Time to Sell in Williamsburg?

I say hold on to it.

Williamsburgh is becoming a hyper-prime neighborhood, and with recent taxation changes in Hong Kong real estate, Chinese money will come flooding in.

And there's the ferry to Wall Street, too.

alan, I'll see if we can get the ferry operators to give out free sidecars with each trip. Probably the only thing that'll get you on board (pun!).

A better question is what valuation level will finally make it worthwhile for Williamsburghers to peel off the tarpaper facades that try to look like shingles trying to look like bricks that happen to be green?

Is the indoor garage self-park?

alan, you got me there. I think there's some confusion as to whether the tarpaper is art brut...

Of course, self-park! I wouldn't have it any other way. Even if my car is of a late 90s vintage.

A strict investment ownership, yes I'd prob sell.
As my home, I don't know, it depends on where I'd need to live next.

I suspect BJW is happy where she is and the size she has, why sell? TO go find another more expensive 2/2?

truthskr, lest you be channeling a certain SE miscreant, I am a he, not a she :)

And yep, part of the problem is where to go. Rents in the neighborhood are unpalatable to say the least. And there aren't many neighborhoods (Manhattan included) I'd prefer at this point.

Hamilton Heights is getting a third restaurant soon. And there's always Akron.

??? Jesus all this time I thought you were a she LOL

BJW I am in Bburg as well. What I have noticed is that all investors seem to be jumping to sell, which is perfectly understandable. But I think that the floor for prices in Bburg is just getting set. So it is now at around $1000 sq ft. This is still well below Manhattan and, as you know, lots of people prefer Bburg over Manhattan. So while the rapid increases in price that we are seeing now will likely slow, I see no reason why prices will dip from where they are.

So continue to enjoy...

Ottawa, maybe not any sizeable dips, but how in the world do you see any real appreciation from this point? At least anytime in the next 10 years? I suspect this is close to the top and prices will at best track inflation. Not particularly attractive in terms of upside if you ask me. I do love it here, just a bit tempted given the insanity out there.

AboutReady always sells too early, and she hasn't sold yet, so no.

why sell rather than converting it to investment property and get depriciation against the income?

Well right now Bburg prices seem to increase 5% monthly. So no that will not continue, but there will still be a very strong demand for condos and new construction. So what other neighborhood has comparable stock to Bburg in terms of being condo, new construction in the $750,000 - $1.5 million (2 bedroom)? Moreover, there is loads of new rentals being built, but barely any new units for sale. So more density and corresponding services (yuppie infrastructure - which had been lacking).

So no the current pace is not sustainable, but will continue to rise alongside the rest of the market. And you can still get to two bowling alleys in less than five minutes.

Is there an Eataly? http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/34911-flatiron-inventory

Just the Bedford Cheese Shop, but don't worry as there is now one on Irving in Gramercy, so easy access from flatiron.

Well, I'm sure according to somewherelse, the Bedford Cheese Shop will increase values in Gramercy by another 10%.

If you like living there sit tight. The real profit in real estate is gained by holding onto property for very long periods of time. Which actually means 10 years is a start but 30 or more is best. If you can sublet it why sell?

Don't sell, remain where you are. Why are you asking a rhetorical question, bjw2103?

bjw2103,

Do not sell! Williamsburg is doing fine. Why are you asking a rhetorical question? Are you looking for contention?

As others have said, it depends on where you would live afterwards, AND what you would do with your money. Maybe you should rent in new neighborhood, see how you like it and make your move. Also different if you plan to retire to different part of the country in a few yrs. If you do sell, you probably don't need a broker. Just post open house on SE. Or try to negociate a very low comission with aptsandlofts or another broker.

> around $1000 sq ft. This is still well below Manhattan

If you think Manhattan is 'well above' 1k a square foot, then your perspective is clearly warped. Proobably a good sign of a bubble...

Fabbrica is essentially a poor man's Eataly!

Not sure I agree buy and hold is always the way to go, but appreciate the input.

swe, agreed. Certain segments of the market (ie: prime Manhattan, new construction) undoubtedly goes for well over $1K psf but it's certainly not the norm.

I think this bubble has room to run. So long as the Fed keeps printing money, this is going to go higher.

I agree that prices do not have much higher to go simply because when you get to $1000+ psf you are starting to talk about a different category of potential buyer. At $1000+ psf you are eliminating the large pool of potential buyers who drove the price to $1000 psf over the last few years, and those who can afford that much are likely be able to afford a bit more and to buy in Manhatten. I agree with one of the posters who said that some prefer to live in Williamsburg over Manhatten, but I would guess that, socio-economically, there is a large overlap between that group and the group that is getting priced out at $1000 psf.

Swhrlse: What exactly are you comparing: all of Manhattan to North Williamsburg? In that case you come to a dumbass conclusion. I am talking about places in Manhattan that someone who lives in Williamsburg might want to live and condos. I did quick search on condos in chelsea, GV, EV and Soho on condos and it was just over $1700 a sq ft.

