Riverwalk Court. I love it.

Isn't Riverwalk in San Antonio?

"The building is just a American Dream come true thing."

Thanks, realtor, but fix your American. Buy a consonant: a n.

I am not american , that's why i dont' trust dollar. Dollar is toast. I aslo believe we haven't landed on the bottom. I explained already I wanted to save my savings. I dont need those papers, colored green.
Only last comment here. I missed huge run up on stockmarket becuase I listened to the loosers like you. I could've already retired.

that was just dumb. and how self-serving of you to blame your decision on others. but following up on your error in the stock market with a purchase on Roosevelt Island might not have been the best path to follow.

"irregardless", enjoy your new home.

looser AR.

Yeah , yeah, yeah, sit and wait folks , sit and wait. Everything is under control.
Fed will rob you to the last dime . Through the dollar devaluation and taxes.
Inflation is immenent.
Sit and wait, folks. Life just will pass by under your nose. Sit and wait. Always be aboutready.
One above has been aboutready for many years now. Be aboutready folks, sit and wait.

P.S. On my floor all apartments moved-in , but one - 3bed. Check with admin if I am a realtor, he can see my IP. That's it no more comments from me.

keep up. you're wrong. i'm notready, just too lazy to change the name.

wages are indeed spiraling out of control. good move. be very afraid of inflation.

My Fav:
'I missed huge run up on stockmarket becuase I listened to the loosers like you. I could've already retired'
The check's in the mail
The Sun was in my eyes
I won't #@* in your m.....

Shoulda Woulda Coulda

AR, you don't seem "loose," at all.

Keremetski, I am happy that you are very excited about your purchase. Wish you the best.
I lived on RI and wasn't too happy about it. I was thinking of buying but opted to rent first and I am glad i did. After living there for one year, I figured that buying on RI I would be facing at least the following 3 problems: 1) The commute into Manhattan is terrible. It is very difficult communting between the island and Manhattan in the morning - You really have to wait for 3 or more subway or cable cars to go through before you get on. Remember the island is the last stop before you enter Manhattan and the subway is normally packed by the time it reaches RI, 2) Land lease. You have around 60 yrs left on the lease and then what? uncertainty brings decreases in property values and that is why your unit will not appreciate much in value , and 3) No offence, but the island is way overpopulated with one group of people - Established professionals tend to prefer multi race/cultural areas and the concentration of one group in RI creepy.
I hope you did your homework and you identified and accept the negatives that come with the island; otherwise, you will be very disappointed in living there.

Yeah what exactly happens after the 60 years anyone know?

Keremetski,interested in hearing more about your experiences at RI. Which 2 BR line did you purchase (F, A, C)? Have you moved in? How did transaction go? If you don't mind talking about your experience directly you can reach me through http://scr.im/universal

Anyone know how many units will be rentals?

tnx for the laugh AR - loved the irr....

does anyone that lives in this building have any ideas how many are rentals vs owner occupied?

does anyone that lives in this building have any ideas how many are rentals vs owner occupied?

Please give me your opinions on what the sf in this building should be. I am considering making an offer but I see that all the closings occur at abou 575 to 600sf. I like the quiet and love the building itself but compared to other neighborhoods I am worried that that may be a little igh for Roosevelt Island.

"learnt"?

Really?

Steve - I didn't realize that you were a looser.

waverly, you need to keep up as well. steve is a looser!!! and feeling positive to buut!!

tee hee hee

yaris i am curious as well but I think it is still a little high for RI

and why havent thry cut prices like some of the places in brooklyn?

I think that they came down like 20% on some of their units from peak pricing, does anyone else know?

Yes, they came down some, but they are still a bit overpriced. With that said, they seem to be selling them, although the Sales Office may not be telling the complete truth about total sales to date.

The monthlies are a bit high and considering that it is a landlease I thought that they would have to come down more in order to sell them but they are very nice units although there seems to be alot of rentals as well

i thought fdr island was in the potomac

Check Forte in Fort Greene. Following another round of 25% price cut 2 weeks ago, their current prices are close to 50% discount from peak. Eurohypo, a German bank, now owns the building and they are trying to unload the units quickly.
We checked Riverwalk. Nice building but not too crazy about the land lease thing. I am sure monthly fees will sky rocket soon to start saving for future land lease payments. And you are never guaranteed the lease will be renewed. Too many uncertainties.
We ended up buying at Forte. We love the building and area. You are only 2 subway stops away from Manhattan and subway lines 2/3 and 3/4 are around the corner. And we paid over 150k less for a unit similar to what we had in mind at Riverwalk and for a higher floor and better views.

