Looking for a good buyers broker

I probably was not clear. If someone has had a positive experience with a broker, please let me know who you would recommend.

I would love to email you details of some good reputable and honest buyer brokers.
Please provide your email address and I will email you their contacts.

nycbuyer1, I have my own firm, was the President of my UWS brownstone co-op for several years, and frequently represent buyers. Would welcome the opportunity to work with you. Feel free to call me on my cell at 917-495-7632.

nycbuyer1 buyers broker is not going to do the package for you. The seller's broker is just as interested in closing the deal as the buyer's broker and will advise on this matter to your benefit. I don't think you need another mouth to feed. Good luck.

Actually, If you have a buyers broker, it is indeed this brokers responsibility to complete the co-op package and work through the process with you. I am a recognized broker and have done many board packages. I assure you it's a bit of a daunting process but it is something we put a lot of work and care into and strive for perfection here. With this said, if you choose not to use a buyers agent, the seller's agent will then be representing both buyer and seller. As such, they will work with you on the board package in the same manner. One important consideration, a selling broker's fiduciary duty is always to their seller. That's why many buyer's do prefer to have their own representaion. Feel free to contact me or read about me at www.corcoran.com/jkay

As for Bela's comment about another mouth to feed - well if you don't have your own broker then the seller pays the entire commission to their own agent. If you do have a buyer's agent then the brokers split the commission

mrjknyc: Thank you for an informative post, and welcome to Streeteasy. I think it's worth clarifying a few points you made above.

"...if you choose not to use a buyers agent, the seller's agent will then be representing both buyer and seller."
This is true ONLY if all parties agree to dual agency, a rare arrangement in New York. Otherwise, the seller's agent represents only the seller. The seller's agent might assist with preparation of the buyer's Board package, but will do so only to further the seller's objective of closing the sale, and could even use the information obtained during this process to the buyer's detriment.

"...a selling broker's fiduciary duty is always to their seller."
This time, you got the law right, but the terminology wrong. The selling broker - not to be confused with the SELLER'S broker (a.k.a. listing agent) - is the one who brings the buyer to the deal. The selling broker may represent the buyer, or may be a sub-agent of the listing agent, depending on circumstances and written or implied contracts. These distinctions may seem like arcane semantics, but to a buyer who wants to know who's working for whom, the roles matter a lot.

"As for Bela's comment about another mouth to feed - well if you don't have your own broker then the seller pays the entire commission to their own agent. If you do have a buyer's agent then the brokers split the commission"
All true, but also misleading. Bela is self-evidently right: another broker means another mouth to feed. Eliminating that mouth can lead to different outcomes, depending on the skill and relative bargaining power of the remaining players. Although it's overly simplistic to assert that a buyer can save 3% by going without representation, it's equally facile to assert that representation is effectively "free" because the listing agent will inevitably pocket the extra 3% on a deal with no co-brokerage.

West81st, can you give us an example of how the sellers agent can use info obtained during the package preperation to hurt the buyer. nycbuyer1 doesn't say where he is in the buying process. I'm assuming the contract has been signed and he's now putting together all the financial docs and letters of recommendations for the coop package. How can the sellers agent cause any harm at this point?

Jason: just busting your chops, but "Outside of work, his favorite pastimes are following the stock and real estate markets." ????

MeMe: I wasn't thinking of a specific risk, and I didn't mean to make a big deal of it. One scenario is that the deal falls through (for whatever reason) and you wind up with a p*ssed-off broker who knows everything about you and owes you no allegiance.

I have just submittted an offer. I initially thought I could do without a broker. Searching for and viewing apartments is easy. So is finding historical pricing data. However, as I get closer to a deal, I am starting to think that I may want someone to do some of the work for me. Thanks for the feedback.

Nycbuyer1, sorry I didn't see this post (in addition to working in real estate, I write and speak about it, and I was just in San Francisco doing a panel).

The "point" at which you pick your agent, according to the Department of State, is the point at which you submit an offer. If you have already done that, you have basically waived your right to representation by a buyer's broker on this particular property.

