125 north 10th

Broker-Alert, Broker-Alert!!!
I just want to repeat what most of us here know, but maybe there's a few people who are not quite aware of it: There are brokers and other people with agendas commenting on this site.
And you, nycbuyer2, are highly suspicious.

Totally agree, Ena! As for the floor I'm living on, Rex, I don't feel completely comfortable stating it here, but it is an upper floor. Not trying to be rude, I just don't know who's reading this, as we've already established that people outside of the building... Maybe we could start a facebook group to have better discussions? But how do we limit access? Would asking for apartment numbers limit it... Any ideas?

And may I just add: To all those who are only here to stir the pot. In case you haven't noticed: Most of the buyers here are actually still very protective of this building, and we don't want you to push your agendas. Yes, most of us including myself have issues with the building (pricing, uncertainty, lack of transparency etc.). But most of us are also still excited about it and want it to succeed.

dawubee: Such a group actually exists. Shoot me an email. ena125north@yahoo.com

Can I suggest a meet up of 125 north 10th St. buyers only. No brokers, at Mugs Ale House (north 10th and Bedford), to discuss the current situation. How about 5:00pm Saturday May 20th. If anyone else is interested, please comment on this discussion, or show up!

dawubee, i am the person who started this thread. refer to your old posts. u needed answers to the same questions i initiated. now that u see the pot of gold u hate yourself for having spent so much time in fear. don't hate on others who may have posed questions that reiterated it. we were only looking for the same truth you were.

i agree ena--- nycbuyer2 seems suspicious.

thedealwhats125: Love the idea of a meeting. Just wondering if a lot of people might be out of town over the holiday weekend (I will be). Then again: There's some urgency if the closing letters are now indeed being sent out.

I would be interested in meeting as well, but I will also be away for the long weekend. Is there any chance for a Tuesday after work meeting? Maybe around 6:30?

dawubee, you might want to look back on streeteasystalkers comments. They prompted a conversation that needed to be had. I am not suspect of any intention to instigate negativity.

Tuesday after work sounds great

A 6:30pm Tuesday May 26th after-work meeting instead of Saturday would work for me also. Anyone else?

Sorry, I just found that I have a late meeting Tuesday. Would 7:00pm instead of 6:30pm work for other people?

7:00 p.m. is even better...

we are in as well. See you at 7pm on Tues

How do we make sure there are no moles? Maybe everybody can bring their contracts plus ID for verificatino purposes? Or does anybody have a different idea?

wow paranoia coupled with an aversion to any opinions that run counter to yours is not a healthy sign. financial decisions should be made devoid of emotion. no wonder you people bought at the top of the market as you got caught up in the euphoria of ever rising prices. or so you were told by the hyping brokers. you should welcome diverse opinions. it might have saved you from buying a rapidly depreciating asset.

cfranch - why would we want brokers there? why would we want anyone there who doesn't have a vested interest? I don't call that paranoid.

exactly why would anyone else want to show up?

I don't see any issue with contract and ID. It's not paranoia, it's just being cautious. StreetEasyStalker... my apologies for pointing you out. I just wanted to prevent other naive people like myself from posting any confidential information, thinking that the only people that would care to post on this page were people who have a vested interest in the building. After I researched all the postings you have made on other pages and condo developments, I realized that wasn't the case, and that some people are on here for various reasons. Hence my previous post. Not trying to offend, just pointing out the obvious to people who are as obtuse as I am. Although I doubt there are many more people like that!

people who haven't purchased but are interested in purchasing.. to find out where the current contracted stand... in any case, i think a public meeting, displayed on this public thread, is a bad idea. you might want to consider garnering your fellow buyer's emails and make a plan to reunite elsewhere. anyway has anyone received their contacts yet? i'm so curious about this exception-to-the-rule financing the building's got going on...

streeteasystalker, I'm not aware of "exception-to-the-rule financing"...are you referring to the fact that they have arranged for banks to provide financing despite the building not being over 70% sold? (which in fact is common practice, and most new developments have such arrangements with various banks) Or is there another financing exception that I don't know about? Thanks.