The landlease does not expire for another 60 years, so not sure why you would be that concerned., the time to start to get concerned is like 30-40 years from now. Did you plan to live in the rivercourt for the next 30 years? The city of ny owns this land, so I would think this is one of the less risky landleases around. In any event, the common fees are high to pay for the lease on the land and the sales office does not tell the truth and has many complaints at the AG's office.

Not sure Forte was the smartest move. The bak took over this building and it is likely they will need to offer many of the remaining apartment to low-to moderate income people. If this happens, the vvalueof your investment drops well beyond the 50% savings you received. The value will be like 25% of the price you paid. I too looked at Forte and bid 40% less than asking, which was already about 45% less than the inital asking price. They countered with a 30% reduction. I would steer clear of Forte, RIverwalk and any other building that seems to good to be true.

hummmm Jon, are you kidding me. So what you are saying is that my unit will be approximately 20% of the original asking prices - do you think this is believable. I don't think so.

With regards to the 60 year lease, all I am saying is for people to question that. For sure I won't be around in 60 yrs; however, land leases would create lots of uncertainties which would push away from the building in case you need to resell. Check Battery Park and the high common charge units have and which is the reason that prices there are always less than other places in the city.

The sales office at Riverwalk gives you different answers dependig on who you talk to about the land lease. I think being that nyc is the the lease holder it is less risky but considering that when you want to sell this creates uncertinty and uncertinty brings prices down. Generally land lease buildings are priced 20% less but this building does not reflect that. Also does anyone know how many of these unts are owner occupied or rentals?

They should be able to email you a copy of the page of the project document covering the land lease. It contains the conditions and specifies risks of the underlying land lease. The sales office should normally not speculate as to what will happen at the end of the lease between the city and the state, because nobody knows, not even the city or the state. For what it's worth, I was tempted to buy in the building, but decided against it for a number of reasons including problems with the train/tram service (the Tram is scheduled to close in March for 6 months). Maybe if the price chopper visits again, I'll reconsider.

I suspect the price chopper is not going to visit again. The units they still have available are moving in this market, which would seem to indicate they are priced (give or take 5%) right for the market. I do hear their is a lot of crime on RI and gangs.

There was a discussion in the ny times today on land leases. Check it out below. I would honestly stay away - there is no need to get involved in a land lease situation unless you are getting a huge discount, which are not being offered at Riverwalk.

http://realestateqa.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/11/land-lease-options-for-co-op-buildings/

Land Lease Options for Co-op Buildings
By JAY ROMANO
Q.
The co-op building that I am considering buying into has a lease on its land that will expire in two years. Is it safe to buy into a co-op when the building’s lease will soon expire?

A.
Stuart M. Saft, a Manhattan co-op and condominium lawyer, says a few co-op buildings are built on land that the co-op leases rather than owns. “If such a lease has a term of less than two years,” he said, “the purchaser might be at great risk in buying the apartment unless the co-op corporation has an option to extend the ground lease or to purchase the land.”

If the corporation has no such option, the shareholders will revert to being rental tenants and will no longer have any equity in their apartments.

not all land leases are bad. If your in Battery Park City, those land leases are more secure.

They are more secure if they have the extension option but still they are pricey and that is the reason units in Battery Park carry very high common charges.

I'm not sure about whether or not they are moving units. I kept on hearing that, but only last week I was informed that only 40% of the units were closed. I suspect that a lot of the closed ones are from the C line and other units that they offered steep discounts to make it over 50% line. Other units that do not benefit from the early discout may be a bit tougher to sell. I suspect that there may be an illusion of movement for these units due to the intense marketing campaign as they enter December/January doldrums and approach the Tram shutdown in March 2010. Availability can also be used to create an impression of movement.

Crime is really not an issue for those living at Riverwalk, since the crime stats are not at all bad. You can see them posted on some RI blogs, and the Related buildings form an upscale enclave distinct from the rest of the island.

In addition to the commute issue, the other problem that discouraged me from purcasing was the intentse competition from the Related rental building next door, and other rental buildings on RI. In Riverwalk Crossing they are renting luxury 2 bedroom units for $3595 and 1 bedroom units for $2495 with incentives such as 1 month free, credit card payment, etc.. Can't compete with that and still cover mortgage and other costs.

