Assault at 63 Wall Street

As compared to...where?

oh please...thats nothing. what a weak fight. the best part were the residents who just walked by

rufie is back!!!!

Isn't the doorman there to help you in these situations? Isn't he supposed to provide security?

the incompetent doorman didn't call the cops because the assailant lives in the building. the lawyer is suing both the culprit and 63 wall street.

i've always known that those fidi rentals are big pieces of crap, but this story takes the cake.

I don't think it is any more racist than any other place in this world. Try going to mid America where Sarah Palin calls the real America.

It just makes me mad looking at the doorman keeping his cool watching them struggle. I hope they fire this dude. Isn't it HIS job not to let strangers into the building? Reminds me of my old building few years ago. The doormen kept on letting the strangers in, letting them know exactly where people live. I mean seriously, if no one answered the intercon, they opened the door for the visitors, who otherwise would not be able to go in, telling them to try knocking on the door directly as they might have not heard the intercon???! I had a crazy person (stalker!) waiting in front of my door when I came home from work one day. Asked how did that person knew where I live? Said, the front doorman told the stalker the exact apartment number. FYI, I lived in Kips Bay Court (27th - 28th Street, 2nd Avenue) and moved soon after because of repeated incidents like this. They have a group of stupid security guards, who doesn't know how to even use the intercon sitting on the front desk. I would get buzzed for my neighbor's visitors ALL THE TIME. I complained exactly 9 times and got no response before I moved out.

the level of doormen service in most buildings here in manhattan is dismally low. i have a friend who lives in kips bay court, and he used to make similar complaints all the time. you would think paying $3k/month for a 1-bedroom, the buildings could hire competent doormen.

jjun, if you read the text below the fight, the drunk guy who started the fight actually lived in the building.

didn't see that. they lived in the same building? I thought the drunk dude just followed him to his building. Then I guess it makes the story a little different. Too bad the drunk picked on an attorney, naturally he's going sue the shirts off everyone.

really? what about African american men, or Latinos?? my vote is for Afican american woman - the most discriminated.

I think the only discrimnation Asian american men get is from women. lol.

I'm just grateful NYC doesn't share the kind of out-of-control intractable violence that see in Chicago.

jjun, what do you mean, discrimination from women?

This is horrific -- terrible-- this is like the mta workers who made a call but did not come to the assist of a young woman who was attacked and RAPED on the subway. The COurt ruled that the workers fulfilled their fiduciary duty by making the call. No duty (albeit a moral one!) to assist.

Kitty Genovese

it was a joke. My gradschool roommate (who was Asian) showed me a funny youtube clip one time that asks why you rarely see Asian dudes dating white chicks whereas White dudes always gets the Asian chicks..implying Asian guys are not too popular among white women. the explanation was that they are more into videogames/more geeky than white/blacks etc. something like that. It's a funny youtube click made by an Asian student. And I didn't mean to offend anyone by the way. Just a joke.

At least NYC doesn't have the out of control crime problem that Chicago does. Not to mention the brain drain that Chicago is experiencing as young, professionals move out in droves to higher income earning areas like NYC, San Francisco, San Jose, Boston. Chicago is on pace to be the New Detroit.

And ... he's baaaaaack!

jjun4733, it's a long-standing tradition on SE to ignore posts from quantum. nyc10022, do you have any explanation to offer?

THIS is by far the BEST thread of July 22, 2009. Violence in NYC? LMAO. In the 80's every single grammar school friend in my nabe carried a butterfly knife. Literally was about "protection."

And yes the "neighbors" who ho-hum walked by this fight is hilarious! But i once saw a dead body in 55th and 8th ave.. .where I swear 50% of NYCers looked and then kept walking... 87' or 88'... a nut job ran out from a 3rd floor apt into 8th ave and was hit by a city bus.... the FDNY came and hosed the crap down the sewer... the big pieces the morgue van took away.... ahhhhhh the good ole days. I WILL NEVER FORGET THE stench... I don't know how these soldiers in Iraq deal with the smell, it never leaves you......

