comments on renting in the city and buying in the country

i did this. bought at the top of the market (05) in the town we have the house in. four years later i want to sell to get a larger space in the city(our family has expanded) and to take advantage of declining costs in manhattan. we are going to lose a ton on the house, but hope to make it up in manhattan.

overall it's been nice to have, but maintence is tough. someone in my extended family goes frequently to check on it as we don't get out there once a week. the tax situation is tricky. generally you will need to declare resdinency in NY if you ever want a shot at the good public schools (hunter, stuy, tags, etc.)

What you describe is really a great life style if you can afford it. My wife and I did exactly what you describe when we were first married many years ago (mid eighties) and they were some very happy years indeed.
Be aware (as we are all now) that true second home markets (Hamptons, ski country, Cape Cod/ACK) get hit first and hit hardest when real estate markets turn down so keep that in mind when tying up capital in a second home.

The beauty of the NYC/Manhattan market (a virtue overlooked in the endless sniping betweens owners and renters) is that this is one of the few places in the United States where you have more rental units available than owned units....giving residents who do not need or want additional owned real estate exposure many very good choices.

If you can pull off what you describe, you're a very lucky man/woman.

Last thought (I'm sure you're thinking about this): In a very short time and especially if you have more additions to your family, schools will be VERY high on your list of life priorities. Nuff said.

In theory, its a great idea. I've done the math with friends many times (some who bought).

But the math just never worked out for me.

Even at a discount, anything in reasonable driving/train distance is still not cheap. For what you could carry one of these things, you could take a month of hotel each year.

Or, hell, just put the interest costs away right now, and you'll have a pile you can use to buy what you want when you're ready to move.

Without the appreciation folks mistakenly got used to, the math doesn't really support vacation houses as a savings vehicle.

Put the money away, and use it when you need it.

I'm doing this as well... To be honest, it's a mixed bag. On the one hand, it's nice to get away, go to the beach, cook in a real kitchen and have space to linger and enjoy. On the other hand, I miss out on weekend activities in the city. And because it's 100 miles away, I spend too much of my free time in transit. At the end of the day, if I could go back in time, I think I would have rather spent the money on buying a larger spread in the city with outdoor space and an open kitchen.

And don't get me started on maintenance and repair!

I don't really have major regrets. It's a home and it requires maintenance, sort of a suburban concept to me.

We bought too much. We only have one child and we bought a three level (four if you count the mostly finished basement) with 4 beds/4 baths. Unless you plan on using it for extended family, or have friends who visit (we do, actually, but it's still too big), buy on the smallish side, if you can bring yourself to. Not by NYC standards, mind you, but by country home standards. It will reduce the work.

If I had to choose between travel and the country house, i'd choose travel in a second. the amount you spend on the second home can buy some might fine trips. but we only have one child who is easy to travel with. under other circumstances i could see how the second home would win out. obviously i don't view the home as an investment. it is a discretionary expense i am willing to incur (but only because it was pretty damned cheap). if you feel the need to get a yearly summer rental, buying might be a better choice, although not at this second, as the second home market is not healthy, shall we say.

Agreed they're significantly cheaper... but IMHO still not cheap. They don't sound like much relative to a year ago, but even a few hundred thousand is a substantial amount, that could get you the beginning of an endowment for permanent future vacations.

Just much more efficient ways to pay for vacations.

Now, if you specifically one one location and want to return to it over and over, sure. But the math works out to something like you have to go something like a third of the year for it to pay for itself.

I'm doing this as well as agree with hejiranyc's comments fully....although i decided on Long Beach, LI as its close enough (just barely) to commute into the city by train and is easy to get around with without a car...plus i bought a 1000 sq foot ranch which is small enough to easily manage from a maintenance and repair point of view while giving just enough for room for guests and cooking/grilling in a large space....i have actually just recently sold my co-op, but always used the beach house as my primary location for tax purposes....once fall hits ill be back in the city, but will rent going forward to let everything play out....

All in all, I would highly recommend it from a "get out of the city for a weekend before you lose your sanity" point of view...

Thank you for all your comments, and please keep them coming. We are looking up around Cold Spring, which is an easy train commute if you want it. We are also looking at small houses which go for less than a 1bd in the city (They are still over priced, but are coming down). The downside to buying up there is we will not be able to also buy in the city, given current incomes at least.