If RI is your think just lease from the luxury building next door and save thousands of dollars on interest payments to the bank.

Universal good point about the other Related buildings...Riverwalk place for example has some units that sellers are desperate to sell I went to an open house for some of these (bot as nice as Riveralk Court) but the broker was begging us to make any offer the sellers just wanted to get out since they bought at peak pricing. I feel there will be alot of steep discounts in this building and the monthlies are much less tgat will effect Riverwalk court as well. Also do you know why they were giving more discounts on the C line?

george12, curious is it a C unit that you purchased at Forte? And what line of units were you considering at Riverwalk?

Riverwlk is also approved for Fha loan wonder how many people are going through that program and only puting 5% down as is the case in some harlem condos that were not moving anyone have any thought or info?

With FHA you only need to put 3.5% down. I assume most of the recent sales in the building are FHA loans, which seems like a reasonable program for anyone who does not have 20% down.

I think so too a lot more sales since they became fha approved...any thoughts on what price psf should be in riverwalk? It seems to be $580 is this fair for todays market?

Depends on floor and view. Likely 600 psf, I think Riverwalk is trying to get more like 650 psf. Landlease aside, Related is a solid developer and the building is the nicest on RI.

There were some units that closed in the 580psf range...but I dont see how they can keep selling at these prices

I think they are going to bring down their prices early next year when tram comes to a halt..

i was considering renting there 1st to see if i would like ri but tram out of service for 6 months?...that is scary isnt the f train already packed

You should try taking F train the time you leave for work from there and you could talk to the people taking train regarding their views on train services before you even rent there.

I think it will be bed to live there if the commute is horrible, unless you intend to drive.

> RI is gourgous island

Apparently "gourgous" in this guy's language means ugly piece of crap, so bad they used it as the SET OF A HORROR MOVIE (with no changes!!!)

The whole riverwalk development does not make sence to me...how can riverwalk place 455 main st ask $650k for a one bedroom when a new 1 bed same size in riverwalk court new building415 main cost $530ish k?? Well then I looked the same unit in riverwalk place sold for $740k in 2006...that is insane and the seller is already taking a 100k loss and there are so many people in this situation this makes me feareful to buy in any riverwalk building

Nina, you would face the same situation in any other development of the Riverwalk kind (meaning, one that has been built in stages and is big enough to have had a sustained pace of sales all the way up to the bubble and back again) The thing is: there aren't many like it. If you see the prices that the institutional buyers (Not NYU, which got in late in the game, but Memorial-Sloan Kettering and Cornell-Weil) got pre-construction in early 2006, I think some were below 450 psf. Related has the deepest pockets, so you shouldn't be concerned about the project going belly-up or something, but just ask yourself whether 580 psf sounds like the best ever for RI or not, and also, since the possibility of prices going up is near zero and there's plenty of units available, what are the downsides of waiting, if any.

What I meant to say is: there's no development that was around in 2006 or 2007 where you won't see resales asking 15% or 20% less than they paid. That doesn't imply anything about 455 Main's financial health. The point is: would you pay 580 psf for new construction in RI today, or would you rather wait until old co-ops in the UES reach similar prices?

I do agree with your point as well Tromp Im just wondering what these people who bought to almost $800psf at 455 Main are going to do when they cant sell their units right now 3 for sale in that situation but it dosnt mean that there is not many more. My concern is how will that effect 415 Main. As far as UES these are some condos in Yorkville that are in the $700 psf range in solid buildings with good financials Im trying to weigh that against new construction on a land lease

Roosevelt Island is creepy. I went there and the view from the tram was great. Most of the people there looked like they lived in public housing. It's really strange that they have those pretty new buildings there looking very desolate and then there is tons of public housing. You can get a nice apartment there but I would not want to live in that neighborhood.

I think the appeal is the proximity only one stop on f train from manhattan (I know technically it is Manhattan but...) I dont think it is all public housing but I dont live there so I m not sure from what Iv eseen there are alot of people doctors nurses that work at the hospitals too

Other issue (that was THE issue in fact for my family) is that if you have or plan to have children, there's a galactic distance between the PS in RI and those available in UES or even in good areas of Brooklyn (Park Slope or Cobble Hill, for example). As I said before, with the inevitability of such a huge RE bubble deflating over a lengthy period of time, no big building in the entire city will be immune to having a few owners who are trying to short sale their previous purchases. It's just gravity. I don't that affects 415 or 455 Main per se. I mean, in the case of 415 its entire problem (mind you, it is higher-end construction than 455 and its selling for less) has been coming out to the market in late 2008 rather than late 2006.

yeas exactly tromp 415 is better and selling for 100k less the 455 main...where is the logic in that well i shouldnt say selling they are asking that but so far no sales at 455 main although one advantage they have is the monthlies are lower. do u know what percentage of riverwalk court is sold?

