Where can you buy this apartment for $3,600 a month

Steve - You lucky guy. We've been in the Ellington for over two years, but could never get a "C" line.
We're in 23E now - not quite as usable a floor plan. We travel a lot, but come knock on our door or leave a note so we can offer you a "welcome to the building" glass of wine.

We looked in that building last summer when trying to find a short term rental and we were not impressed.
Finishes are poor, typical of 80's construction, popcorn ceilings, horrible neon lighting in the kitchen, flimsy windows that let in all the traffic noise from the street on Saturday afternoon in August and on the 17th floor... Everything we've learned to hate about NY rental stock. So we passed.
But there is an apartment and a deal for everyone so if that works for you, it's great. Congrats on scoring that one! It seems that the prices have dropped significantly since we were there. Good news for us as we are now looking for a permanent rental after giving up on buying.

Stevejhx, congratulations! I hope you will be very happy in your new home.

Looks like an outstanding value.

How did you go about finding it?

cliff, thanks, move-in will be end of November. I don't drink alcohol, but I'll take juice! I'll knock, or slip a note. 21C.

rear_: the bathrooms are updated, balconies just refinished, all the windows are double-pane with no noise. The floors will be refinished before I move in. The kitchen could use some work, I admit, but since I don't cook I don't care.

Lobby being redone as we type. View is of the Hudson River & New Jersey.

I could personally install a kitchen for under $10,000, so that's no obstacle. But there is NOTHING comparable to that price to purchase that would cost under $12,000 a month for 1200 square feet + 2 balconies.

That's what rents are today. Let's see if Juicy can come up with a co-op comp!

Topper, I walked into the building and asked.

"NOTHING comparable to that price to purchase that would cost under $12,000 a month for 1200 square feet + 2 balconies."

sure? $12k sounds too high. owning costs imho should be lower as you give up mobility, down payment, transaction costs and the like... but many disagree with this.

"But there is NOTHING comparable to that price to purchase that would cost under $12,000 a month for 1200 square feet + 2 balconies."

for under $12k/month??? lol

Real Estate for Sale
In All Downtown or All Midtown
We found 2 listings with monthly payments of no more than $3,500.00 at least 1,000 sqft with at least 2 bedrooms with at least 2 bathrooms
Median price: $447,000 Median size: 1,298 ft² Median price per ft²: $348

Those two listings are timeshares.

tricky - it's up to you to find something.

here you go....

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/362951-condo-112-west-56th-street-times-square-new-york

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/434726-condo-340-west-57th-street-clinton-new-york

Steve, congrats! As long as you're happy, doesn't really matter what anyone says here. That said, I never understood why people like Jersey views - a bit masochistic, no?

Tricky:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/362951-condo-112-west-56th-street-times-square-new-york

StreetEasy History

11/05/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $1,625,000.
11/09/2008 Price decreased by 2% to $1,595,000.
01/27/2009 Price decreased by 4% to $1,525,000.
03/18/2009 Price decreased by 3% to $1,485,000.
04/01/2009 Price decreased by 3% to $1,435,000.
04/29/2009 Price decreased by 2% to $1,400,000.
08/04/2009 Price decreased by 0% to $1,395,000.
10/08/2009 Price decreased by 0% to $1,390,000.

and still:

Down Payment $278,000
Mortgage Amount $1,112,000
Mortgage Payment $6,314
Total Monthly Payment $9,126

So you're actually saying that a "comparable" apartment that has had its price reduced nearly $300,000 and has been on the market for a year and STILL costs 2.5x more than the rental, is worth the money?

SUCH A DEAL!

bjw, you can't tell it's Jersey from a distance. :)

Oh, and tricky: add the transaction costs in, and see what happens to your "theory."

I don't have any transaction costs. No fee, $3,600 (deposit) at risk. Property crashes, no loss to me!

i'm not saying it's a great deal, i'm just saying it's less than $12k / month, that's all...

yep tricky. instead of $12k should be around $8k-$8.5k imho as those monthlies $9.3k-$10k are based of aspirational asking prices.

still, what a waste when you compare to $3.6k! way to go steve!!!

steve, first of all I'm genuinely happy you found a place you like that you will call home for the next two years. Congrats.

