H&H Bagels, let the battle begin!

My vote is for the East Side location.

they both suck

I live on the west side, formerly east, and this is hands down no competition - East side wins by a mile. The West side location puts out pathetic, puny bagels. The kosher spot on 79th/Amsterdam is far better.

"they both suck"

I think you are crazy. Having lived here my entire life I have quite possibly sampled a bagel from 99% of the places in the city. I can honestly tell you that no other place can match the ES H&H, hence their booming international (and US of course) shipping business. In either case, who are you suggesting makes a better bagel then?

I don't know about better, but I really like La Bagel Delight in brooklyn.

I've always been more of an Ess-a-Bagel guy, but H&H is good too.

well, i feel obliged to add ess-a-bagel to the fray. although i thought that this little joint in midtown west called mom's bagels was the best of the best, but i don't think they're around any more.

Bandit - there was a place on the east side called David's Bagels that was on 86th and 2nd. their bagels were great and the muffins were phenomenal too. they went out of business a few years ago and became coldstone creamery - which is now out of there as well. did you know this place? i think they have another one near Peter Cooper Village.

Anyone that prefers an H&H Bagel over an Absolute Bagel is no New Yorker to me.

sniper, i believe you're right. i always go to ess-a, but i shall have to check it out and report back.

Reasonable people can disagree on bagels, since it is strictly a matter of taste. I have been a New Yorker for 60+ years. I consider myself a true New Yorker even though I don't like H&H bagels so much anymore, either West Side or East Side. My vote is for Tal's on 1st Avenue and 54th Street, and Bagel Club in Bayside.

I used to live in midtown, so I did Ess-A bagel a lot. To be honest I never really liked them that much, the dough was too fluffy for me.

I boycott Tal. They have a joint on 86th and 1st next to supportive housing for those with AIDS. As such, they refuse delivery because they are worried about becoming infected via osmosis. What a country!

"They have a joint on 86th and 1st next to supportive housing for those with AIDS. As such, they refuse delivery because they are worried about becoming infected via osmosis."

Wow, I didn't know that. Thanks for sharing.

No problem. I work for said organization of said supportive housing. So, this isn't some crazy rumor.

Where is the H&H in midtown? I've never been a bagel person (don't start!) but I may give them a try.

Start by going to Absolute Bagel on the upper west side.

"Where is the H&H in midtown? I've never been a bagel person (don't start!) but I may give them a try."

I HIGHLY suggest going to the Upper East Side location (hands down the best in all of NYC), located at

H & H MIDTOWN BAGELS EAST
1551 SECOND AVE.
( BET. 80 - 81ST )
NEW YORK , NY 10028
PHONE: (212) 717-7312

However, if you insist on going to the midtown location it is located at

639 W 46th St
New York, NY 10036
(212) 765-7200

Thanx, Bandito, our new UES poster. ;-)

"there was a place on the east side called David's Bagels that was on 86th and 2nd. their bagels were great and the muffins were phenomenal too. they went out of business a few years ago and became coldstone creamery - which is now out of there as well. did you know this place? "

Yes, I do remember the place although I dont recall loving the bagels more than H&H!

"Thanx, Bandito, our new UES poster. ;-)"

Haha, no problem!

David's Bagels was so good...I miss it....too bad

Ess-a is good, as are the Tal's, particularly the one across from Stuy Town on 1st around 18th street. I used to frequent David's in the late 90's, definitely a decent bagel.

H & H on the UWS should go out of business. Even if their bagels were decent, which they're not, they won't toast or schmear your bagel. What the??

why are we talking bagels? I started a link about the gossip of whole foods on e86th....

I grew up on the Upper West Side, near H&H [I remember when they had a gigantic sign that said 1...10 cents; 2...20 cents; 3...30 cents . . . and on and on exactly like that to three dozen or so, and they did NOT do the baker's dozen thing, so the sign was pure art].

By the late 80s, my friends were telling me that I was crazy to think that H&H had recently been accomodating the UWS new white-bread residents by shifting to puffy, oversized masses ["but fresh out of the oven and still warm", people would squeal, even though that doesn't cut it].

