.

NYC10022 - let me help you understand. If I bought a property for $400K a few years ago that increased in worth to lets say $2.5 million in 2008. If that property is now "worth" $2 million I did not "lose" $500K. It is paper worth. Just like stock options until they are redeemed and sold are worth nothing.

But the $150K you wasted in rent is money out of your pocket that you earned that you will never see any return on. You will spend another $100K trying to "time" the market.

Meanwhile I spend $80K downpayment on that property and spent nothing on mortgage due to renters and write offs. So your $250K in wasted rent puts you 4 times more in the hole than i am.

As a landlord I love idiot renters like yourself. Keep on thinking that you are "investing" in renting. Keep on thinking that wasting all your money timing the market is a smart move. I think that people like you are brilliant.

"Just like stock options until they are redeemed and sold are worth nothing."

Wow, you are as dumb as you look.

Options ABSOLUTELY have worth. They trade for money on exchanges, you jackass.

No wonder you've lost so much money - you have NO CLUE about investing!

And when your $400k buy goes to $200k, you have absolutely lost money. You realize the loss when you sell, but you still have it!

"As a landlord I love idiot renters like yourself. Keep on thinking that you are "investing" in renting. Keep on thinking that wasting all your money timing the market is a smart move. I think that people like you are brilliant."

I love it!

The bankrupt guy "schooling" others on investments!

"Options ABSOLUTELY have worth." - not until they are excersizable you fing moron. I have no clue about investing but you own nothing. you strive to be an owner your entire existence is to try to time the market so you can one day become an owner. that is why you spend all day on this board being bitter. thanks for your rent check!

Dude, you are a moron. You are wrong once again.

You clearly don't understand RE, you told everyone to buy at the top.
You clearly don't understand stock, you don't know what an option is.

I'm sorry you are so bitter about blowing all your money in the Manhattan bubble, but insults aren't going to change that.

I get that you can't use logic and facts to prove your points, because you are fairly dumb AND you have the problem of all your "strategy" blowing up in your face.

But lashing out at others isn't going to get you your losses back.

Sorry.

> "Options ABSOLUTELY have worth." - not until they are excersizable you fing moron.

ROTFL.

This is still funny. And now its pretty clear that you don't actually own a company, because you'd know better.

You really have NO idea about investing, do you!?!?