The comment about missing out on nyc social life is a big concern for me, especially for my son (toddler). Even now, he has many friends in his school w/ playdates, etc on the w/e.

i love long beach, ny. i only recently discovered it and think it's a best kept secret given its proximity to the city and great beaches. it's not for those looking for land, but i like to walk to everything and it seems you can do that there. how is the market there?

LP1, i can help you there. you can't go up every weekend with kids, they have parties, etc. you make up that some during vacations. we go and cut down our own x-mas tree and decorate the outside and all that. but once mine was in 2nd or 3rd grade, our place upstate became all the rage for her friends. We just bring one with us. If you have more than two i could see how scheduling might be tough, but i'm not tremendously fond of overscheduling the tots myself, so i think it could be done fairly easily until about 6th grade. then it's a bit harder, but by then your children are also staying elsewhere, giving you the opportunity to go with whichever children are around that weekend.

i think the key is to find something you can think of as an opportunity to visit, not a weekly obligation.

I think the tax issue is a big consideration. If you're even considering public, you will need to have NYC as primary residence.

Like you bought at the top of the market, but put 20% down so ok so far...like anywhere in LI is down, but the one unique factor it has is that it has slowly turned into a blend of a residential area and 2nd home place allowing it to hold its value a bit better than vacation home only places...

Its true about lack of land, but being a city guy that is precisely why i picked it...and with it being technically a city, it comes with its own bus system and plenty of taxi's...

And of course the beaches....can't say enough about them....

Now if we can just get a better express train to NYC, but I don't see that happening anytime soon....

hurting, what? if you are renting your primary residence you are still allowed to write off your mortgage interest payments and taxes (although you do indeed need to pay those suckers). I know people in the public schools, and in special programs, who rent in NYC and have country homes. It's a way of life here in PCV/ST, as many have noted not so happily.

"like anywhere in LI is down, but the one unique factor it has is that it has slowly turned into a blend of a residential area and 2nd home place allowing it to hold its value a bit better than vacation home only places..."

You can't talk about Long Island as one block. Its a huge place. And most areas are 99.9% first home or 99.9% second home.

The average American has one tit and one ball.

I get it, you're talking declaring the country home primary to avoid the NYC taxes. i don't know that that would be a deal breaker for me, not if I'm willing to put up with the real estate taxes. plus, then don't declare the second home primary if you want public.

aboutready, LP1 noted one of the advantages was to use the country home as primary residence to avoid NYC income taxes. This is commonly done, but can not be done if you want your child in NYC schools. Of course you can have a second home.

i pointed out that i was having a slow moment. very slow.

no worries. how is life in pcv/st? seems like they are dropping prices like crazy there.

"The average American has one tit and one ball."

I have no idea why nyc10022 felt the need to include this but found it very funny.

Besides the school issue, declaring your weekend house as your primary to avoid NYC taxes is, well ILLEGAL, not to mention highly unethical. Basically you want to leech off everyone else, because somehow the rules don't apply to you. Do you work for AIG FP group?

we also do this (rent in the City and bought a place last year in LI) - its been so much fun so far, although the maintenance is pretty high in terms of dollars and hours. But we like it and while we don't have kids right now, we think the "beach" house will be lots of fun with kids.

Question - How does one go about changing your residency to out of NY? My wife works in LI and does the reverse commute so hopefully its legit. has this ever been challenged?

I don't have a job right now although will be getting a big lump sum payment soon and i can be considered LI resident than we could save some money.

any thoughts?

to be clear, i am not working the past few months and so i don't believe that it would be illegal although i spend 3 days in the city and 4 in long island.

hurting, life in stuy town/peter cooper is just fine...and I'm a full rent person. Are the upgrades top of the line? No. But, I love the sounds of kids playing in the playground, the old-timers are adjusting to the plethora of dog residents. We sold last summer and opted to rent, and we have a place in the country. Not commutable, but we love having it. LP1, don't assume that owning in the city is maintenance free...and if you are going to be dealing with kids and scheduling, be realistic about dragging them away from their friends.

hurting -- very good point on the public school and declaring residency.