Finally the NYT ran an article explaining that in a business divorce, the east side company stuck with the original recipe, while the west side one didn't. I can't find the article.

I should add that it's become virtually impossible to find good pizza (slices only!!!), Chinese food, or bagels in NY. I wish it were just the oaken-bucket syndrome, but it's not.

"I should add that it's become virtually impossible to find good pizza (slices only!!!), Chinese food, or bagels in NY"

Is that a joke?

I've always thought the Chinese sucked here. i'm from the West Coast, i drool thinking about the dungeness crab in black bean or chili garlic sauce. Pizza33 has good slices.

alan - for slices, try Joe's on Carmine. If you go at 3:00 am they won't charge you half the time.

Without question the best pizza in the US comes from NYC. The only other city that even is known for pizza is Chicago, and I personally dont love deep dish. As for Chinese, you must be going to the wrong places as NYC is know to have better Chinese than most other cities. Pizza 33 is good, but not true NYC pizza by any stretch of the immagination.

"for slices, try Joe's on Carmine"

BEST. PIZZA. IN. THE. CITY. PERIOD!!!! If you havent had a Joes slice, you dont deserve to say you have had NYC pizza IMO.

bandit, so, for Chinese, what do you suggest? i'm up for high end or low end. or in the middle end. but no Ollie's, Noodles on 28, Tang Tang, or the like.

I haven't tried Oriental Garden, I'll confess, which sounds promising, but i've tried most of the others. i wasn't impressed.

"bandit, so, for Chinese, what do you suggest?"

For middle end Chinese I like Chef Hos on the UES. For high end I like Mr. K's on lex and 51st. For low end I like Oriental Express near Wall Street. Another good middle of the road place is China Chalet at 90 Broadway (just south of Wall).

There are some decent places in China Town as well, but to be honest that area is a zoo and I dont like dealing with it. I actually dont even recall the last time I ate down there.

I don't really like Mr. K's, but I'll have a go at your other suggestions. I am invariably disappointed at the restaurants in Chinatown, which is one of the reasons I haven't tried Oriental Garden yet. Also, it IS a zoo and i have a sensitive stomach. The odors get to me, although, obviously, not anything close to 1980's Hong Kong, and even Singapore (clean, but still oddly fragrant), where I had awesome Chinese food.

For Chinese, gotta go to Chinatown (duh!) or Queens. Water Moon or Shun Lee on the UWS is OK for takeout, but not the real deal. Joe's Shanghai in Chinatown is great, and a bunch of other spots whose names I don't remember.

Any city spot that serves thin crust wood fired brick oven pizza is going to be decent. They are scattered around the city and worth discovering. Grimaldi's across the water is a great place to start. Lombardi's in NoLita used to be fantastic, but fell off around 2003. Joe's is still solid.

"If you dont know what I am talking about, then you likely dont live in the city or live under a rock"

Or live downtown and rarely venture uptown.

"I don't really like Mr. K's"

What was your issue with K's? Did you go once and have a bad experience, or was your opinion formed over a few trips? I am just curious, as it is one of the "5 Diamond" rated restaurants in NYC. Ratings of course mean nothing, as (previously pointed out) taste is subjective.

""If you dont know what I am talking about, then you likely dont live in the city or live under a rock"

Or live downtown and rarely venture uptown.""

My original comment had nothing to do with eating H&H, it was the fact that the East Vs West feud is public knowledge, and part of NYC history. You might have even watched the episode about it on that 'seldom seen' show called Seinfeld......

Ess-a-Bagel is the best. Tal is clean and pretty good. H&H is not so clean. Go with Ess-a-Bagel.

"Grimaldi's across the water is a great place to start. Lombardi's in NoLita used to be fantastic, but fell off around 2003. Joe's is still solid."

I agree with everything you said, except I would never go to Grimaldis for a slice as I think Joes is much better!

bandit, it was one bad experience. and i do tend to be harsher as the price increases. i had an absolutely pedestrian meal at le bernardin one time, and even though i wasn't paying for the meal, i was seriously offended. i know all kitchens have off days, but at a certain price those off moments bug me alot more.

i should try Queens. i do, once in awhile, do shun lee, but find it so so also.