However, that floor plan isn't a shade over 700 sqft. Tough to do a comparison with inaccurate data

Oh, Juicy! Sorry you can't see the trees from the trees. It's about 1200 square feet - I've been inside it, and the floor plan dimensions are accurate. View of the Hudson, walls of windows.

Now then, about buying: if I could BUY that place for what it costs me to rent it, and keep it FOREVER (as "forever" as I am, anywho) I would.

But I can't.

Eventually I will be able to. Just not now.

I'd give it a little more, maybe 800sf max. Nowhere close to 1200sf. Don't tell me Steve fell for the oldest trick in the book?

Also, what value is 2 small balconies versus one small balcony? One larger balcony would add some value but a second small one? I think it adds zero, myself.

If the floor plan dimensions are accurate, can you tell me how you get to 1200 sqft? I'm rounding up for a partial foot

13*11 = 143
24*12 = 288
8*8 = 64
17*12 = 204

So unless your bathrooms are 500 sqft, there tain't know way this is a 1200 sqft apartment or, the floorplan is way, way, way off.

i'd say it's about 850sqft without counting balconies (they are a big plus imho) assuming measurements are correct (you take the same gamble when it comes to comps though).

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/460697-coop-205-west-54th-street-times-square-new-york

that's a similar one without balconies but with maybe a better layout, $5k owning costs without counting tax advantages, maybe $3.7k with tax advantages of owning... but down payment is stuck, big transaction costs wasted and mobility is impaired.

Because, Juiceman, you need to count the bathrooms, hallways, closets, and the entry area, and the interior walls. One takes a perimeter to determine square footage.

I currently live in just under 1000, and the difference is palpable.

Agree with main point: market will not reach equilibruim until there is a more reasonable relationship between costs of buying and renting. On top of this, rents are going down.

Here is a similar-sized 2br apartment listed at 955sf (still inflated but not as much as that hilarious 1200sf) and $3795 asking rent, if you get the standard 1 month free it is lower than Steve's at $3500 effective.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/556396-rental-230-west-55th-street-times-square-new-york

"my theory"? hey steve, it's not a theory, it's call 5th grade math.
but i guess if you were to have $500k of closing costs, it might bring you to $12k/month.

i don't understand why you just can't admit that your $12k/m is far off.

modern, here is the floor plan for an apartment that is exactly 800 square feet:

http://350bleecker.com/newsletters/g-line.gif

Not even close.

re: http://350bleecker.com/newsletters/g-line.gif

wow, look at that tiny closets! having 2 walking closets, i'd have to go to WC rehab if i ever have to give them up for those tiny ones.

"i'd say it's about 850sqft without counting balconies (they are a big plus imho) assuming measurements are correct (you take the same gamble when it comes to comps though)"

850 is being very generous. Can you believe this guy is trying to convince us his apartment is 1200 sqft? Did he forget we can look this stuff up? He posted the floor plan! Can't make this stuff up.

"Personally, I wouldn't step out onto a balcony anywhere above the 6th floor, so they're useless to me."

This is a quote steve made a few months ago about a balcony. LMAO

You must be using broker math to get 800sf. No way.

I am not sure how a floorplan of an apt on Bleecker with different sized rooms can be used to justify another apartments sq footage.

Look at the 2br floorplan I posted listed at 955sf.

http://img.streeteasy.com/nyc/image/4/6804504.gif

Compare it to yours.

Your MBR is about the same.
Your living room is smaller
Your kitchen is smaller
Your 2nd BR is smaller
Closets look roughly the same
Bathrooms look the same.

Given the above, where is your extra 250sf?

Congratulations steve, you rented a 1 bedroom with two bedrooms in it

"Personally, I wouldn't step out onto a balcony anywhere above the 6th floor, so they're useless to me."

You're right - one is for my cats.

No broker math.

re:"Personally, I wouldn't step out onto a balcony anywhere above the 6th floor, so they're useless to me." This is a quote steve made a few months ago about a balcony. LMAO

JM, LOL LOL you should be a detective! i imagine you right there next to mc nulty and kima.

had this sq footage discussion with a friend about my own house long ago. he didn't count the closets (walking ones, so they take up a lot of space) nor bathrooms. i counted 825 to be exact in steve's case by basically completing the 2 rectangles. this assumes that you count bathrooms, interior walls and closets.

if you are talking about actual living space in bedrooms and living room ... then i didn't do that calculation and hopefully we should arrive to different numbers.