In looking for country houses we are also making sure they have good school districts for our child or resale value, and we're also seeing if it's a place where we could envision ourselves living year round (at some point).

well, of course, i am an advocate for the second home. over the years, it has been crucial to remaining sane while working and living in manhattan. we made the choice to have it over travel which was easy given the amount of business travel the last thing that i have ever considered restful involves a plane of any sort.

i would say that in order to pull this off, you have to be committed to using it most if not all weekends otherwise the cost and sheer hassle of maintenance (money aside) will overwhelm you. my favorite form of therapy is mowing the lawn; if that sounds crazy to you, a second home is probably not the way to go.

very true that the kids will lose all interest for a number of years---it was a huge step leaving the older one behind the first time...by the third time it was a relief and break for all of us and given the fact that the police never were called it seems to have worked out. now that they're older, it works out as a great place for everyone to come from time to time and unwind in a familar setting that is in every way home.

do not even consider this if your main consideration is investment--as it turned out for us, we were remarkably fortuitous in our purchases although for many years in the 90's our home at the time was basically worthless as nothing sold around us for close to 7 years.

"You can't talk about Long Island as one block. Its a huge place. And most areas are 99.9% first home or 99.9% second home."

Thanks for the education....i guess LB is the exception then...god forbid i generalize.....

Columbiacounty -- I'm not thinking of this as an investment at all. Thank you for pointing that out, b/c I think that's a key difference. I love walking to work in the city, but as we get older the noise is starting to get to us. Would be nice to have some space for stuff, and woods for my son to explore.

"Besides the school issue, declaring your weekend house as your primary to avoid NYC taxes is, well ILLEGAL, not to mention highly unethical."

Come to think of it, i know very few people who pay NYC taxes....its the whole problem with the higher you raise the taxes the more people will do to avoid paying them....just like more people will be filling in Palm Beach now over New York thanks to Paterson....it just ends up netting out to zero as you collect more from fewer people...

Just get the electric bill in your name, take the LIRR once or twice and your good to go....although since there is no tax compliance police for NYC you wont have to worry about it....

the question is how do you do defend it when you have an apartment in the City as well.

I am not an acountant, but I believe that if you work in NYC you have to pay NYC income tax if you have ANY residency in NYC, rental or owned, primary or ssecondary--it's only if you don't have NYC income that you can have a secondary residence in NYC where you stay less than a certain amount of time(I think 179 days) that you don't pay NYC taxes.

> "The average American has one tit and one ball."
> I have no idea why nyc10022 felt the need to include this but found it very funny.

I was just showing the danger of "averaging" two very different groups, in this case vacation area LI vs. primary home LI. Most neighborhoods - Long Beach being the exception, as the only very commutable south shore beach community - are pretty much all the way one or the other. Nassau County in general has a very small share of vacation homes.

If you're doing this to avoid NYC income taxes, you should know that NY tax auditors are very aggressive in cracking down on this abuse. I know of a couple of folks who claimed residence, one in NJ and one in CT, who both rented in Manh. They were audited and paid significant penalties. The auditors look at phone records, credit card charges, etc, to really see where you are spending your time. Good luck.

I will give you a brief snippet of my life. It is solely based on economics. I am above avg income so can afford these choices. Some may think it poor choices, some brilliant. It has just worked for us. I own a country home for personal use. Own various properties in other states that I rent out and enjoy positive carry on and capital appreciation. Yet I have always rented in Manhattan. As much as Manhattan has appreciated for long term owners over the last 7,10,15,20 years, on an after expense basis, there exist many communities that have performed significantly better. Some of the greatest RE opportunities in the history of planet earth existed in the early 1990's, and they were not in NY State.

Now, we are actively engaged in attempting to purchase a property in Manhattan for personal use. Many inputs go into making these decisions beyond economics for each person. I don't consider myself an angry renter, but an informed renter. It is just that my scope of ideas extends beyond the east and hudson rivers. Capital is an asset that needs to be deployed where you feel most comfortable about potential risks and returns.