cfranch - you can't be serious. why are you on this thread? because you like the building and want to buy when it hits $500 per sq? fine - go for it. but don't call those of us who wish to protect our interests paranoid because we don't want brokers there. the reasons for that are (or should be) obvious. i agree that we should bring our contracts. and by no means would i have an open discussion on this board.

loose-actually i would like to purchase in this building. i think it is the best building in w'burg. i also think prices have been artificially inflated for all nyc real estate. those prices are correcting as we speak and i think have much further to fall. so i look for any info i can garner as to when to pull the trigger. this board is just one place i look.

jpa, yes that's what i'm referring to... so this isn't uncommon?

streeteasystalker, not uncommon at all - most new construction buildings have similar agreements with various lenders.

Great news....I got the closing letter today...anybody else???

jpa91364: This is actually a very interesting fact to point out. Because you always read on the blogs how people seem to think a building is necessarily doomed when it's not 70 percent sold yet.

agreed, ena. but the blogs aren't the only source of misinformation.. this same topic has been all over the media, and reiterated by various real estate professionals.. just goes to show you can't always trust what you hear ;->

and in other news.. congrats!!

hi just reading thru a W11 thread and found the following question. am curious as it pertains to north 10th. anyone know/be willing to share if they do?

<<>>

hm. cut and paste didn't work. let's try agein:

Has the Offering Plan been made effective? If so have they mailed all of the purchasers a list of the units that were sold that they are using to make the plan effective? I think they have to do this at least 30 days before the first closing.

streeteasystalker, yes, the offering plan has been declared effective and those letters already went out to purchasers.

I haven't received my letter yet. Did it contain a list of the units in contract?

It would be great to see that list.

i'd be really grateful to know what's on it as well...

blogo: As a buyer you should have gotten the effective letter a while ago, I think I got it in March. It has a list of the units sold at that point in time on one page.

Huh, I didn't get that. And don't worry, I AM an actual buyer. Did it come from Core, 125 N. 10th, or Starr Associates LLP?

duwabee, just now seeing ur post. i must have hit the send button the same time u did and never noticed it after the refresh. anyhow, no offense taken! i completely understand.

Hi,
Is anyone else showing up at 7 pm tonight? See you at Mugs!

i received closing notice and plan on closing. just an fyi

Meeting-Alert (for Buyers only). So there was a first productive meeting this week, and we decided to do another one so that more people can discuss the situation. We are meeting on Sunday May 31st at 5 p.m. at Mugs. If you haven't been to the first meeting or are not part of the Online-Group we started: Please bring your contract for verification. Looking forward to seeing as many buyers as possible.

As my name suggests, I have been following these discussions but have not contributed. I am a buyer and want to discuss the situation as well. I will not be around Sunday at 5, so i cannot make it to the meeting. I just have a couple questions. One, is anyone's apt fully finished? Mine has been 95% finished for months and just needs to have the floors sealed. Two, can we move in even though floors 1&2 do not have the TCO?

Thanks everybody for the amazing turnout yesterday...

So nice to meet you all last night. Agreed, ena. Great turn out and very informative. I sincerely hope all works out for us and we are able to be neighbors in what could turn out to be one of the best developments in Williamsburg.

It was nice to see so many people at the meeting! It was wonderful getting to know all of my (hopefully) future neighbors. It's great being united coming into closing... I second Detonator in saying that I hope we will all get the ability to move in and create an amazing community. What was the total amount from the meeting again?

not trying to be rude, but just wondering. it seems most of you in this project are in contract for $800-1000 psf. Are you comfortable with proceeding with your purchase at this price?

Actually, a number of units are in the $700s psf.

A number are at that price but a number are much higher. everyone seems so enthusiastic I was wondering if there was concern

Those will have to come down. I think the seller is "motivated", they just don't want to mark them down officially.

I was looking at units listed as in contract

Those aren't listed at what they're in contract for, rather what the asking price was.