To nina15: Seems to me that Roosevelt Island may be good for somebody who works at home. I've been thinking about it, but share some of the above concerns. I've read that there is limited retail. I haven't heard about the gangs, it's been my understanding that Roosevelt Island's crime rate is very low. I haven't heard of any violent crime reports.

With three ways to get into Manhattan (Tram, subway, and bus), I would be O.K; not traveling at rush hours. Buying groceries, having food delivered, those daily things appear to be problematic on R.I.

I do agree that the prices at 415 are still a bit high. The best views are the costliest units, I assume. After paying Property taxes, here in Manhattan; and living in a Building that's older than I am -- I'm interested in buying at a new development with a R.E.tax abatement.

I'm starting to think about the new Condo Buildings in Astoria. It's close to Manhattan, has great restaurants and local retail, and is a safe area. Any ideas about Astoria?

Truth my bf lived in Astoria it was a huge pain to commute I would not reccomend it thats where ri would be more of an advantage if ur only one stop away from manhattan but commuing from astoria for me was too far

Thanks for the input, Nina. Since I work from home, the commute isn't an issue. I'm worried about resale, on R.I. I wouldn't live there for 60 years, but would not live there for more than about 10 years or so. Don't want to grow older living on R.I. (as the commenter pointed out). It's nice to have some shopping, and a neighborhood.
And, the prices are still too high on R.I. I really want a new building,so Astoria is starting to look good to me. If your bf lived in Astoria and liked it (except for the commute) that's good.

R.I. is dog shit

Truth have you thought about lic? Would u prefer lic over ri?

We moved to Roosevelt Iland 2 years ago and after a rough start really like it. we're renting in RW Landing and want 2 buy in the next yr. The entire island is on the same grund lease so that doesn't bother us. RI has its issues but we're psychd about the new Gifted & Talented program on the island at PS 217 and will apply there when our toddler is old enough.

Nina: I actually thought about LIC, specifically the Lhaus condo building. My original concern about the area is that it's industrial with warehouses. Sounded too desolate to be safe for me. Then, I read the comments posted here about Lhaus, and that gave me more insight to the location's negatives -- but, I've never been to LIC.(I once went to R.I., in the mid-seventies, a friend lived there and threw a party. I liked the view, enjoyed the Tram ride; and it was probably a very nice party - I can't remember anything else.)

But, LIC is even more inconvient to getting into Manhattan.I wouldn't feel safe there, late at night. I think that Astoria is good because it's a nice neighborhood. I've never been to Astoria, but I'm going there to check it out, in the Spring. Check some new Condo buildings, and walk around the neighborhood.
I'm a native New Yorker, and I only know about Brooklyn (haven't been there in 14 years, I know it's changed, but not really interested in those neighborhoods.The prices in Brooklyn were and still are, way too high.) I know about Manhattan, obviously. So, I can give you advice on buying here (Co-ops and Condos -- have owned both.) Are you a first time buyer? If you'd like some input, we can chat by e-mail, or by telephone call. I went to so many buildings, to check out Manhattan apartments; so I may have some info on buildings that you are considering.

Giantsfan: I do think that R.I. is a nice place to raise a family. You don't have the noise and traffic problems. I don't have children, and am not planning to. Hope it works out for you and yours.

hey truth id recommend lic too. Near Gantry park most of the warehouses are gone and condos/rentals are up.
Also the commute from LIC is easier than RI's commute. LIC (meaning Gantry park, so within 5 minutes walking to vernon blv 7 train stop) is quick commute to ANYWHERE in manhattan. i lived there last year and i commuted from lic to columbus circle in 15-20 mintues.

The neighborhood is also being developed way more than RI. ALso the nice part about LIC is the CC's in most buildings are pretty low. anywhere form .40-70/sft. And it is very safe. Police department is right near the subway stop. Crime in near Gantry park is pretty low. My sister lived here for over a year by herself with no problems. And there has been a huge influx of families and 20-40 professional types. No low income housing helps LIC. Anyways enough about LIC im in the market too. Ive been looking at RI LIC and Brooklyn but for these prices it seems like ill take LIC.