We just feel that the risk/reward ratio of Manhattan RE, the choices that are opening up, the opportunities in other communities, the desire to have a more stable environment and other emotional inputs I won't go into, are making us lean toward buying vs renting. (hopefully sometime in the next 12 months)

The tax deal I believe is as follows:
New York City will tax income that you generate in NYC regardless of where you live. If you work at a desk in Goldman's office downtown every day but commute home every night to NJ, you declare that income to NYC, pay your taxes and get a deduction (credit?) for other taxes paid on your NJ return.

If you have income but no NYC income but have a residency in the city, then the question will be is your residency in the city your primary residency or not....how many days do you sleep there, where do you vote, where is your child at school etc.

You do not want to fudge this issue. When my wife and I moved out of the city in late 1980's, we were audited when we switched from NYC resident return to NYC non-resident return...for the obvious reason that NYC wants to make sure they are getting their "fair" share.

If you work in Jersey or Columbia County or wherever and truly just keep an apartment in the city to come in weekends and special events, no NYC return required at all.

"I am not an accountant, but I believe that if you work in NYC you have to pay NYC income tax if you have ANY residency in NYC, rental or owned, primary or secondary"

Guess my CPA will be going to jail....

No, this is not true....you file based your primary residency....

"New York City will tax income that you generate in NYC regardless of where you live. If you work at a desk in Goldman's office downtown every day but commute home every night to NJ, you declare that income to NYC, pay your taxes and get a deduction (credit?) for other taxes paid on your NJ return."

This again is not true...as soon as you file with HR at Goldman that your address is NJ, the system automatically determines that NYC tax should not be withheld from your paycheck (meaning you do not have to pay it) and when you file your NJ tax return there is no option to pay NYC taxes since the tax return is derived off your primary residence...

Even if you wanted to be nice and pay taxes to NYC you wouldn't be able to....

There is no longer a commuter tax. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commuter_tax

It never simplifies your life, I'll tell you that. But I've seen family after family do it. They get nothing out of it in terms of schools and incur all the costs and headaches of home ownership. They spend all their time commuting back and forth until finally their kids get old enough to refuse. I wouldn't do it, but I won't keep a car in the city either and all my friends do that too...

who ever suggested that it would simplify your life? as i said earlier, it kept us sane --- always saw it as a refuge. does create a lot of options down the road, as we are currently exploring. at some point, manhattan hassle overwhelms manhattan benefit. getting very close to that for us.

patient09 makes an interesting point above; the only reason we ever bought in manhattan was because we bought as insiders...other than that always seemed far too risky to me.

Hi LP1, we've owned a little place in Putnam County and I think that we were lucky to get an inexpensive home. The upside is that we have the best neighbors one could ever hope for. On the other hand, it entails many chores over some part of the weekend, advance planning, and living with the aftermath of our good weekends.

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Hmm...okay...I guess I need to go over this again with my CPA.....my circumstance is the reverse actually.....I commute out and generate NJ income and pay NYC tax on it....on top of NJ tax (a reverse commuter tax I guess)......a small price to pay to live in this great city...

But do you pay NJ state income taxes on the income earned? If not, you are paying the income taxes where you live, which is what NYC went along with earlier.

LP1, as i stated earlier, I consider it a discretionary expense. it could become an investment, i guess, if i ever chose to rent it out (awful investment) or if we chose to live in it seeking long-term stability (so so investment, not good at this point).

we love the Cold Spring area. absolutely gorgeous, not that far, train connection.

having a country home is a pain in the ass, and a joy for the soul.

Not sure why you are paying NJ taxes at all.....since you live here you should (and seems like you have it right) pay NYC taxes....

Do you think all those people coming in from CT pay an ounce of NYS or NYC tax at all even though they generate their income here?

You're considered a NY city resident if you (or your spouse) have a "permanent place of abode" in NYC (which can be owned or leased) and you spend more than 183 days in NYC. It doesn't have to be in the abode, so if you work in NYC and own or rent in NYC, even if it's not your primary residence, you are subject to NYC income tax as long as you stepped foot in the city more than 183 days.

dmf13:
I do know the bulk of the tax code but have chosen not to comment because of lack of interest. You however, have brought the most accurate comment yet. You bring up the correct argument when you speak of "abode". There has been case law regarding Wall Streeters sleeping on couches during the week to avoid the commute to NJ and the court deciding they were in fact taxable residents. My question for is the following. So the bread winner neither works or spends more than 183 days in the city, yet the non working spouse spends more than 183 days in NYC. What are the pertinent questions?

it appears not to be worth it - which is what we originally thought - but figured we should think it thru given the new change in life (not working, wife working in LI).

it is a significant amount of money for us (being out of work!)

this depresses me...all the comments about the taxes...

get a house in the country if you want a house in the country.

if you live in the city, pay the @#^#%taxes. enjoy your house in the country, but don't even consider the house because of the @#^$#$^ taxes.