And guys, no more fighting about the size from me. I've been there, I've seen it, I'm delighted with it.

modern - even if you posted 955 or 1100 (and BTW I think it's about 1000 square feet) and even if you want to call the Ellington unit 1100 instead of 1200 (fine by me), there is NOTHING to purchase at that price.

Just proves my point - even at your rental, rental prices are way, way below purchase prices.

"But there is NOTHING comparable to that price to purchase that would cost under $12,000 a month"

Hold on, Steve, are you saying that prices went UP recently? I thought it was 2x as expensive to own, not 3.3x.

"One takes a perimeter to determine square footage."

Is this true? I've never heard it calculated that way before. It also begs the question, how does a perimeter help you calculate square footage accurately when your apartment (and rooms) is not a perfect rectangle?

"walking ones, so they take up a lot of space"

If these closets could walk, they probably would take up more space (sorry, couldn't help myself).

"i counted 825 to be exact in steve's case by basically completing the 2 rectangles."

admin, I think that's a pretty good estimate. Done another way, if you look at streeteasy's history of 260 West 52nd st, there are 168 rental recordings at an average of $53 per square foot. That is a pretty good sample size. If you take steve's yearly rent ($3600*12 = $43,200) and divide it by $53, you get ~815 sqft. LMAO!

steve, you better call the management company, because someone sold you down the river if they convinced you this place is 1200 sqft!

"Steve, are you saying that prices went UP recently"

No. I'm saying that rents are DOWN much more than prices.

Usually the perimeter is taken for square footage - except garages in Florida ("under air" it's called) and in some places basements.

I lived in the Bleecker St. apt. that I posted - it's just about 800 square feet exactly. One broker, though, listed it as 950 square feet. IMPOSSIBLE.

admin, if you do it your way it's fine (most don't) but the usable entry space and the cove next to the kitchen aren't counted in those dimensions, which would bring the total to about 900. Add in baths & closets & hallways and interior walls, and you have the difference.

The point isn't the exact dimensions. Settle on 1100 - I'm happy with that. Find a comparable purchase even close to that price.

Can't be done.

The only way I can get to 1200 would be a 40X30 space where you would add the upper left quadrant of the floor plan image to the apartment to make the entire space a full rectangle rather than the L shape that it is presently. This apartment is approx. 3/4 the size of a 1200 sq ft apartment.

I agree that the current rent/buy formula points to rent, but the price comparison here can't be vs. a 1200 sq ft pad.

"And guys, no more fighting about the size from me. I've been there, I've seen it, I'm delighted with it."

Well just admit that the place isn't a 1200 sqft and more like 800 and then we can finish the conversation you (emphatically) started. You know, the one about finding a comparable property to own? Can't answer the question without the facts.

"The point isn't the exact dimensions. Settle on 1100 - I'm happy with that. Find a comparable purchase even close to that price."

You are right, since you haven't found a rental close to that size either!

Congrats, Steve. I count 1100-1200 sq ft (closer to 1100 if you don't count outside walls, 1200 if you do), but then again that's because I know how to count. Regardless, nice deal.

Show us inonada, if you "know how to count" better than the rest of us, please share.

Yes, I would like to see this math as well. This is closer to 1200 cubic feet.

Secondandc is exactly right. The apartment portion at the bottom of the floorplan looks to be approximately 40 feet long; the portion at the right of the floorplan looks to be approximately 30 feet. That would be exactly 1200 sq. feet if the apartment was a full rectangle. Subtract 25% (and that's being generous, based on the size of the cutout) and you're at 900.

Just pop the thing over into Powerpoint and replicate the following. The cleanest dimension on the floorplan (not subject to irregular shapes) is the vertical dimension on the bigger bedroom or the horizontal dimension on the smaller bedroom. Re-scale the picture so that that dimension is something convenient: e.g., make the 11' width on that smaller bedroom be 1.1 inches in your program. Then, measure out the big boxes, using outside walls since that's how things are typically quoted.