LIC developers are asking for around 700-900 psft but most are closing near 550-650

also the 7 train takes to grand central and times square within 5-10 minutes. the whole city can be easily reached from those two stops.

I think prices in lic and ri seem to be closing pretty close $550-650...is jackson ave considered lic where the vere 26 building is they are asking $700s psf for a 2 bedroom how is that possible?? with only a dominos pizza and gas station close by

Thanks,s2k. That's info I haven't read about here before.

Nina: All I know about Jackson Ave., is that's where the office of the car-service I use, is located.

thanks truth

Nina: you can see how little I know about LIC.!

are there plans to build anymore condos on ri does anyone know? these seem to be selling well

They claim that they will within 10 years build up 3 more condos (smaller than 415) right around the dog park area (closer to the Queens side). but I honestly don't think they will put that into action until the overall financial situation gets healthier. They also claim to introduce more neighborhood stores and restaurants. but I hardly see any space left on the island (around riverwalk commons) for them to do so... I'm heavily debating between RI and LIC...

mee too cxian I do like RI better lic is still too underveloped for me still too many warehouses and a lack of ameneties

Nina: I'm not counting on any more development on R.I. This whole situation has to shake itself out with the R.E. market.

We checked out LIC first. On the plus side, there were a lot more buildings to choose from. But I agree with Nina, we just thought it was too gritty. RI is the big winner in terms of grass, trees, playgrounds, and sports. Now if only they would upgrade that lame tot lot!

Nina don't look at all those buildings far away from the water in LIC. Those aren't "prime" real estate". idk what those developers are thinking. all those buildings are in pretty gritty neighboorhoods.

In LIC id look at : Powerhouse, Solarium, 5SL, Gantry, Foundry, 10-50 jackson, 10-63 jackson, and the view. Most of these places have asking prices of 650-800. But most are closing near 600.

I don't understand...Your big 'fucker you America loosers' is to buy on Roosevelt Island?

The first resale is happening in Riverwalk court one month after the guy closed...what does that tell you and many more to come Im sure the developer is going to have to compete w the resales

Rhino I dont understand ur comment

The guy who started this thread curses the dollar and America...and the conclusion he reaches is to own a piece of property on Roosevelt Island.

SO who is buying in this development is it mostly families?

nina, I'm the agent on this resale on Roosevelt Island, 415 Main. Owing to a job change, the buyer, who loves this apartment, is moving to Boston.

That's the thing about owning real estate. People's circumstances change, and then they have to sell. Just because an apartment, or even several apartments, is/are for sale doesn't tell you anything whatsoever about the building or area.

As far as who is seriously looking at this apartment? I am seeing and talking with an extremely wide range of people of all ages and stages of life. Really not kidding.

Roosevelt Island is a little weirdly friendly, in my experience. The second time I was in Starbucks they treated me like a old chum. People know the first names of the tram operators and chat with them. There is not much bar scene that I can find, although there's a sports bar in the building next door, no night clubs, no art museums (one historic museum house). There is a great diner, but no McDonald's that I know of, certainly no three- or four- or five-star restaurant. One big Gristede's that has more stuff than a usual store, but I notice Fresh Direct deliveries are common.

Cops ticket like crazy for things like U-turns, rolling stop sign stops and expired meters (I was warned so I watch my car's meter like a hawk). Where this building is, it is QUIET. Wide open spaces, big sky, water, I sit in the apartment waiting for people and watch the boats cruise by. The local newspaper comes out every two weeks, with advertising by cat sitters, yoga instructors, dentists, the occasional live music event.

Re: the commute, I've been there at all hours now and I do not find the subway as crowded as the 4/5/6 is nearly all the time. The tram is closing in March for a few months for renovation, that will certainly make the commute more crowded. I want to ride the tram in a snowstorm but the weather hasn't cooperated so far. The tram will be back.

Anyway, I'm hosting an open house Tues Feb. 9, 6 PM to 7:30 PM, if anyone wants to stop by.

The open house is on for tonight, Tuesday Feb. 9, 6-7:30 PM, because the snow is not expected to get heavy until around midnight. This is apartment 10-H in Riverwalk Court, 415 Main Street, Roosevelt Island.

I'm leaving promptly at 7:30, though, as I'm driving to Long Island afterward.