It's not the job of the doorman to physically put himself in the middle of a fight. Yes, it's oddly Monty Python-esque to see the doorman and passers calmly going about their business and stepping over the two idiots flailing around on the floor, but clearly the doorman called the cops (who are seen arriving at the end of the video). He is not required to do more.

squid.. how about if it was a girl, that was being attacked? or an old lady? I'm just saying... a truth/morality doesn't change b/c the players involved are different..... :)

w67th--it isn't a question of morality. The doorman is not a cop, nor is he a body-guard (in this case, it's just some slightly built, upper-middle-aged dude who likely couldn't fight off an attacker even if he tried).

The doorman's not required to put himself in physical danger for his job. He can do so if he chooses, but he should not be chastised for choosing not to do so. Same would hold true for scenarios like the ones you describe above.

no matter how you look at it, this doorman is a sorry excuse. I don't think this doorman would have done anything different evenif it was a fight between a thief and a tenant. He doesn't even make an effort to stop the fight. He is just looking at it as if it's an everyday affair.

Specifically what do you expect the 64-year-old doorman to do? Give the attacker a wedgie? He called the cops as soon as it started, and he waited for them to arrive.

i would have opted to kick both thier a$$es

It doesn't come down to one's duty as a doorman, but as a human being. He is just a cowardly selfish man, who would care less for other people's plight.

64 year old? where did that come from?

Agreed, Alan. He's not a cop, not a bouncer, not a security guard. He's not expected to be a hero, just to do his job, which, in this case, is to call the authorities.

true that.. .squid...

lol well I'm white and all I see is Asians. I went to MIT for undergrad and I would say 70% were Asians. I live close to Korea town in midtown right now, all I see is Asians, and I worked at Nomura Securities downtown at one time, Asians are not invisible where I live. I live in NYC.

MIT =math Harvard

>>It doesn't come down to one's duty as a doorman, but as a human being. He is just a cowardly selfish man, who would care less for other people's plight.<<

Oh come on, seriously dude? How do you know this man is even physically capable of involving himself in a knock-down, drag-out fight? Why should he risk his own safety by jumping into a wrestling match between a couple of younger guys, one of whom is far bigger than he and the other of whom is clearly a trained fighter?

If this doorman were my father I certainly wouldn't want him putting himself in harm's way over some drunken brawl between two tenants.

There's a substantive thread (of sorts) here. Let's drop the racism.

I second Kyle's motion to DROP THE FRICKIN' RACISM.

They sure have rufie on a very short leash these days -- comment gone!

At least the quantum one. I forgot that DivineComedy is also rufie.

Oddly literary handle for that imbecile. It was probably required reading in his community college / trade school.

Squid, just based on security cam it looks like he is a young healthy man. If he was a criple old man, I apologize, but Squid and w67thstreet, man, all I can say is that your true character shows.

Yes, if I was there, I would have tried to break up the fight evenif I wasn't a doorman. Have done so many times with my friends, at bars few times with strangers. Would have done anything but just stand there and watch a drunken man go crazy! Are you both men by the way? if you are women, understandable, but if not and to say those words with such pride, really?

And (yes, my fourth post in a row!) wouldn't you know he lurks at a site offering "mma commentary for the discriminating meathead". I wonder if he ever found that dream condo in an area near Boystown.

junie... you mistake accepting another's morality with parroting that person's actions. At my age and my ground and pound skillz... i'd be all over the drunken dude... but I can't put myself into a 50yo doorman's body. I can see both sides... but personally I would've put myself between these guys, but I also told my wife don't buy NYC RE when every dipshit was buying.... so whatever that means :)

well whatever, don't know for sure what really went on so to debate it here on SE is meaningless, and it's not as if I don't see your point, but I must say, I boiled with anger when I saw that doorman watching the fight indifferntly from behind the desk as if he was watching tv. sheez.

jjun, we'll have to agree to disagree on the apparent age of the doorman--he looks older to me.

To answer your question, I am a woman (yep, you read that correctly--squid's a chick). And this chick has seen (and been involved in) her fair share of bar and street brawls, harassments, and other assorted shenanigans involving drunken fools and sundry louts that are an unfortunate part of the mosaic that makes up our fair city.