We are also in contract - but we are in the wait and see mode. A few important observations:
1. Does anyone really know how many units are in contract in both buildings?
2. There seems to be plenty of storage in both buildings for sale - the anxious broker on site was quoted as saying there is storage for sale starting at $13,000 - odd we were told it was sold out?
3. The most experienced broker on the project seems to have left due to an "emergency" - not that I could blame her with all the bull s..t flying around that place. She will be greatly missed.
4. The Welcome Wagon does not come out when we stop by - rather we are hissed at and treated like bad children. We only are in contractat the building.
5. Also, every finance question is answered with "Call Glenda at Preferred". This buffoon should stop by 80 Metropolitan or any other projects in the area and see how "sales agents" operate - it is illegal in New York State to force anyone to use a person or service.
If anyone is stopping by this weekend please post - maybe if a few of us show up together we can see our unit for more than 2 minutes.

razz: Did you attend either of the meetings the group had over a couple of Sundays? We have begun a private discussion group and have addressed many of your issues. Email here: ena125north@yahoo.com
It's a good idea to include your apartment number.

I hear you about the shoddy treatment on premise. We had an appointment with the broker at 5:00 last Sunday. When we approached the door the broker (not the one we had the appointment with) and guard shook their heads "no", did the "he's out" thing with their hands and the broker pointed to his watch. I understand the open house closed at 5:00, but if you have potential buyers, you can't stay open an extra 15 minutes? That's no way to treat potential buyers or move the units.

We also experienced the shoddy treatment this weekend. We came back for a second look with my in laws. Last time it was a pleasant experience - this time there was some broker screaming and he was giving some sales pitch.
We also noticed that prices are the same as last year, no reductions? A credit? How does that work, can we apply to down payment or closing expense? We were shocked to hear the broker ask if we had an agent repping us -"you can get a better deal working alone". He didn't even notice when we walked out.

The credit can be applied to the price or use toward closing costs.

About the agent, that's total B.S. When you have the same agent repping the buyer and the developer there's a built in conflict of interest. Use your own, and a good one. They can be knowledgible, and effective hard-nosed negotiators.

Does anyone know if the Federal new 70% sold rule for sales in new buildings will count as a mateial change for our contracts? Does this allow us out?

anyone closed yet?
if not, why?

closed

congrats!! when? did u finance with glenda? were u able to negotiate off original ask any? are u in the north building or the south? sorry for the million questions!

oh also, no closings are showing up in acris or property shark-- how long does it normally take for that stuff to load?

Here's a question for everyone on this board: can someone please explain to me in what way closing on this deal makes economic sense? I see people getting excited about moving in and congratulating each other on closing and it makes no sense to me.

And I'm not just being a jerk. I'm in contract on one of these.

people have moved in already? is that so?

If it doesnt make sense for you, then dont close. Each person has an individual reason for choosing to close or not close. There is not a one size fits all. One person made a comment that they closed, Id hardly say people were congratulating each other.

Hence my question: what is the reason for choosing to close? If everyone has their individual reason, maybe they could share them.

Also:
bcc514
1 day ago
closed

streeteasystalker
1 day ago
congrats!!

Are people congratulating each other or not?

No sense in arguing, my point was that 1 person said they closed and 1 person said congrats. Your email makes it sound like this board is full of people who are closing, and since you clearly think it doesnt make economic sense, your tone is a bit insulting. Maybe people can't afford to throw away their deposits?

Regardless, this message board is not the place to discuss personal matters. There is a closed board for owners so if you are interested in joining the info is in this thread somewhere.

it seemed like the courteous thing to say.. u sneeze, i say bless you... doesn't mean i believe in god...

52inc: have u seen people move in?

52inc: I say you ARE a jerk and also quite possibly a broker. So don't expect any of the buyers here to share their "individual reasons" with you....(but I will give you a hint: Some people might actually look forward to live in the building and make it their new home, rather than just flipping it)

why would a competing broker want to create bad press for the building? this makes no sense. at this point in williamsburg, any sale helps the greater cause. and just because someone questions whether they should close on a property whose developer's are largely unwilling to negotiate their top of 2008 prices doesn't mean the person is a jerk. as before ena, this is a sensible question. and these threads are where people go when trying to find sensible answers. there's no reason this thread should degenerate into name-calling the way the others have. what does that say about the people in your building?

I live across the street.
People have moved in.

that's great news! was anyone able to finance on their own or did they all have to go through glenda?

people have moved in. i did not use glenda. did not have any issues closing.