Draw a line from the top of the bigger bedroom to the bottom of the living room, and you get 36.0 feet. Draw a line from the left edge of the bigger bedroom (i.e., beyond closet) to the right edge, and you get 20.7 feet (i.e., the closet and the outer window add up to about 4 feet beyond the 16.4 feet listed for the room dimension). That is one box. For the other box, measure from the left edge of the smaller bedroom to the left edge of the bigger bedroom to get 22.8 feet. Then, measure the top edge of the smaller bedroom to the outside wall on the bottom edge of the smaller bedroom to get 17.0 feet. Then do some math: 36.0*20.7 + 22.8*17 = 1132.8 sq ft. Take out 10-15 sq ft for that empty corner at the top-left of the smaller bedroom.

All those interior big black boxes filled with stuff to hold up the building, unfortunately crap, but universally counted in square footage. At least we're not counting hallways and elevators and lobbies and gyms like the new idiotic building.

So, how do you get 800 sq ft?

And apologies on not being too accurate with my 1100-1200 estimate before. I was measuring out with my fingers earlier on the screen.

Seriously, though, I don't know who's the bigger idiot. JM for insisting that this is 800 sq ft. Or Steve for insisting that this can't be bought for a monthly nut of $12K, including transaction costs / cost of capital for downpayment / etc. But then again, that's why I love you both and you keep me coming back.

inonada, you're completely assuming that the measurements on the floorplan don't already already account for the outer walls and such, so you're potentially double-counting.

Sorry but without interior pictures it's hard to judge this apartment. But even without pics, the notion that its purchase price would add up to $12k/mo is ludicrous.

"No. I'm saying that rents are DOWN much more than prices."

I realize that - was just poking fun at the notion that this might somehow cost $12k/mo to own. It does imply that you think prices have even more to fall now than they already have. That's a bit aggressive for my tastes.

"At least we're not counting hallways and elevators and lobbies and gyms like the new idiotic building."

No, we're not, though it does have a hallway, elevator, and lobby (and gym)!

modern makes my point: another good quality rental building nearby at rents substantially below owners' carrying costs. If you want to do a comparison, the city does it for you at:

http://nyc.gov/html/dof/html/property/property_condo_coop_comp_rental.shtml

You can find any condo or co-op in the city and the rental building(s) it is compared to for property tax purposes. Then compare owners' carrying costs with market rents and tell me what you get.

OVERPRICED!

I'm sure I can buy a 800 sqft 1 bedroom for under $12k a month.

It's not hard to calculate this apt. You only have to measure 2 squares. The master bedroom is where I made the screen adjustment. All you have to do is shrink the floorplan to where the master measures to 1 and 1/4 inches wall to wall to match the 12 foot top to bottom dimension. By doing this, every inch represents 10 feet. So the master/bath/kitchen/most of living room dimensions are 19 by 38 outer brick to outer brick. The 2nd bedroom/bath and partial living room is 21 by 17.

19 by 38= 722
21 by 17 = 357

total = 1079 interior sq feet.

Point is however, this is still a million dollar apt if it were for sale.

And the question is, is it even worth to buy if you bought it for 800K?

without spending much time, I picked this building and this is about as close as i got to a match in $ and unit (yes, only 1 bath and no balconies)

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/394083-coop-305-east-40th-street-murray-hill-new-york

Bjw, I ain't potentially doing squat. You see how that 12'-1" vertical dimension on the big bedroom barely has any wall thickness on it? That's why it makes a nice base to other measurements (as opposed to, say, the 16'-5" on the other dimension that has the big outside window wall on it). Compare that to the 11' horizontal dimension on the small bedroom. You'll see that the only way to make those two line up is to assume the measurements are for interior dimensions (which is standard, BTW), because if you assume walls, then the 11' would need to be either 11'-6" or 12' because the bathroom wall on the right is 1' wide. That's how I know whether the outside walls were being included or not.

So how exactly do you determine the square footage of a place you are going to pay money for? Just make crap up?

30yrs: that apartment is in one of the worst neighborhoods ever. Right next to the tunnel traffic, miles from the subway. It is big, though.

truth, no, it's worth about $500,000 to buy. Couldn't get it for that, though.