My views on this have always been the same--I would never expect any private citizen to jump in to help me in a bad situation if by doing so he put his (or her) own safety at risk.

squidie.. my bad about the brawl outside Prohibition. me, I like happy drunks....

well Ms squid, as I would advice any of my female relative/friends, you are smart not to get involved in any physical fight, especially when there are two men involved. And yes, if there were knife, broken beer bottle, guns involved I would advice otherwise to anyone. But this Asian dude was dealing with a drunken man, who followed him from the store shouting insulting words. He was clearly trying to subdue this drunk, with difficulty and this insensitive doorman was looking at all of this as if it was two flies mating in the sky. I cannot understand how simply people say, it is none of my business.

JohnAnthony = DivineComedy = quantum = rufus = psychocrackerboy
Did I miss any? Probably.

He has no "buddies", only fellow inpatients.

alanhart, funny. he and his insiders.

The doorman looked nonchalant on the video and that may be his greatest sin. Notwithstanding victim's post that doorman 'refused' to call police, the cops were there inside of 3 minutes which is pretty damn good for an assault in progress. So the doorman obviously did, in fact, call the cops.

As for getting involved, some people may, some may not. Some fight back during a mugging, some give over their wallets. All I can say is when you don't know if someone is armed or has a weapon (blade or firearm) stashed of him, you are really risking it by diving in. You could inadvertently escalate things and cause the perp to draw the weapon. You also don't know if he is on drugs or mentally ill which adds to the potential risk of getting involved. And while not the case here, a classic and potentially deadly mistake is to miss the fact that the perp has an accomplice nearby. A major part of police training is defending against a potential second or third perp lurking about when the police are intervening.

If the struggle seems to be a wrestling match with minor injuries, better to call the cops and attempt to get them to the scene asap. If the victim were being seriously injured/raped/etc, then the calculus changes because the exigency changes.

psychocrackerboy can confirm this with certainty: it's my understanding that 7-11 and/or Circle K expressly forbids its employees from intervening in a robbery (which of course happens all the time at 3AM in crack country, such as for example for instance let's say Hammond, Indiana).

Liability. No upside except chump change.

fire the doorman then, what is he there for? maintenance costs will be lower (on the flip side)

What a boring video. Just wrestling around. Considering the neighborhood and building, the concierge (he's not a doorman) isn't seeing his first fight.

What is a doorman good for? He's not a warrior or your bodyguard. That's a dopey thing to suggest. He's there to sign for your dry cleaning and packages, help you with the uh... door. Give your guests keys, help you to/from your car with luggage, and call 911 if something requires the police. Doorman are not, and never have been a building's private militia. Anyone suggesting this guy get involved out of necessity and as part of his duties actually have a doorman they think would see it the same way? Surely some might, but it is not a requirement IMO. I wouldn't expect it. Just that they get me the police if someone were wrestling with me.

Agreed that doorman has done what he's supposed to do.

OK, maybe the doorman/concierge should not be expected to put himself in harm's way, but come on. He acted detached from the situation. Is this acceptable behavior from someone who is supposed to at least provide a sense of safety in a building?

yeah, so who cares if there are people dying in Africs, young girls getting sold in sex trafficing, a child getting bullied at school, it's not required of me to do anything in my job description, who give a damn. I'll call the philanthropists, police, teachers, to do their job. Son, we should just sit and watch, because simply it is none of our business. You shouldn't be a fool to waste your money, time and effort on something that is not your business. no no, son, don't go near that kid getting bullied. I called 911. let that kid just get hurt, it's none of our business.

good lesson to teach your kids. the coldness in your hearts really surprise me. Maybe your daddys told you to just stand still and watch when there is someone in trouble, but my brothers and I was told to be a man and help out when people are in peril.

I just watched this video again with my girlfriend, and this doorman is shuffling papers and cleaning his desk while this man is wrestling this drunk man. It just surprises me that all of you see nothing wrong with this picture.

It looks as if the victim (no kid) settled his negligence case against the building. Assuming he's the Steven Kenny who sued RBNB, owner of 63 Wall St. Let's hope he got enough to replace the broken tooth.