I'm also quite enjoying this thread as we are thinking about purchasing a vacation home. Our biggest issue is with the maintenance (mostly hours, but cost too). Are there any places within driving distance of Manhattan that are nice vacation getaways but don't require maintenance? We're thinking a condo or a townhouse or something...

-DT

http://downtowny.blogspot.com

It would be nice to have a getaway, but by the time we do our Sat. brunch and workouts, it's the afternoon and we don't want to schlep 6 hours to get some fresh air. And Sat. is date night!

nothing worth having requires no maintenance. we have a cat whom we dearly love....less maintenance than a dog but more maintenance than not having him. why do we have an expectation of no maintenance?

I'm a lazy modern brat. Told my kids that we couldn't have pets because I can't stomach having to walk a dog or clean a litter box.

Patient09: I guess I would ask whether they file joint return--but I really don't know the answer to your hypo.

and of course, they wouldn't be expected to do it.

They're a little young to walk the dog by themselves and empty the litter box.

then they're too young to realistically ask for a pet.

you know, i must say the travel time hasn't been the downside, and for us it is quite far. we really enjoy opening the windows, and cranking the music. our daughter, partially as a result, is a big alternative fan, can't stand pop, and we all listen to the Ramones, B-52s, John Hiatt, Social D. the Stones and the Replacements without a protest (the husband and the daughter are going suspiciously Led Zep on me, Cream, etc). We sing loudly and horribly to the music, even with guests.

the annual freezing of the outflow sewage pipe, well we've tamed that, but i don't want to tell you what it was like the two years we didn't.

10023, no matter how old they are, if they go to school and you are at home, those animals are yours. my daughter tried first with the cat (bonded to me of course, but now hates me because of the dog and is just nasty) and now we have a small dog (wee-wee pad an option, rat creature) who is also my animal and needs my TLC all day long and cost gazillions of dollars because my daughter has allergies. i have pet issues because my mom used to get rid of my pets (and get them) on a six-month basis.

i'm comin' around to the tina24 idea here.

aboutready and columbia county what are your favorite towns? i have always thought the red hook/rhinebeck area was really nice. what are good areas to go house hunting?

jasonkyle, have a look at this thread.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/7317-upstate-ny-real-estate-market-in-collapse

how far are you willing to travel? what are your must haves? what recreational activities are highest on your list? do you want an older home? the upstate area is huge, but i'll be happy (and I'm sure cc will be too) to offer some suggestions, but if we have some basic info we can give much better advice.

This is my current nightmare.
Similar situation. Lived in the city for 15 years and being forced out because we own a beach house and rent in the city. With the struggling economy it is impossible for us to continue to carry 2 houses. Because we OWN the beach house we are moving there full-time.We have two children and they are very excited about living at the beach. When I look at the $$ I've spent on rent and keeping 2 house over the past 5 years, It's like $450,000 and nothing to show for it. If you are going to 1 income I completely say don't do it. Unless you make tons of $$$ carrying two homes by yourself is a BIG burden.
Beware, it sounds lovely but might force you make decisions down the road that you aren't ready for.

downtownster, missed your comment earlier. check out Hudson.

I would say if you are really considering and want to make sure that you are making the right decision, do a test run. Rent a place for the summer, LOTS of negotiable summer rentals out there and do a test run. It will be a good exercise and will help you make the right decision.