Ok, so as an outsider, how did those of you who chose to close choose to do so? I don't think the poster who said " Maybe people can't afford to throw away their deposits" is really giving anything to other potential buyers out there. From an economic standpoint, either it's worth it to close or it's not. Of course circumstances matter, but yet, what would you say to a potential buyer now? What should he/she offer underneath the stated price?

52inc - if you are indeed in contract, I strongly suggest you join the google group. Contact ena125north@yahoo.com We have learned a great deal from each other and they are a wonderful group of people.

Wishhouse - this building is no different than any other new construction in regard to negotiations. You can easily do the research to see closing prices per square foot of comparable units in North Williamsburg. However, that won't tell you what other concessions may have been made.

If people are interested in the building, they should do their research in regard to the neighborhood, what is available or coming to market, recent prices, etc.,and then try to negotiate what YOU are comfortable with. And get a good real estate attorney.

i still don't see anything on acris. wierd. i have to say, very honestly, the secrecy of the private owners board makes me question the closings.

Stalker - they are closing, a few at a time. Perhaps ACRIS is behind in their postings. People have moved in. If you are in a position to do so, take a walk by the building and you can see for yourself. Also, many new condo developments started their own board. Why would anyone lie about closing when it will be apparent soon enough?

ACRIS can take months to update sometimes - I wouldn't rely on it for quick information.

streeteasystalker = debbie downer

several have closed and moved in.... close to 10, I think. I can't wait to close and move in this week. Just did the walkthrough - it's amazing! With the people who have moved in so far in addition to the great attention to detail and the care that was obviously put into the construction, I feel like this is going to be a great community in a wonderful building. I can't wait to meet everyone. Do people have plans for July 4th? Maybe we should do something on the roof. Have you seen the view from up there? It's unbelievable! Of course, though, because of the 400th anniversary of Hudson's discovery, fireworks are not going to be in the East River this year. I'm sure we'd be able to see something. Cheers!

I apologize for not replying to the posts earlier.

ena, I am not a broker, and whether or not I am a jerk is something my wife needs to decide.

The point of my question is that by closing on this building at anything close to the original asking prices (set, according to my closing documents, before September 2008 - apparently one lone contract was signed after that date), one is immediately in a position of heavily-impaired or possibly even negative equity.

In my opinion, to deny this would imply one of two things: 1) the value of Wburg real estate has not dropped substantially since the DJIA was 11,000, crummy rental apartments were going for $50/sq ft, and Lehman Brothers existed; or 2) the property was such a screaming deal in the first place that any erosion in prevailing market prices has simply resulted in a "catch-up" of value at 125 N.10th.

This is why I asked the question - what is the rationale for closing? Everyone who does so must have had a very serious kitchen table discussion about whether or not this makes sense from a financial point of view, and must have come to a rational conclusion. I would really appreciate it if people could share.

52inc - Again, if you are in fact in contract, why don't you join the private board where these matters are discussed? Why do you persist in calling on people to put their business out here? I smell fish.

Because I have no interest in revealing who I am and what unit I have in contract.

I am really struck by the reluctance of anyone to answer my question directly.

Oh, and let's pretend I am not a buyer - why would I care about this at all? Would a competing broker post this? Would a mortgage broker post this? Would a competing developer post this?

debbie downer strikes again:

http://www.observer.com/2009/real-estate/condo-doom-17-stalled-williamsburg-greenpoint-construction-sites

52inc, i would explain why they stay silent, but it just seems mean.

Hello All,

My husband and I are in contract on a unit in the building and are very excited to move in. Obviously the market hasn't been favorable, however like ena mentioned, we're not buying to flip the apartment, but to have a beautiful home in a community we love.

Ena, I'll be contacting to join the private group because I'm very interested to learn about what has been going on.

Hi 125,
My husband and I are very interested in making an offer and making this our home if the price is right. We came back after quite ahile and seeing numerous properties in Brooklyn. We have heard about several problems in the building from friends. Has anyone heard if any deals are happening in the building - are they giving discounts or incentives? Is there anyhthing we should know going in?

hi brooklynrose, just curious, what are the problems you've been hearing about in the building? they'll negotiate about 15% off ask and allow you to finance the closing.. that's about it.