The rent v. buy equation still makes sense in Bburg for regular buyers with good incomes. SO guess that agress with Dancon, although it does not account for the massive number of foreigners who buy in BBurg.

Ottawa, somewhereelse is the smartest person on SE. Don't forget.

I really don't know anything about foreign investment in Williamsburg vs. Manhatten, nor the pricepoint at which foreigners interested in Williamsburg would start to get priced out. Even my previous comment was only based on my personal experiences in different circles/goups of people without looking at any hard slaes data so I could be way off...

Don't forget the real estate taxes are on abatement, therefore Williamsburg seems even more cheaper.

HB: I did forget, but then I am warped so hardly surprising.

Danc: Foreigners have a very hard time buying co-ops, thus they are limited to condos, which drives up the already limited supply and also adds some interesting diversity.

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20130426/REAL_ESTATE/130429897

Just buy a unit in a small new-ish building with no doorman nor ammenities.
Stay inside your apartment posting comments on streeteasy discussion boards, under various nom de se's.
Don't go outside and stay away from the waterfront.

bark bark bark

"Swhrlse: What exactly are you comparing: all of Manhattan to North Williamsburg? In that case you come to a dumbass conclusion. I am talking about places in Manhattan that someone who lives in Williamsburg might want to live and condos."

So, let me get this right. If I want to live on 5th avenue in the 70s, but can't come anywhere near to affording it, I should use 5th avenue prices as my benchmark for value in my harlem condo?

Talk about dumbass conclusions. Dumbass premises, too.

Pretending the person who bought the WB condo was sitting there and deciding between that and a similar condo in prime GV is just moronic.

And anyone using that as the financial benchmark has some really lousy math and logic to start with.

Is a Yugo a good car just because the american version of the compact car cost several times as much?

1. see SE's Flatiron thread
2. eporting that new condos at Madison Park, Madison Ave and 23rd-24th Streets
3. are rolling out at $2500 - $3000/ft

4. the skyrocketing re-pricing of desirable Manhattan neighboirhoods
5. is likely to lead to spill-over demand in Brooklyn and WBurg
6. which will drive prices/ft higher
7. quickly

not a financial guru so i am just asking an honest question
if you are considering selling now at a potential peak vs holding long term- like 10-30 yrs as mentioned above- wouldn't you have to consider the cap rate of return that the money you are leaving in the re investment is missing out on
for example
you bought a 1000 sf wburg unit at trough for 600k, put 20% down, now unit worth 1 mil
so you could sell and walk w approx 450k after expenses tax free

I bought the s&p at 700 in 2009.

What in the world should I doodoo?

yikes that is good for you. You must have been able to buy big tires for your jeep. You have anything useful to contribute?

SWE bought the S&P double long on exactly the low point, so SWE is still much smarter than yikes. Right?

attaway ottowa...y ... it's a shame Yikes mother didnt practice birth control

havent sold yet--so no proceeds to spend on tires (not sure what causes you to think ive a jeep).

speaking of vehicles, i'm using this thread as a passive-gloating vehicle.

isnt it great that I bought the s&p when I did?

whatever the case i'll take your comment to be a suggestion i sell my s&p position and use proceeds to buy tires

a heartfelt thanks for your helpful contribution

Yikes, I just figures that with your need to - completely out of context - brag about something you did almost five years ago that you must drive some type of vehicle with large tires. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Small%20Penis%20Truck

Jeeps are driven only by girls and The Gays. As compared to convertibles, which are driven only by girls, The Gays, and geezers.

That's a fact, Jack.

bjw: Unless you have a place to move to that you like equally or better, hold onto the property. I believe the property values in your part of Williamsburg will only increase (south of N.12th, north of Grand, west of Bedford). There is no denying the popularity of the area - it has become a "destination" for people to spend the entire day. I've lived in NYC for the past 12 years and have not seen an area change in popularity so quickly. Other people I know who have lived in NYC longer concur, including colleagues who live in and around the Meatpacking which has changed drastically. With the development of Domino, I also believe the area will only improve with age. People tend to lump every neighborhood that is not Manhattan into the same categories as Jersey City, Long Island City, East Brooklyn, etc. This place is completely unique for a number of reasons including its close proxiity to much of Manhattan. The current sales in the area reflect this. The "priced out of Manahattan" argument no longer applies. I live in a 1 bedroom and keep an eye on similar units "in Manhattan". There are plenty of 1 bedroom properties "in Manhattan" priced below 1 bedroom units in some parts of N. Williamsburg. Also, you have a parking spot....priceless.

canuck: your thoughts re my penis will only cause you frustration--i am happily monogamous

so now, back to my original inquiry: what should i do with my greast purchase

If i was in your shoes, i would sell it.

and buy in LIC, like you have?