There may be firms who would subcontract working on a package for you for a flat fee -- and if we were earlier in the process I'd pitch you to do that, because I'm good at packages -- but I think at this point you may have waived that fee being picked up as part of the seller's commission.

I'd be interested in hearing from other agents on this.

ali r.
Ask the Agent at CBS Moneywatch.com: bit.ly/12afCB

I have bought a number of coops with and without brokers. I don't think they do anything with the board package?! The buyer ultimately has to do the leg work and compliation. I guess if you hate photocopying and putting papers in a binder, you might need help but ... that's really all they can do! I always write my own cover letter - no one knows my financials bettet than I do.

Maybe I just had shitty brokers (hence I don't use them anymore) if any brokers want to weigh in on exactly what value you add to the board package, I'd love to learn.

nycbuyer1, I have a lovely broker who sold for me and worked with me on buying. she is VERY diligent. You can e-mail me directly if you want at smacstein@gmail.com.

Village, I do the same things any coach would do -- go over with the
buyers who their recommenders should be; suggest the form of the rec
letters; edit the letters for typos (which occur shockingly often); go
over the asset picture and rebalance the assets as necessary; help
them draft the cover letter ... and then dress them and coach them
for the board interview.

We generally follow the letter of the application, but I am also there
to build a bridge to the board/managing agent if an applicant doesn't
want to submit a piece of information for privacy reasons, or wants to
submit different/extra info to make their case.

ali r.
ali [at] dgneary [dot] com

over the years I have prepared many coop packages for buyers. It is astonishing how confused very intelligent people get preparing their financial statements and getting together the many forms of substantiation that are needed. Often i have found assets that the buyers completely forgot or ignored that helped them to pass their interview. Usually as most brokers I have been working with the buyer for some time, however, occaissionaly, for a fee a buyer or seller has asked my advise to help them in preperation of the package. once you have already negotiated your price directly with the sellers broker it is a little late to ask that broker to split their commission. However, you can always pay another broker a consulting fee to help you if you are finding the process daunting and time consuming.

Hey – if there are people willing to pay for these things then more power to the people willing to make money off of them. I can’t imagine not knowing my own financial situation or having typos in any letter – much less a reference letter. If someone wants to pay for this, fine. I always hate it when brokers pretend that there is some smokescreen that only they can see through … when the smoke clears, its all pretty simple. As long as everyone is upfront, I don’t care who pays for what and who charges for what. It is all a matter of choice.

Village, you need an apostrophe in "its" -- "when the smoke clears, it's all pretty simple."

I know you are just typing on the Internet, but you would be shocked at the typos I see coming from the desks of fairly important people with fairly fancy jobs.

As to the financial situation -- well, I have a really good handle on my financial situation, but I don't prepare my own taxes. For many of my clients outsourcing a co-op package is a parallel situation -- it's a task they COULD perform, but they'd prefer not to.

ali r.

Nice catch, Ali!

I'm working with a buyer on a co-op purchase right now (board interview complete, just scheduling the closing). My buyer has a business manager who did a ton of the heavy lifting vis a vis the board package - which made my job much easier. So yes, much of what I contributed at that point in the process was photocopying and messengering services. Instead, my services involved finding the apartment and advising re pricing, then placing the offer (nycbuyer1 has this well in hand), helping locate an attorney and mortgage lender, and shepherding the (in this case very fragile) deal to its conclusion. My buyer has complicated credit and income issues that needed to be framed properly during the offer and acceptance phase. I'm not sure the listing agent would have seen him as the sure bet he is if I hadn't understood how to tell his story. We had to find a new lender after a glitch showed up in his credit report - causing rate lock issues for himself and the seller. But my buyer and his business managers could have submitted the package without me.

What I'm saying is - I never know, at the outset, how any deal is going to shake out. You're on the bus or off the bus. And Village is right - you get to choose who's on the bus with you. I feel like maybe nycbuyer1's bus has already left the station.