Seems like a good deal for $3,600 rent, especially if you were paying $4,500 previously for something comparable. That area has improved dramatically, even though it's still not Chelsea. To me it looks like the perfect floor plan for a single person who works at home. I agree you can't buy anything in the West 50s for $3,600 that has two balconies and two bedrooms. Don't know where your rent will eventually land in five years, though. Here's another way to look at it: Instead of paying $5,500-$6,500 gross for a condo in Manhattan, how much house land can you buy in the country by paying only $3,600? I think if it were important enough to own in NYC, though, you could find a condo in Bklyn or LICC at $3,600 that would work just as well. I know you'll pshaw Wmsbg and LICC, but I don't consider either of those a step down from W.52nd St.

LIC is absolutely out - it's dismal. I once thought of Park Slope, but too far away. Working at home I need to be close by things, and since I had a major audition with the booker at Caroline's yesterday, and another one for the owner of Broadway and NY Comedy Clubs, I may be performing there a lot, as well.

Rents will be about the same in 5 years time. I don't have a rent increase for 2 years in any case.

lowery, that part of the city is great, much better than it was just 10 years ago. 9th Ave. has plenty to do, just as nice as 8th Ave. in Chelsea. No brownstones, but the Park is right there.

“Draw a line from the top of the bigger bedroom to the bottom of the living room, and you get 36.0 feet.”

So the floor plan states 12’ 1” length for the Master and 12’ 3” length for the living room. For this to be 36 feet (as you have stated), the bathroom, and exterior walls would need to be 12 feet in length. Either the floor plan is whacked or you have to find 12 feet.

“Seriously, though, I don't know who's the bigger idiot. JM for insisting that this is 800 sq ft.”

You may take the prize if for a for a minute you think this apartment is 1100 sqft. Have a look at the streeteasy rental history, there isn’t a two bedroom in that building over 950 and those are going for a higher price than steve's.

Have your tried pulling this into a program, or are you just talking out of your rear, JM?

Assume the bedroom is 12'-1". Maybe they're lying about the whole number, but there's only one way to interpret that number, right? You'll see that the edge of living room dimension from the interior edge of the bottom wall to the kitchen's bottom edge is 12'. They list the whole thing as 12'-3" because they are trying to adjust for the interior irregularities taking out the bottom-center of the room and the space at the top-right of the room. That leaves us with 11'-11" to account for. The kitchen and closets are 10'-10" tall, and the window/outside wall are 1'-and-change.

So you still haven't answered: how do you get 800 sq ft?

"You see how that 12'-1" vertical dimension on the big bedroom barely has any wall thickness on it?"

I don't, actually. You see that extremely thick black space by the tiny closet? That's almost surely included in the width.

"assume the measurements are for interior dimensions (which is standard, BTW)"

I didn't know that, but I'm surprised if it's true considering the rampant square footage inflation that goes on in the floorplan world. Personally, I find JuiceMan's method to be sounder - calculate square footage for all the rooms listed and add a best estimate for bathrooms, closets, and hallways (the latter of which don't really exist in this apartment).

"30yrs: that apartment is in one of the worst neighborhoods ever. Right next to the tunnel traffic, miles from the subway. It is big, though."

Actually, it's considered a good building with historically strong sales. I've bought and sold 3 units in there and always sold quickly (once a flip to someone already owning in the building and trading up). It's not nearly as impacted by the tunnel as you think.

"calculate square footage for all the rooms listed and add a best estimate for bathrooms, closets, and hallways (the latter of which don't really exist in this apartment). "

That's not really appropriate. You calculate outer brick to outer brick including walls and it gives you the max it could possibly be. Then you could subtract for wasted space.
This gives you best case scenario and any number advertised over you know is bullshit. If it falls within 10% of what they are advertising, you can be a little lenient.
And as a buyer, it is better for me to prove that it is smaller!
Combine that with comps to other apts your looking at and make your decision.

Ive seen full floor apartment floorplans that boasted larger footprints than the building dimensions!
Now that's a neat trick.

Steve, congratualtions on your new home and may you and the cats enjoy many happy times there. (Please tell me you AREN'T letting them out on the balcony though...tempting as it may be for both man and beast to let them enjoy the fresh air and sunshine they have no concept of height and high rise syndrome is lethal for many felines.)

"So you still haven't answered: how do you get 800 sq ft?"