We owned in the country - Columbia County, in fact, and rented in town for many years. Finally bought in town in 1991 when prices seemed right. Here's the life cycle as we lived it: drew a 100-mile circle around the city and ended up liking the drive up the Taconic, which still doesn't get the traffic of the big highways and is beautiful. Bought a that had been built by the guy who owned the lumber yard: best quality but worst taste. Did nothing to it but worked on the outdoors. We always said our house restores us, not the other way around. Had two boys and they grew up making forts in the woods on the weekends - what a relief, when they were full of energy "run three times around the house." Once they got to middle school they didn't want to come any more and many of our friends sold their country homes, but ours was so cheap to run, we just let it sit. Advantages of the drive: 1)put the cooler between the kids and they can't fight in the car, 2) two hours of uninterrupted time in the front seat to talk, Fridays and Sundays. We keep the cooler in the closet and fill it during the week with stuff that's in the wrong place.. tupperware, bottles of Fairway olive oil, flannel shirts, etc. Keep the grocery shopping lists (separately) in the cooler too. We stop at Costco in Yonkers on Friday, have the lists with us. NOw that the kids are grown, we're spending Friday morning to Monday morning at the house and glad we still have it. Selling the apartment in town and planning to move back into a rental.

This is an interesting discussion

we work in Manhattan and currently rent, and have started looking for a weekend / summer home to get out of town. We have a 3 year old and the stimulus he could get would be priceless.

We have started looking in southern Litchfield county. The towns we are interested are those within about 80-90mi drive of NYC, so Sherman, Roxbury, Kent, Washington, New Milford and surrounding areas.

Does anyone have any sense of the market for homes in the 1-1.5M range in these areas? It seems like there is a fair amount of inventory and pretty few transactions taking place above 1M based on zillow closings over the past 6 months. This would imply strong buyer's market, but it seems like each of the homes are so different that its hard to get an accurate comparable.

Seems like much of the luxury home market in this area was driven by the usual wall st / nyc crowd but maybe not as much as hamptons. Without a doubt there will be softening, but given the lack of comparables, how does one identify a well priced property?

Your money will go much farther if you cross the line into New York State, in northern Dutchess or southern Columbia counties.

The market is very, very slow in Roxbury/Washington/Bridgewater (we've owned in Roxbury for 15+ years, sold NYC co-op owned for 20 years at close top of market, and are renting now)and Litchfield Country prices have softened considerably. There are many listings in your price range, and it would be time well spent, with a good realtor, to see what's listed, and understand the character of each of the towns - they're each quite different.

in our neck of the woods, slow doesn't begin to describe. dead as a doornail would be an optimistic take. asking prices are still high, i.e. 2004 or so. don't know if no one makes offers or they're simply not considered but many properties have been sitting for over a year.

on the other hand, the high end stuff remarkably seems to keep moving along. not a lot of transactions, but still sales in the $3 million plus range.

to superquant: mileage alone is not really the issue as much as number of miles on two lane roads. we are approximatley 125 miles from GW bridge but probably get there in close to the time it takes to get to roxbury.

mpark: we spent the past couple weekends with a local realtor and looked at properties in kent, roxbury, washington, and sherman. Loved the rolling hills and landscape around kent and also the town itself. Same with washington. Saw a bunch of homes in 1-1.75M range and general feeling was that they were priced on the high side. Most have been on the market for 9-12+ months. Again, looking on zillow, the 1M+ closings in southern litchfield are few and far between in the past 6 months.

having lived in the area - around what timeframe would you say prices peaked (2005-2006?) and what would your expectation be for where they will be going?

columbia: will look into dutchess county and surrounding areas but taxes seem a lot higher than CT. Don't mind that if the house prices reflect that. We are looking for something within a 90min-120min (MAX) drive from downtown manhattan, where there are nice farms, landscape, and good food (hudson valley?). Agreed on country roads vs mileage.

btw: could you give some pointers on NY towns that I can look on realtor.com for listings? looking for areas that have an actual town green or small town center within 15-20min drive for groceries and amenities, scenic routes and properties. And again really want to keep it at 2 hours or less from downtown manhattan (which is what we were able to get to kent, ct in) or we will end up not going I fear ..

i would agree with your call on the peak. and, you are also correct, taxes much higher in nystate than ct or southern ma. but this is definitely factored in with lower pricing in ny. (fyi....many parts of columbia county have an automatic 2.5% of new sale price property tax reset which takes many people by surprise---in general, do extensive homework on property tax situation on resales particularly on properties that have not changed hands in a long time.) check out millbrook, clinton, rhinebeck area. generally east of the taconic (millbrook) is considered "right side of the tracks" and is much more expensive; rhinebeck has many advantages including extremely easy access to amtrak -- well worth taking a look at. suspect you will be pleasantly surprised by the difference in price vs. areas you have been looking in.