"bandit, it was one bad experience. and i do tend to be harsher as the price increases. i had an absolutely pedestrian meal at le bernardin one time, and even though i wasn't paying for the meal, i was seriously offended."

You are preaching to the choir hear, TRUST me. There is nothing that I hate more than having a mediocre meal at a "top notch" place, especially when its very expensive. I get seriously pissed off by the "buffalo chicken wing" sized portions served at some of the 'lets keep the names a secret' French places.

Don't get me started on bagels. Montreal bagels rock. If you haven't had these, you don't know what you're missing. H&H bagels - don't go there. Zabar's bagels are okay.

I'm an east sider, but its the west side that wins.

I've recently begin to think that East side is a fake one... its like neil's H&H bagel cafe. And it has a bunch of other stuff, and real H&H does not. And the bagels are just so so.

West side!

""Grimaldi's across the water is a great place to start. Lombardi's in NoLita used to be fantastic, but fell off around 2003. Joe's is still solid."

I agree with everything you said, except I would never go to Grimaldis for a slice as I think Joes is much better! "

Grimaldi's is not slices, its the smaller entire pie type of place like Lombardi's/JOHNS.

Joe's was best slice before they closed the real one (anyone claiming they moved doesn't actually remember... the "new" one existed BEFORE the old one closed... I know, same "owners"/"ovens", whatever....... but its not actually the same pizza. PArt of it is handling the volume, they don't let toe dough rise properly. One of the guys there admitted to me they jus can't make them the same way.

Still good, but there are challengers.

And DiFara is inconsistent, but they'll still beat Joe's 90% of the time if you do the wait. Freakishly good.

As for the small pie style, Lombardi's went to crap when the doubled the size of the place WITHOUT ANY MORE OVENS. The stuff just doesn't get cooked as well. John's and Grimaldi's suffer from the same problem... too much volume, they try to crank them out for the $$. And, Grimaldis is now owned by Russians.

For closer to how it used to be... Tontonnos in Coney (NOT Tontonnos OF coney, the actual one which isn't listed on the chain one's box, if you didn't notice. Same place, and not enough volume to make them change what they are doing. Pretty consistently better than John's/Grimaldi's/Lombardis'.

I'd put the original patsy's as a nice second. Don't know why for sure, but the 2-3 times I've gone, they just did 'em pretty good but not excellent.

BUT, if you really want to talk best small pizza, you also can't leave Sally's and Pepe's out of the equation (as any national survey will quickly tell you). There is a reason Sinatra got his pizza sent down from New Haven.

Prefer Tal, Ess's are too puffed up.

Thank you for rejecting pie-only shops.

Yes, Joe's is the best pizza in Manhattan; yes, the original one was (slightly) better.

For me, the only real second-place is the little-known Che Bella, on Amsterdam at 120th St. -- good, but not worthy of destination-eating . . . I even waive my other rule (besides the slice-available one) to only try pizza from places that only sell associated food; this one sells things like buffalo wings, usually a sure-fire sign of mediocrity.

Interesting and good, but enough of a departure from NY pizza, is the Patsy's at 1st & 118th. Only that location.

Ray's on Prince used to be good. Only that location. I haven't been there in years.

Chinese: Grand Sichuan, and only for certain dishes. In fact, they dump everything you knew before 10 years ago or so into a category marked "American Chinese Food", and they might as well have added a skull and crossbones icon. Great: Dan Dan Noodles; Spicy Gui Zhou Chicken; Smoked Tea Duck; Shanghai Bok Choy; a few others. Don't blame me if your General Tso's Chicken is bad. 9th and 24th is their reliably good (noisy and crowded) location. Their others are more a matter of interlocking directorates than true chain, and so (for better OR worse) the same dishes can be very different. Their newest location, at 7th South just above Houston, is the nicest dining room.

I've given up on bagels...I've had better ones from a chain supermarket in Arizona than I've found in NY recently. I'm thinking of trying to make my own. I make better pizza than Joe's anyway, so why not bagels?