The initial conversation between the assailant and the purported victim (I wasn't there) may have started as a race issue. For those who choose to post their "whites prefer Asians" or "Asians prefer whites" or whatever, think what you will. I think it's off topic and offensive. The video clearly shows the doorman calling someone when the first punch was thrown. Based on the arrival time of the police, it probably was the police that he called. I would have jumped in, but you don't know what the rules are for doormen. Or if they were influenced by some other similar incident that turned out bad.
jjun4733 - I hear you. Again, it's not what I would have done regardless of the rules. It would be an automatic response to try to break it up (and, like Squid, I'm a woman). But you don't know this persons situation.

This is really making me rethink if doorman buildings are worth the extra money. I thought they did more than just accept your deliveries.

No, he doesn't insert himself between you should you fight with another resident in the lobby. He doesn't act as kindergarten teacher.

maybe the two guys that walk in do nothing because the doorman has set the standard of ambivalence. so, when they walk in there is a diffusion of responsibility i.e. kitty genovese.

how about the doorman telling the two guys who walk in that it would be 4 against 1, if they wanted to help this guy? i think this is a sad testament to how new yorkers become desensitized to everything and feel no sense of communal responsibility from picking up trash to helping out a neighbor. these people all lived (worked in the doorman's case) in the same building. i would like to think that anyone who saw a neighbor being assaulted would do something. i'm not saying that the doorman needed to jump into the altercation, but he could have tried to get help for him (i'm sure the building had other people on duty) or at least when the two other guys came in, he could have suggested that they all help him. there is something between jumping into the fight and ignoring it all together. i find this very disturbing.

what if this was a woman being raped? or a child being kidnapped? would this be more unacceptable? it shouldn't be. this is a racially motivated hate crime.

"My views on this have always been the same--I would never expect any private citizen to jump in to help me in a bad situation if by doing so he put his (or her) own safety at risk."

Your words really struck me before, Squid. This indeed will be a sad day, if everyone thinks as you do. Hopefully there will be one person among few watching, jumping in to help you when you are getting your teeth knocked out by a drunken bit**. because the chances are the police will not arrive before you are all cut and bruised up.

This discussion has turned into a debate on whether or not the doorman should have put himself in harms way. That's not the issue, is it? It appears the doorman initially refused to call the police because he knew the attacker, who also lived in the building. If that's the case he fails as a good samaritan and probably at his job.

NWT: kindergarten teacher breaking up two five year olds and a doorman coming to the aid of a smaller man being attacked by a larger man... not quite the same thing. Not that the smaller guy needed any help. What you find a boring wrestling match is something else entirely. Smaller guy who's skilled in boxing decides to take the fight to the ground. Ends up on the bottom. From there he works methodically going from choke hold attempt to choke hold attempt to set up of a sweep so he can get on top. Gets the sweep. Goes for another choke. Gives up the choke and goes for wrist control. They get lost behind the counter but you see the smaller guy sitting up so he's clearly in a dominant position and then it looks like he ends up in a north/south position. Had the police not shown up he could have easily put his attacker to sleep. Brazilian jiu jitsu 101.

I don't think the law is in favor of good samaritans. What if the doorman had stepped in to help the Korean guy, then in the ensuing brawl, someone had gotten knocked out or killed. Now he's an accomplice to murder. It's not like he was some young boxer dude - he was an old man who probably could have easily been hurt stepping in. He did the right thing by calling the cops to let them deal with it.

what's more sad about this "racially motivated hate crime" is that the "drunk fool" is actually indian, another minority.

If you see the asian guy's comments on youtube it turns out the clip is edited down from about 20 minutes. For the first 5 he's asking the doorman to call the police but the doorman refuses. Then he's sitting on top of the guy for 15 minutes until the police arrive...

"For the first 5 he's asking the doorman to call the police but the doorman refuses."

considering that, i now think that the doorman is the lowest form of life. he not only doesn't help, but he actually makes the situation escalate into violence because of his inaction.

he embodies everything wrong with new york and our society as a whole.

as someone who was threatened by a group of drunken frat guys one night in Chelsea in the mid-80s, and rescued by some guys in the neighborhood i knew only minimally (hello and how's it going (my rescuers were hispanic, btw, not that it matters)), i can't help but wonder what would have happened to me if those guys had just decided i wasn't worth the risk.