"yikes that is good for you. You must have been able to buy big tires for your jeep. You have anything useful to contribute?"

pot, kettle....

"Yikes, I just figures that with your need to - completely out of context - brag about something you did almost five years ago that you must drive some type of vehicle with large tires."

You and the reading comprehension... not so good.

Greensdale brought it up, not me...

Tell me again about... "You have anything useful to contribute?"
You know, outside of being way off on Manhattan averages...

"and buy in LIC, like you have?"

Correct!
lmao!!

What's the deal with LIC (Hunter's Point) these days.
Prices are hovering in the 800 psf...

WHERE'S THE SUB 500 PSF THAT YOU BEARS 'GUARANTEE' IT WOULD HAPPEN SINCE 2009!!?!?!!
IT'S ALREADY 4 YEARS!!!

Give ME 500 PSF in LIC or GIVE ME AAPL!! Wait, Aapl went from 700 to 390 in a span of 6 months.
YIKES!

Maybe you should hold on to your 1 bedroom BJW.

Williamsburg is experiencing a virtuous circle -- as it becomes more popular, more retail/dining infrastructure, more people of means living in the hood, then more people who previously wouldn't have considered it now will. Prices are still much lower than comparable quality condos in west chelsea , and the street level look on the streets is getting more and more high end , which appeals to the kind of people who pay "insane" prices . This is certainly changing the look of the no longer so hip north Williamsburg area, but but ..but ..there is still plenty of less expensive space on the edges of that area that it will be a long time before all the character providing grit is gone. So bjw, prices may be insane in willaimsburg , but are still less so than areas in manhattan and the things that appeal to insane paying buyers are just getting rolling .

I think Williamsburg has appreciated most of the way to where it will live relative to Manhattan, and I don't expect it to go down, certainly. So if you are looking to stay an owner in the neighborhood, or a similar neighborhood, there is no reason to sell at all, as you are just going to move with the rest of the market.

If you're looking to take money off the table and rent or move to somewhere vastly cheaper, that might make a lot of sense, especially if you're betting on another bubble.

However, if you're willing to take your winnings and buy in an area that you DO expect to appreciate faster relative to the main chunk of the city, then I think you might have a compelling reason to sell. We just did that, and are getting rewarded handsomely, as condo prices in Harlem have moved from ~$500psf to over $800psf just in the two years we've owned there. We're about to take our money off the table and move, but not because we think we've maximized the return. Quite the contrary-- when you compare central harlem prices to equivalent prices in the rest of manhattan, I think it's clear that the number will coast past $1,000psf before it levels off-- I'd guess about $1,200psf (relative to today's market) if I were a betting man.

So, in short, if you're willing to move to the next rapidly gentrifying area, it's probably a good investment.

I'd still like to get Aboutready's input into the OP. She's said before that she's a seller significantly before the market peaks, so if she hasn't sold, then we aren't at the point where it is 3-5 years before the potential peak.

Yawn.

Oh, give him credit -- that was funny.

Not really. Repetitive. And not really true.

It's repetitive because you were away and we didn't get your input before. I think we all value your input, so welcome back!

bjw, I forgot about this thread: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/33807-williamsburg

Apparently Misha called the Williamsburg bubble 3 months before you did, but then she (I assume she, either way though) went on a crazy rant about construction quality without foundation (get it!?) here: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/34210-williamsburg-real-estate-buyers-beware?

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/05/nyt-still-making-williamsburg-hipster-jokes.html

3 in a row.

greasy.

C0lumbiaC0unty, you had your third stroke, I'm sorry to hear that.

I hear CondoPresident is selling and moving to the suburbs. He says Wmsburg isn't family friendly.

So, for those who follow such things, check asking prices on the most recent listings -- which are clearly aspiring to (anticipating ...) yet another gap up in prices. Will see soon how it goes .....

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/882006-condo-139-skillman-ave-williamsburg-brooklyn

This is my favorite. If this place goes for 1000 sq ft, with its cheap finishings, then the sky is the limit.

I've actually noticed that places seem to be lingering now, which I infer by fact that they are not sold after first open house.

Well, I did mention 139 Skillman in a recent wb thread as evidence that the wb price insanity is spreading. Prime?

I confirm that aboutready did indeed mention 139 Skillman.

Was that in personal conversation or on a se thread ?

It was on a SE thread.

talk to yourself much?

C0C0, what happened with your wife and the deer?

go ahead, tell us.

you know you're dying to.

I'm not dying.

But you seem kind of embarrassed by the question.

really?

yes, you seem embarrassed.

what does that look like?

>what does that look like?

red

Williamsburg JUST became cool: http://observer.com/2012/01/david-karp-tumblr-founder-buys-in-brooklyn/

bjw2103, did you end up selling your unit 20 months ago? Prices are now north of $1,100 psf.

Williamsburg hasn't been cool since May 2013.