"Joe's was best slice before they closed the real one (anyone claiming they moved doesn't actually remember... the "new" one existed BEFORE the old one closed... I know, same "owners"/"ovens", whatever....... but its not actually the same pizza."

Thats not accurate. The original Joes was on the corner of Bleeker and Carmine. After being a NYC landmark for YEARS, the landlord decided to raise their rent. The owner (I spoke to him in depth about this) told them to take a hike, and so they said your lease expires on "x". That gave him enough time to find and lease the space two doors down, on Carmine proper. Of course, he planned it so that there would be a small overlap so that they wouldnt be unable to serve pizza for weeks while the new place was rennovated. Once the new place was completed they moved all the ovens and equipment into it. I am not sure why you say its not the "real" Joes anymore.........

alanhart, i'd forgotten about Grand Sichuan. When we lived in Chelsea that was our delivery Chinese option. you're right, it's like the people in the kitchen split up the menu into things they would like to focus on, and the rest. Don't they have Mao's home cooking or something like that as well?

Mao's home cooking as a section? I don't recall seeing that. I think they have various Mao-named dishes. Explore: http://www.menupages.com/restaurants/text/grand%20sichuan/all-areas/all-neighborhoods/all-cuisines/

Eddie, didn't Totonnos in Coney Island just burn down?

totonno's had a fire on the roof but they are gonna be able to reopen soon. best slice in my opinion. difara is a nice second. and the best slice of sicilian is spumoni gardens by a mile. i love grand sichuan. the green bean pork dish is so good i could have it daily.

"Thank you for rejecting pie-only shops.

Yes, Joe's is the best pizza in Manhattan; yes, the original one was (slightly) better."

Ha, alan, you and I are on the same page. Funny how many folks miss this. Too many tourists masquerading as "New Yorkers".

"For me, the only real second-place is the little-known Che Bella, on Amsterdam at 120th St. -- good, but not worthy of destination-eating . . . I even waive my other rule (besides the slice-available one) to only try pizza from places that only sell associated food; this one sells things like buffalo wings, usually a sure-fire sign of mediocrity."

Ha, amusing. Although, interestingly enough, the best wing places in Buffalo sell other things. Some sell more of the other than the wings. Maybe its a wing thing, folks outside of buffalo seem to think "real" wing eating is a pile in front of you, while in Buffalo, the locals get them WITH stuff. Pizza plus wings is pretty standard.

"Interesting and good, but enough of a departure from NY pizza, is the Patsy's at 1st & 118th. Only that location."

Thats what I meant by uptown patsys. The others are clearly centrally managed. I suspsect its the same setup as tontonnos, original is "real" and others licensed.

> Ray's on Prince used to be good. Only that location. I haven't been there in years.

I agree! And I don't know what happened... but it sucks now!

Apparently, it is the original rays actually. The original one had some partners, they broke up, one is that one, and the other sold rights to make the big chain thats everywhere, original famous. Surprisingly, I like the latter sometimes, even though its definitely chainy and a different "thing".

I also have done ok at Ray's of GV (6th ave, I think). But not in the realm of the other stuff we've been takling.

"Chinese: Grand Sichuan, and only for certain dishes."

There are like 5, and different owners!

9th ave is the best by far of the ones I know (also tried Chinatown, 55th & 2 and 9th and 48 or so). Some foodies I know have it as their #1.

"In fact, they dump everything you knew before 10 years ago or so into a category marked "American Chinese Food", and they might as well have added a skull and crossbones icon. Great: Dan Dan Noodles; Spicy Gui Zhou Chicken; Smoked Tea Duck; Shanghai Bok Choy; a few others."

Ah zhui or something (its pronounced like a sneeze) beef is my favorite after the awesome tea duck.

"I've given up on bagels...I've had better ones from a chain supermarket in Arizona than I've found in NY recently. I'm thinking of trying to make my own. I make better pizza than Joe's anyway, so why not bagels?"

Its in the water!

Avenue X bagels. Of my long time locals crew choices, thats the consistent pick. I actually think most of Manhattan has turned to crap (and the yuppie BH-CH-PS ring sucks, too.). I say go to localville, the south part of brooklyn. I used to like the places on flatlands, but they both closed.