I didn't come up with 800 sqft, I came up with 699 (see above genius, I posted it hours ago) and rounded up generously for closets and bathrooms.

bjw, steve can't even argue anymore and inonada is using PowerPoint to draw lines that don't exist. Not to mention that when looking at square footage on a unit for sale, steve uses the same method I used above to determine square footage.

"calculate square footage for all the rooms listed and add a best estimate for bathrooms, closets, and hallways "

And to add to my point, sellers do this as well which pads the footprint in the other direction and thats why "the system" is so F'ed up.

How about this one a block away from steve?

http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&listingid=1892220

300 sqft larger than steves place and with 20% down and a tax benefit you get a monthly cost of $3,625.

300 square feet larger! LMAO!

It's a tenement! LMAO!

"With the tax benefit"

LMAO!

With the transaction costs...!

JuiceMan, you have become a laughingstock, like spunky before you.

Bjw, do you know the thickness of that black line? Of course you don't, because you like to pull numbers out of your rear. It's 5". So 5" on 12'-1" is an offage of 3.7%, which amounts to a 7.5% offage on area, which means you can just rescale my 1132 sq ft to 1053 sq ft, which is still nowhere close to your pull-a-number-from-thin-air 800 sq ft. In any case, those 5" are not part of the 12'-1" since then the 11' dimension on the smaller bedroom would not be anywhere near working out.

Here's a suggestion. Go find an architecturally & attorney general blessed square footage for an apartment for sale from before the recent boom when they started including common areas (stupidly, but legally). Try to get to that number from a floorplan. Once you have done so, you might understand how it's done. Consider the time spend edumacation as it might turn out handy.

Dude that apt is about 100 sq ft smaller and Im willing to bet it's a walkup.
Sorry but to me, an elevator is worth 2000 a foot for the space the elevator takes up.

Amazing! JuiceMan claims that "his" apartment is 300 square feet bigger than the Ellington apartment, and here are the dimensions

JuiceMan:
LR - 21' x 14'6
MB - 15'8 x 13
B2 - 12'2 x 12 (at its widest)

Ellington:
LR - 12'1 x 12'3
MB - 16'5 x 12
B2 - 13' x 11'

So where, JuiceMan, do you get those "300 square feet" when the dimensions given for both are approximately the same (and your 2nd bedroom is a sewing room looking out over an airshaft).

You are just a joke, man.

Oops!
Ellington:
LR - 23'10 x 12'3

"Not to mention that when looking at square footage on a unit for sale, steve uses the same method I used above to determine square footage."

JM, we all know Steve sometimes idiotically exaggerates to "prove" his point. I'll call BS on him when he does (see earlier reference to $12K/month). If he does that on for-sale units, then he's being an idiot. You doing the same simply makes you just as idiotic, perhaps more so, because you are using his doing so as a "valid" reference.

So JM, by your newfound calculation method, how big is this listing you posted?

http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&listingid=1892220

Steve,

I would also like to note that you shouldn't let your cats out on the balcony - though I am assuming you were joking.

They might jump!

(No, they're too lazy.)

"So JM, by your newfound calculation method, how big is this listing you posted?"

No larger than 900 sqft

"You doing the same simply makes you just as idiotic, perhaps more so, because you are using his doing so as a "valid" reference."

I'm not doing the same. steve's apartment is not 1100 square feet, not even close.

Oh, JuiceMan, you're yet again alone. And pitiful.

You'd be far better off by admitting defeat like all your erstwhile bull buddies who have fallen by the wayside.

hey inonada,

Look at the 2br floorplan I posted listed at 955sf.

http://img.streeteasy.com/nyc/image/4/6804504.gif

Compare it to Steve's.
The MBR is about the same.
The living room is smaller
The kitchen is smaller
The 2nd BR is smaller
Closets look roughly the same
Bathrooms look the same.

If all the rooms are the same or smaller, how can the apt be bigger than 955sf? Or is this the one in a million case where the broker underestimated the sf?

"And to add to my point, sellers do this as well which pads the footprint in the other direction and thats why "the system" is so F'ed up."

truth, not sure I follow - this method apparently seems to undercut other methods by a fair amount. Why would sellers use it then?

Wow, you couldn't pay me to live in that shitty building and would really have to twist my arm in that rather lousy location.