Tina
(Brooklyn broker)

I totally get it - I could work out on my own but I choose not to, so I pay a trainer. I am good at buying/selling real estate so I do it without a broker. Other people may make different decisions.

I would never criticize anyone for making their own decisions with their money. I resent that brokers continually do exactly this to FSBOs.

I can't work out on my own AND I don't use a trainer. But I don't criticize FSBOs either.
Tina
(Brooklyn broker)

Thanks for all of your feedback. I am pretty close to doing this deal. Of course, we are still in negotiation and that can always break down. At this point, if we do not reach an agreement on price, I will engage a broker to do the searchings, arrange efficient appointments, and ultimately deal with the package. I am capable of putting together a financial statement. However, I have found that even trading phone calls to set up appointments is time consuming and a distraction from my day job which pays the bills.

"The "point" at which you pick your agent, according to the Department of State, is the point at which you submit an offer. If you have already done that, you have basically waived your right to representation by a buyer's broker on this particular property."

Ali,
Are you sure about that? That was not my understanding.

30yrs, it's what Gil has always told me ... when do you think the point of choice would be otherwise?

ali r.

I would think a buyer broker could be introduced at any time up to the point of contract execution by all parties...if the seller has a problem with that, all he has to do is refuse the contract....and since when does a listing agent who agrees to REBNY rules have the unilateral right to object to a co-broke?

Anyone have the REBNY bylaws? or anyone here an attorney? Surely someone must know the legal definition regarding when a buyer's broker can be introduced into a deal.

I emailed to see a place for the first time (thru NYTimes.com) and when I wanted to bring a buyer's broker with me, the broker/owner was quite squiffy about it. I told him, okay, I'll look at it on my own. But if I adore the place, I can bring the bb back to do the offer and all negotiating and paperwork?

As anyone here knows, I don't use buyers brokers. However, if I emailed to see a place and the listing broker was a jerk about my wanting to involve a buyers broker, I would damn well make sure he split his commission with someone!

As a REBNY member, I have the REBNY bylaws -- but trade courtesy is not what governs here, this is a matter of state law.

@Trinityparent, you ABSOLUTELY have the right to bring your own broker in past first contact -- whether or not you mentioned you had one, doesn't matter. Whether you've gone to see the place three times, doesn't matter. You can put in your offer through anyone you want, and our firm is certainly available if you need us.

The other question that 30yrs and I are debating is whether you can bring in your own broker POST-offer. I don't think so, because I think it's a case of a state regulation about "procuring cause," and once there has been an offer, the other broker can argue that he has already established himself as the procuring cause -- but I admittedly don't have the reg in front of me.

And 30Years is not in the office, so I can't make him look it up.

Kylewest? you around? Any attorneys?

ali r.
ali [at] dgneary [dot] com
Member, Real Estate Board of New York and Manhattan Association of Realtors

nycbuyer1 - you can call Michael Daus from Barak Realty. I have worked with him in the past and the experience was great.

212-584-3768
mdaus@barakny.com

Good luck.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/realty-collective-brooklyn
www.realtycollective.com

"The other question that 30yrs and I are debating is whether you can bring in your own broker POST-offer. I don't think so, because I think it's a case of a state regulation about "procuring cause," and once there has been an offer, the other broker can argue that he has already established himself as the procuring cause -- but I admittedly don't have the reg in front of me."

I hate to differ with the author of a book that I just read and enjoyed but there is no "state regulation" regarding procuring cause. Procuring cause is a concept in real estate case law and does not appear in any regulation that I'm aware of. And any listing broker who waived around "procuring cause" as the reason to deny/exclude a buyer broker that the purchaser produced post offer but pre-contract would have to deal with the buyer broker claiming that she/he had been working behind the scene for years with the buyer.

But 30 year is still not weighing in here.....so I stand ready for correction.