H&H I do like, but I always considered them not quite bagels. They add like sugar or something, and do something technically different. They're like automatically crispy, which I konw folks love for toasting, but its almost fake to me.

To me, the old school awesome bagels were a bit fluffy inside (almost like a good challah) and the shell was still a bit crisp, but not too much. A little bit of chewy. Just awesome all around.

Have never had that in Manhattan... and not sure where to go anymore really. Ave x will be my next stop.

> Eddie, didn't Totonnos in Coney Island just burn down?

Fire, closed for a couple weeks they said. It looked pretty bad, but not like DONE bad. Could have been mostly the decor (which was crap anyway) that got it. I don't think the over burned. ;-)

I think I heard long enough ago that it should be open again.

I love these type of threads...little bit of nyc!!

Somebody get julia some bagels.

BTW, julia... medians are down in the 20 percents now. You still not seeing any discounts?

“My original comment had nothing to do with eating H&H, it was the fact that the East Vs West feud is public knowledge, and part of NYC history.”

Actually I think your original qualifier contradicts you
“most of you are likely aware of the East vs West feud regarding H&H bagels”

alanhart, i just pulled up the menu. they do indeed have a category titled "Mao's home cooking." priceless.

Mrs Miggins Pie Shop

Ess-A.

"Actually I think your original qualifier contradicts you
“most of you are likely aware of the East vs West feud regarding H&H bagels” "

Living downtown shouldnt preclude the fact that you wouldnt have heard of the feud (or H&H bagels for that matter). The feud is part of pop culture, having been discussed on shows such as Seinfeld, Entourage, Sex and the City, as well as a number of other movies. I am going to assume that you are a recent implant to the city (welcome!), which is why you likely dont know about H&H. You are hard pressed to find a born and bred New Yorker who doesnt know about H&H, even those who dont (GASP!) like the place! H&H is one of the few NYC establishments (regardless of whether you like it or not) that is known literally around the world.

True... but often the most popular are just that, and not the best. Somd folks spend effort on quality, some on advertising.

Ask a ourist what the best hot dog is, they'll say Nathan's. If you couldn't tell, they're mediocre at best.
Tons of New Yorkers will also say Gray's Papaya. They apparently got sucked in by Sex and the City and the fact that there are 20 locations.

But Payapa King, the ACTUAL original (funny how gray's complains it is being ripped off) is significantly better. This isn't just a preference thing, these guys actually get more expensive natural casings and such, and have a better grill, bla bla. This one isn't even a contest...

Yet, you'll hear Nathan's and Gray's 100x more.

And the reason I noted this example specifically is because folks often get misled by irrelevant factors.

Nathan's was FIRST. Thats where the "name" comes from. Not best, just first.
Gray's was CHEAP. It became famous for the deal, not the quality.

But play 10k games of telephone over 20 years, and a bunch of tourists who also think Magnolia is the best cupcakes... and you get mistakes abound.

Of course, lets not forget that Papaya Kind was featured in Crossing Delancy, which is the non-made up version of Sex & The City.

I also remember for years how out of towners thought the Waldorf was the best hotel in town...

Thanks, Coming to America and such...

> Ess-A

Decent bagels, better toppings. But if you need the toppings to make the bagel.... its like needing 10 toppings on a pizza.

And that's like Cali-style pizza -- all about the toppings, but on a neglected foundation.

well put, ah...

Not a recent transplant unless you call pre Giuliani recent.

Of course I know about East vs West. I almost made the mistake of buying on UWS once but at least never even considered UES.

Of course I know about H&H. Just did not know about the H&H battle.

> Not a recent transplant unless you call pre Giuliani recent.

I wouldn't call it native...

BTW, I was born here, and I have never heard of the "feud". Maybe its like Tufts, which thinks it has a feud with Harvard. Only harvard doesn't know.

"But Payapa King, the ACTUAL original (funny how gray's complains it is being ripped off) is significantly better."

I couldnt have said it better myself, you have GREAT taste when it comes to your 'dogs! Papaya King is the original and best, Greys sucks in my opinion.