superquant- my guess is that prices peaked in the summer of 2006. I think prices are still high and from local newspaper info, the spread between ask and close is frequently 30% - or more - unless the property is realistically priced. I think prices are going to have to move lower for inventory to start moving, but I can't guess what that % will be. The difficulty, as you noted, is that comps are tough because of the considerable variety of offerings. Especially in Roxbury & Washingon, a large number of homes are owned by weekenders, many from the street, and with many out of work or minus significant bonuses, it might take even longer for inventory to clear due to lack of buyers.

FWIW, we rented in both Kent and Lakeville before buying in Roxbury. Lakeville was gorgeous, but even with a heavy foot, could never make it sub 2.25 hrs - and the stretch on Rt. 22 could be agonizing if we got stuck behind a slow-moving truck. Kent was nice, but the downtown area is very touristy on summer weekends and during leaf-peeping season, and certain parts are BUGGY!!! We're on UWS; w/ no traffic (eg, leaving mid-Friday afternoon) it takes 90min; on holiday weekends leaving at height of rush hour we've clocked an agonizing 2.75 hrs.

mpark: makes sense. that is good data to know. how do you describe roxbury? we drove through and it seemed like a nice area but no town. pros/cons? there is a property there on painter hill rd which we like but appears way over priced in terms of ask ..

also look on:

http://www.columbianortherndutchessmls.com/

for the new york side.

superquant - Roxbury is very quiet and very low key. The locals are mostly friendly and people are engaged in many volunteer efforts. The First Selectman (= mayor) Barbara Henry is a very smart, practical woman who keeps a tight control on the town's finances - our mill rate is flat this year despite an increase in the town's share of the Region 12 school budget. The town sends out a regular newsletter, so even as weekenders we feel like we know what's going on. There are active recreation and senior citizen programs. The town library is a treasure and the Land Trust is one of the oldest in the country. The Land Trust has been very aggressive in working to protect open land and family farms by soliciting local contributions and securing grants from both the state and federal governments - the result is permanently unspoiled vistas and wonderful preserves and marked hiking trails that are open to all. The "downtown" is minuscule; most people head to Woodbury, Washington or New Milford for grocery shopping, and Costco in Brookfield is a doable 20 minutes away. The Historical Society sponsors a Pickin' and Fiddlin' contest and a tractor pull each summer, and Maple Bank Farm has wonderful seasonal produce - they offer pick-your-own blueberries as well.

Painter Hill is considered very desirable (we're just off it). It's easy to get to any of the surrounding towns and for the most part, the houses are of good quality - you don't find many "shack-teaux" on Painter Hill :)

One more question: what about Pawling, NY? anyone familiar with that area?

Great discussion. You guys have inspired me to rent a beach place, so thanks.

I might do a week at a Hamptons house in September. I can't stomach the summer weekend thing... but it is beautiful when not crowded.

Wow...now they are going to raise the city tax for high income earners...was only a matter of time....

Run, don't walk to buy that place outside of the city...

And please don't listen to all these technical discussions about when you pay city tax and you don't...there is a reason rich people pay the least amount of taxes...

They have the CPA's...

But if you fell better about what will be 4% of your salary (See NY1 tonight), feel free...

garelj -- the tax situation in nyc is dreadful and getting worse. We pay the max while the owner of the hedge fund who's worth several hundred mil (or was last yr), only pays 15%. That's a different topic and a sore spot for everyone I'm sure. Looking for a place in nystate might not help us so much, it's still ny. To escape taxes we have to move out of a high-tax state. Go south. Opening your own biz would also help, done that and the tax benefits were beautiful.

Love aboutready's comment "having a country home is a pain in the ass, and a joy for the soul."

Incidentally, has anyone looked south of nyc for a country house? Somewhere b/w nyc and Baltimore? We haven't looked and the traffic might not be worth it. Just curious.

I have a friend from Philadelphia who always raved about "the Jersey shore" but somehow I was never overly impressed. Certainly cheaper than the Hamptons , though, I'd say.