The reluctance of some Listing Agents to "letting" a buyer be represented by another agent is a potential minefield for many, many Manhattan agents and firms. To make a very long story a little shorter, the "procuring cause" issue governs Who Gets Paid (as between 2 agents 'involved' in a deal), just like the REBNY rules focus on Who Gets Paid (as well as the related question of How Firms "Cooperate"). But the question of whether a buyer *can* be represented by a separate agent (and when) is a matter of NYS law. The minefield is filled with NYS disclosure and Agency principles that many many Manhattan agents ignore (or don't know).

As I understand it, for an agent **already representing the seller** to assert entitlement to the whole fee requires that agent to assert that s/he *also* "represents" the buyer. While it is *possible* for that to be done without violating NYS law, the only legal way to do it involves both sellr and buyer consenting to the same agent representing them. Which is not likely to occur (a) because it generally should be done in writing, and (b) few agents even know enough to make appropriate disclosures.

The minefield again: if an agent **already representing the seller** gives the buyer the impression that s/he *also* "represents" the buyer but has not gotten both sides' actual consent, that agent has violated a fiduciary duty to at least one party (probably both). I believe some major firm lost a VERY large commission check couple of years ago because the seller's closing attorney heard the buyer say something at closing about the agent *also* representing the buyer; the seller's lawyer asked the agent to provide a document showing consent to such an arrangement and, because no such document existed, refused to deliver the commission check.

As I said, this is a long (complex) story. Any buyer who wants to be separately represented can (and should) have his/her agent's manager fight for that with the selling firm's manager if necessary. The fact that Manhattan agents fight like crazy to double-end the commission does NOT mean this practice is legal.

I believe that the buyer agent can appear at *any* time before contract is signed (and *certainly* when an offer is made), but you may have to fight a bit to get what is right. And some REBNY firm managers may not even be willing to make the fight.

"I believe that the buyer agent can appear at *any* time before contract is signed (and *certainly* when an offer is made), but you may have to fight a bit to get what is right. And some REBNY firm managers may not even be willing to make the fight."

I agree with this. As far as I know, a buyer has the right to representation. PERIOD. They don't waive that right at any time that the representation can be real (although I guess you could claim that even after contract signing, the "aid preparing the sales package" could be considered "real" representation.

Think of it this way: you are a buyer. You see a place you like and make an offer thru the broker you saw it with. It quickly becomes obvious to you that this person is not capable of properly representing you in the negotiations. Do you think the AG is going to tell you you have to stick with a broker who you deal is not representing your interests properly because you made your first offer thru them? I don't.

Secondly, the Dept of State has made it really clear that they really, really want to see a buyer's rep and a seller's rep on every transaction and really, really aren't thrilled with "dual agency" deals. As such, I see them wanting the buyer to be able to get adequate representation any damn time they feel like it.

mjsalisb, thanks SO MUCH for the compliment! That book is like my child!

ali
Diary of a Real Estate Rookie: http://tinyurl.com/2ag28z

Did anybody suggest you find someone that really specializes in the neighborhood you are looking into? Ali is a downtown broker, and she seems to be very good.

This is a bit of post-hijack, but it is normal for the broker who shows the buyer around to consider themselves the "seller's broker" so that their loyalty is to seller? I am looking to buy a house on LI and the broker I am using to find me houses wants me to sign contract (which I did) saying that she represents the seller. This includes places where the seller has their own broker. She said that is how it is done in this particular town. Was I totally nuts for signing the contract? This is my first time buying property and I don't know what is the norm. How can she owe me loyalty to negotiate for my best interests if she has a contract saying she represents the buyer. Thanks!

Things are still a bit in flux. It used to be exactly like that everywhere including Manhattan, except few buyers ever signed contracts with agencies to represent them. In fact, are you sure you are being asked to sign a "contract" and not just a "disclosure form"?

I have found someone that I feel comfortable working with. For the apartment I put on offer on (but does seem to be going anywhere) I am not going to bring him in. He actually said that it would be wrong at this point. However, for future apts. I am going to work with him.

"mjsalisb, thanks SO MUCH for the compliment! That book is like my child!"

De nada, Ali...I passed my copy along the other day to a broker/friend we've worked with for years here on Nantucket for summer rentals...so you're "child" is traveling!

MJS...at the beach...