Hi, Brooklynrose,

I live in the building, and by now around eight apartments are filled, and there is a steady stream of people moving in. There actually should be quite a few closings coming up now, because yesterday the remaining two floors in the South building got the TCO. (http://a810-cofo.nyc.gov/cofo/B/301/783000/301783185-02.PDF).

The building is really great and lives up to its promises, and I am very happy to live here. Not sure what problems your friends are talking about. Sure there are some kinks, like with any new development. But I think they are rather minor, and I have to say so far everybody on the sponsors side has been very accomodating in fixing or replacing things in my unit.

If you would like to have a little more information from an insider's perspective, feel free to send me an email at ena125north@yahoo.com. I will be happy to talk to you about

Otherwise: If you are thinking about making an offer, I can only encourage you to do so. I know that the developers have not drastically cut the asking prices, but they certainly are motivated.

52inc; you are definitely not a jerk. One must look into this purchase without any emotion. I understand that it is in the best interest of the families that already went through the Closing that the builder will sell as many units as possible. I am not a broker and I am not planning to get into this business any time soon. We purchased an Apt and planning/hopping to close in the next X weeks. We like the building and the area very much. We are facing the same dilemma.
1. Should we close if the builder will not give us any concessions?
2. Should we walk and lose the down payment?
Some facts and concerns:
1. If we walk and lose our down payment can we find (in the current economic condition) a similar apartment for less money which will compensate us for the lost down payment or even better?
2. The builder must sell (and close) 35%, 30 Apts, of the building for the building to legally be a condo.
3. If the builder will not be able to sell all the units, he has the right to rent the unsold Apt. I will be very concerned if 50% or better of the apartments will be rented. What will this do to the price of our Apt and also to the overall long term condition of the building?
4. I am not sure how many units must to be sold before we can apply for the 421-A Tax Abatement?
5. What will happen to the current unit owners if the builder will go out of business? I think that all the current owners will have to share the entire building maintenance fee and more.
So God help me, I hope we will make the right decision.

questions 1 & 2: cant help you
concern #1: also cant help you
concern 2: incorrect. the plan is effective. they needed x in contract, not closed. its done
concern 3: fair concern. dont know the answer. although i'm told that the terms of their loan refi are loose and they have a lot of time to sell units rather than rent for income
concern 4: 421-a abatement doesnt have anything to do with # of units sold. the building qualifies. it gets a value assesment and a certificate. then official abatement. done
concern 5: the equity sponsor owns the unsold units and is responsible for maintenance costs. if the building goes bankrupt, the bank owns the units and is responsible for maintenance and so on...

Keepin it real, the prices that is:

http://curbed.com/archives/2009/09/25/curbed_pricechopper_dramatic_price_cuts_in_williamsburg.php#more

what a joke. i look forward to the next pricecut press release when a whole new batch of owners can lament their 15% overspend.

As an owner, I think it's awesome they're doing it. I'm excited to fill the rest of the development up. I thought they were going to do it a month ago, but it's better late than ever!

*clears throat*
never. I meant better late than never....

It's still a little high for no W/D in the units.

srsly? no washer dryer?? no srsly. do any of u people read the paper? these prices are still de.lus.ion.al

still seems expensive. it looks like the old prices are still in the website.

This building is on life support. Hardly any units are closing, they have open houses everyday they are so desperate. The building manager told me there are only 13 units sold. Great project, the bank doesn't even want it back. Forget about the W/D or microwave move on. They are drowning.
Pity the unlucky 13 that bought there.

Buy your own microwave. Is the D Bag still there?

lol lippy. and yes.

lippy11211, get your facts straight. 16 units in the South have closed and several more are in contract. The second building can't close yet because it's not ready, but it's close.

sounds like the facts are straight, only a small minority of the 90 or so units have closed

That's misleading. Over a third of the units in the south building have closed, and well over half are in contract. North building can't close yet, but will be able to soon. These are going to sell. The buildings have a lot going for them long term. Location, location, location (3 blocks for the L, 2 blocks from the park, 2 blocks from the upcoming Bushwick Inlet Park), quality, outdoor space, and now price ... these are going to sell. The best units will definitely go first, but eventually everything well go.