OTNYC, i'm fairly certain you're incorrect about the law, but i'm not well versed in criminal. i'll ask the hubby later.

That was a very responsible and restrained use of martial arts, specifically Brazilian jiujitsu, by the Asian guy. I can tell that he is skilled enough to have easily pummeled, choked unconscious, dislocate a large joint, or broken the limb of his assailant if he had chosen to do so. The reason why those who subsequently entered just walked by without being alarmed is because the guy had such control over his assailant that it did not appear to be a dangerous situation. Even though the guy eventually controlled the situation as a result of his grappling skills, there was a point when the assailant was on top and the doorman could've intervened the give the guy a hand. I'm of the opinion that if security is supposed to be one of the reasons a doorman is on duty, that he should be able to step up if a "security situation" arises. Now I know a doorman is not a bouncer, but still in this situation, the doorman appears to be able-body and ample-sized and could've at least stepped over just to confirm that the guy was OK and asked if he needed some help. No tip for that doorman ever.

Please, this is a stupid topic.....why in the world would a doorman step into a fight to break it up.....they are not paid to do that.....he called the police and that is what he should do in this situation......

How many stories have you read about people getting killed or stabbed trying to break-up a fight......these are two grown men.....the person could have walked away from the guy also.....he chose not to and they got into it......

The doorman called the police end of story.

Two States Legalize Guns in Bars

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/23/two-states-legalize-guns-in-bars/?hp

"Please, this is a stupid topic.....why in the world would a doorman step into a fight to break it up".

Not suggesting that one should always throw oneself at everyone's defense, but man, atleast care enough to wonder what we can do to helpout when someone is in trouble. How could you defend this person's indifference? What enrages me is to see that people are this distant.

"How many stories have you read about people getting killed or stabbed trying to break-up a fight..."

yes, but this world would be a worst place if we were all heartless and only knew to look after oneself as you do. There are untold stories of heros everyday, who cares enough to step in and help.
Assaulted shop owners rescued by passer-by
http://www.thedailyherald.com/news/daily/m031/rescuem031.html

"Two States Legalize Guns in Bars"
it's funny how people think we are victims to our own time, when we are the ones who make our laws and realities. If we chose to make it our norm to sniff at someone's plight and tell our children to only look after themselves, indeed, that's what it will be. But looking at many comments in this site, it looks like we are already living in an indifferent society.

Q. How many drunk Wall Street bigots does it take to change a light bulb?
A. What's a light bulb?

I can never get enough of that drunk Wall Street bigots joke!

"What a boring video. Just wrestling around. Considering the neighborhood and building, the concierge (he's not a doorman) isn't seeing his first fight."

THANK YOU.

Proof positive that white trash comes in all shapes and sizes, including wearing Armani suits Breitling watches, and living in Manhattan's Financial District.

who gives a crap... that fight is over already. The QUESTION is, will your doorman help you out when a drunken schmuck throws racial/sexual/improper insults at you. So this afternoon, I plan to show all the doorman the youtube video and ask them what, they'd do. their x-mas bonus will depend on their answer...... :)

i can never get enough guns in bars.

This is sort of a dumb discussion. The alleged victim was pummelling his alleged attacker. On whose behalf should the doorman have intervented? Logically, one might have thought he would intervene on behalf of the guy getting his but kicked. What if he began pummelling the self-proclaimed victim, who now is suing him? Then where would he be?

Intervening when victim and agressor is obvious is one thing, this is another.

nyc_sport - that is the dumbest thing i've ever heard.

let's see how could he have determined who the attacker was?

"he..followed me into my apartment building...I tried to get the doorman to call the police...the drunk guy then came at me again and hit me in the mouth, breaking one of my front teeth off, and called me a chink."

i don't think we need perry mason to figure this one out.

ILoveMuayThai: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Maine_%28ACR-1%29#False_flag_conspiracy_hypothesis

he was a patsy?