"You are just a joke, man."

steve, I'm not the one who started a thread celebrating a 800 sqft rental and called it 1200 sqft (not) and a "steal of a deal" (maybe $400 bucks cheaper than what someone paid at peak or ~10%)

LMAO

"Look at the 2br floorplan I posted listed at 955sf."

Careful modern, inonada may get out his CAD software and start counting pops in the popcorn ceiling.

"Bjw, do you know the thickness of that black line? Of course you don't, because you like to pull numbers out of your rear. It's 5". So 5" on 12'-1" is an offage of 3.7%, which amounts to a 7.5% offage on area, which means you can just rescale my 1132 sq ft to 1053 sq ft, which is still nowhere close to your pull-a-number-from-thin-air 800 sq ft. In any case, those 5" are not part of the 12'-1" since then the 11' dimension on the smaller bedroom would not be anywhere near working out."

inonada, why the attitude? I never said this was 800sqft - get your facts straight. I found it laughable that this was called 1200, and pointed out as such. I have no idea how you figured out that the black box by the closet is 5" - so that closet is actually less than 5" deep? That's amazing! What do you put in there? A poster? Anorexic boy-toys?

JuiceMan, how big is this apartment?

http://ellingtonnyc.com/11_16_g.html

I calculate approximately 950 square feet. The other apartment is larger than this apartment. How is 950 < 800 in your book?

Sad, sad, sad.

gleeinfold, where do you live, LICC?

bjw
"truth, not sure I follow"

"and add a best estimate for bathrooms, closets, and hallways "

That's what sellers do and the apt miraculously grows 200 sq ft.

The point is "best estimates" are a venue for nonsense in both directions.

Measure brick to brick. That's it. If you have wasted hallways, foyers, awkward areas, you offer less per sq ft.

truth, gotcha, thanks. That magic inflation definitely happens all the time. In fact, it's happening in this very thread.

bjw

Ya I see this thread is more a venue for old bulls/bears to poke and prod each other.

truth, I don't really identify with either, but it is amusing that one of this board's biggest bear is pushing an inflated square footage measurement - seems a bit off, no?

Steve, congrats. I REALLY like that layout.

Coincidentally, I was talking to the Rose folks today. Nice bunch.

whether it is 800 or 1000 sq ft is besides the point - it is awfully funny/ironic that steve has resorted to broker-measurements to tout the value he got. does your apartment 'exude old-world charm'? is it 'steps away from the best Manhattan has to offer'?

> However, that floor plan isn't a shade over 700 sqft.

I've been looking at floorplans live and on paper for the last month.... thats definitely way more than 700 square feet. Insane to think its anywhere near there.

Its way more.

In measuring I've found that if you have a real one bedroom with 11 or more the short way on the main rooms (and then at least 13 and 15 the other way) plus a non-booth kitchen (had one back in the day).... plus a little foyter or hall space... its nearly impossible to get under 650 square feet. And then this thing adds another bed and bath (that master is another 200 square feet).

In the end, though, Steve, I really dig it. Congrats.

Inonada,

Mind calculating the sq ft. of this - I would be interested to see what it would come out to and you seem to have a better way than my eyeballing it? http://www.kibel.com/fp/300east34thstreet/0336.f.pdf. I calculate in the neighborhood of 750 sq. ft.

ha, this is funny, me and my current wife lived there for three years until 2007. We have good memories of the times, but not necessarily of the building. It was always the "little" problems, like one day one of the elevators wouldn't work, next day it would be back, and then the day after they'd take it out of service for repair for a week which would end up being a month and a half. Or the lack of hot water that would seem to creep up about this time of year on random weekend mornings (always seemed to be the weekend). Staff are nice, super, probably overwhelmed and gets rude and isn't so quick to deal with stuff even with a tip. I think it was partly to blame the management offices. Anyway, we didn't know better than to chalk it up to living in NYC. I think some of the better buildings or less kind of like filled with younger people are actually a lot better we've found.

Sweet deal, Steve. Good for you.

Here's a 637 square foot place, Juicy:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/430717-coop-130-bradhurst-avenue-central-harlem-new-york

How does that compare to my 700 square foot apartment?

Steve, don't waste your breath. Somebody just really, really wants to rain on your parade.

I read the reviews on this building. Hmmm