"Of course I know about H&H. Just did not know about the H&H battle"

My apologies then. I suggest you try one to see what all the fuss is about ;)

"And that's like Cali-style pizza -- all about the toppings, but on a neglected foundation."

IMO a pizza without a foundation is like a car without wheels....I am personally offended by these "no sauce, only spinach and dough" pizza impersonators that some restaurants (and even pizza joints!) try and sell.

pizza = crust + sauce + cheese + toppings in moderation (in that order). Anything else is an abomination.

http://www.unapizza.com/

I dislike H & H too. Not enough stuff on their bagels. I like Tal or Essa or pick a bagel better. Matter of taste.

oh pizza too - I love Arturo's and Joe's for a slice. Local pizza 33 isn't half bad.

NYC10022.... that Tufts comment is hilarious! OBTW.... I get rejected from Tufts.. .that was when it was "easy" to get in :)

Hey ccharley!

Attending a conference once in San Diego, I made the mistake of selecting a "New York Bagel" for breakfast. I kid you not, it was just like a thick wad of wonderbread.

"Attending a conference once in San Diego, I made the mistake of selecting a "New York Bagel" for breakfast. I kid you not, it was just like a thick wad of wonderbread."

Thats hilarious, the two things you should NEVER buy in California (unless torturing yourself is fun) are pizza and bagels.

Hey W67 -where did you go on vacation? Can I live vicariously through your adventures? Can't believe Tufts rejected you. I was a Brandeis girl for a year then I fled MA for PA

I had an H&H bagel earlier and I can confirm they are just as good (if not better) than ever. RUN, do not walk, to H&H east side and get one yourself! Personal preference of course, but they are delicious!

I'm surprised no one mentioned Szechuan Gourmet on 39th st. for Chinese. Somewhat similar menu to Grand Sichuan, but much better execution. I love the Crispy Lamb Filets with chili cumin, spicy cucumber salad, Stir Fried String Beans with yibin veggie buds (OK, I don't know what yibin vegggie buds are exactly, but they're delicious) and many other more exotic selections - I've not yet worked up the nerve to try the stir fried duck's tongues. and the cold sesame noodles they often throw in for free are the best in the city.

I grew up near H&H (westside)...Used to love those as a kid!!! Also Vinny's pizza (back in the 80's or early 90's I guess) was really good...

WOW,
Tried to resist this thread.
Too much time on our hands.
Best in taste and show...Oasis Bagels right off the Nothern State Parkway...Queens.
H&H??????? You are splitting hairs about crappy bagels!

What do you call birds that fly over the sea?......................................Seagulls
What do you call birds that fly over the bay?

I said it before...great thread...

So since we moved I haven't gotten bagel. I decided to try a local place right across the street. Boy was I surprised - they were really good. Stuff was only on one side ( I like 2 sided dips) but they were delicious -not too doughy and not too hard. Think it's called bagels and more. Who would have thought. I'm very happy because that is a necessity in any neighborhood. It was packed too with old people- who have developed their taste for good bagels after years of trial and error.

> "But Payapa King, the ACTUAL original (funny how gray's complains it is being ripped off) is
> > significantly better."

> I couldnt have said it better myself, you have GREAT taste when it comes to your 'dogs! Papaya King
> is the original and best, Greys sucks in my opinion.

Ha, thank you!

Its always easy to tell who the transplants are... they know ALL the best spots, but they just aren't.

Grey's... give me a break.

I was in Ft. Lauderdale and went to Epsteins for a bagel and they had the strangest bagels...they were awful...

Epstein's, or Einstein's?

I know the latter is all over florida. Its like lenders.

Tal's is the best bagel IMHO but I boycott them because the service is horrible (83rd & Lex). They do nothing for you and always have the tip cup stuck in your face. So I go to H&H on 2nd Ave by default. Anyways, $1.15 for a plain bagel is highway robbery.

What about Manhattan below 14th Street? Is there a decent bagel to be had?

nyc10022...you're right it was Einstein and they were more like hard donuts.

Such timing for a bagel thread! I'm not commenting for seven days.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

Below 14th St....I think Bagels on the Square was good, but I haven't had one in a long time.

I am going to chime in here, and it goes like this

1) Bagels: H&H either location, you can't go wrong. However, if you want a sandwich, you have to go to UES location.

2) Pizza - Grimaldi's - under the brooklyn bridge. Since weather is turning great way to spend day is walk over the bridge, have pizza and water taxi back.

3)Chinese - pecking duck house - obviously get the duck, best in nyc - for other Chinese the nice restuarants are very "americanized" Mr K's is great but not traditional. Love Phillipe's but expensive and family style.

Your all very welcome,

BIG AL

"2) Pizza - Grimaldi's - under the brooklyn bridge. Since weather is turning great way to spend day is walk over the bridge, have pizza and water taxi back."

Don't confuse the nice walk with the pizza. That place was bought by Russians and they make like 3x the number of pizzas they used to in the same kitchen. Nowhere near the top. Similar thing happened to Lombardi's, and John's to some extent.

Tontonnos (the original, not the semi-related chain) is as closed to it used to be in NYC, they don't do anywhere near the volume. That and DiFara and even Franny's will beat Grimaldi's almost any day.

Of course, the national rankings actually often point out Sally's in New Haven beats 'em all...

As far as peking duck house guys, note its mostly white people in there. Not best in new york, just most expensive. You have to leave Manhattan for the best these days anyway.

"However, if you want a sandwich, you have to go to UES location."

OK, anyone who says "sandwich" in comparing bagels is officially banned from this analysis.

In Chicago, their "pizza" makes a great roll for their sausage.

allow me to expand NYC 10022 - What i mean by sandwhich is not you are thinking. The west side location will not do a bagel with cream cheese, that is a "sandwhich" to them. You have to buy the bagel and a side of cream cheese and make it yourself. If you want the bagel sliced open and have something added to it, they will NOT do it. Thus a bagel with cream cheese is a "sandwhich" and if you want one, you have to go to upper east side.

Lets turn to the pizza, i dont care if it was owned by the same people that owned the Peking Duck House, its still great. I can't say anything about original Tontonnos never been, the one one second ave in the 70's/80's is horrible.

Finally, lets talk Chinese. If Peking Duck House is the most expensive chinese restaurant you have been to, you should gracefully bow out of this discussion.

BIG AL

Since i am new to the discussion, i will let you all in on one of the best eating experiences in nyc - and none of the vendors are from the city.

June 13-14 Big Apple BBQ block party: http://bigapplebbq.org/

Get the speed pass to speed past the long lines....ENJOY!!!

"Lets turn to the pizza, i dont care if it was owned by the same people that owned the Peking Duck House, its still great. I can't say anything about original Tontonnos never been, the one one second ave in the 70's/80's is horrible. "

Yes, and thats called a CHAIN. Its like going to Pizzeria Uno and saying "I don't like CHicago Pizza".
Of course you'll think Grimaldis is great if you've never had the better pizza in town.

"Finally, lets talk Chinese. If Peking Duck House is the most expensive chinese restaurant you have been to, you should gracefully bow out of this discussion."

Its certainly the most expensive duck house I've ever been to, a good 3x what the better places charge. I've been to Ks and Chow, they're fun, but I wouldn't call 'em great at all.

BTW, if you are someone who thinks price has something to do with best chinese, then you DEFINITELY need to bow out of this one.

> the one one second ave in the 70's/80's is horrible

I've been over this before.... Tontonnos in the 70s is called Tontonnos of Coney Island. It lists 3 locations,a ll called TOntonnos of Coney Island. NONE ARE IN CONEY ISLAND. That is a CHAIN. It is a LICENSED NAME. Tonotonnos is not tontonnos of Coney Island, its just the small damn Tontonnos thats actually in Coney Island.

Same as going to any patsy's that isn't on 116th (leaving out the unrelated non-pizza restaurant).

Different people, different MENUS, etc, etc, etc.

Its like calling Pizzeria Uno Chicago Pizza.... or believing pizza hut has a "New York special".

walk over the bridge, have a slice then a water taxi back...that sounds terrific; my cousin is coming for a visit and I never know where to take her...thanks nyc10022