Yeah, Kharby2, good luck trying to sell 10H when many other H lines are avail,including 11H at a lower price with many incentives being offered by Related.

I had a friend that went to the open house while they were there for 20 min no one else came the broker triedto justify the price (which is higher then what the owner paid for it just over a month ago) by mentioning the great ameneties in the building...get real when are people going to get realistic if they realy want to move a property price it right!!!!!

I've lived on RI for over a year and here's my honest assessment of Riverwalk:

The Good: The commute to midtown is great (although could get ugly when the tram goes out of service). It's extremely quiet. Great place to raise small children. Cool in the summertime. Nice views. Despite what some moron said, there's essentially no crime on RI.

The Bad: There is nothing to do and nowhere to shop on the island. The Gristedes is disgusting. The retail situation will not improve much in the future. If this is a dealbreaker, RI is not for you. PS 217 is not good, and the jury is still out on the new G&T program, but at least it's District 2. It does sometimes feel as if there are two Roosevelt Islands (in terms of demographics), but it's not as extreme as one might think since the "lower class" is Mitchell-Lama (hence, patient middle class, rather than poor) and the "upper class" is not even remotely rich and snooty by NYC standards.

We're seriously considering Riverwalk, but our main concerns are: (1) For reasons described by others, I don't see a whole lot of appreciation in the future. (2) School concerns. Also, I have no idea what to make of this land lease issue. On the other hand, Manhattan is still too expensive, and we don't want to live any farther from midtown.

mly you make some very good points while its a great plae for families the school is not very good at all and I agree with you I just cant see any appreciation here since I dont see any change or more development coming to the island the prices are still high in my opinion considering the location and what rents are on RI also there seems to be a lot of units that are up for rent as well

This is so wierd. Someone just told me about this site, and reading through the posts, I wonder whether anyone actually sends their kids to 217. We have 2 kids at 217 and we love the school. We haven't had a bad homeroom teacher yet. The facilities are Amazing. Show me a neighborhood school that has the Apple mac lab room or the theater program or music program that 217 has. Every now and then I hear people dissing the school, and usually they've never set foot in the school. I went to my first PTA meeting last year, and it was packed!

Fwiw, I have "set foot" in 217, and I thought it seemed decent enough. And all of the kids I know who go there seem like great kids. I definitely *want* to believe that 217 is a good school, because I like RI. But the proof is in the pudding, and 217's test scores are not good. I don't think that test scores are everything, but low test scores are definitely a red flag. It means that the teachers and/or the parents aren't doing what's necessary to make sure that the kids learn their basics, and in either case, that's not the optimal environment for my child.

To be frank, I think that some people fear 217 because it has too many black kids and too few white kids. (Notably, this is also why a lot of people don't want to live on RI at all, even though the demographics of the market rate buildings are very different.) Personally, I don't care about that if the test scores are strong.

From what I have seen there really are 2 RI's The people in RIverwalk condos and rentals and the Rest of the island which looks run down and some of it looks very low income nothing against that but Im trying to understand why someone would pay such a price to live there and also the rents are so much cheaper then owning there you can even rent at Riverwalk for much less then the price of ownership and considering the landlease what is the advantage to owning there? Also tram will be out of service for 6 months what will that do to values of condos at riverwalk?

Anyone attended any open houses in riverwalk today?

nina15 - a land lease is nothing new. There are many buildings in manhattan that are set up this way. And because of the land lease we enjoy a tremendous tax savings. When the lease expires or when the taxes finally do kick in, there are legal procedures and protocol that govern what happens next. If you read one of the prospectus' from either Riverwalk Place or Riverwalk Court, you will understand. So while there may be some decrease in property value as the current lease approaches renewal, in theory values will return to market rate once a new lease is in place.

What will the tram shutdown due to the values of condos at Riverwalk? Nothing. In fact once the tram is completed, it will only add value because there will be a brand new tram in place that will certainly attract attention and positive advertising.

Regarding Riverwalk Court, nice building but Riverwalk Place is a much better value. Why? Several reasons; first and foremost, Riverwalk Place common charges are much lower then Riverwalk Court. In comparing two bedroom apartments over five years, Riverwalk Court will cost anywhere from $25,000 to $40,000 more depending on which unit you buy. And Riverwalk Court cc's are most certainly going to increase even more. Developers typically under assess these costs in order to make them more attractive. In the long run, Riverwalk Place will command higher value and better resale than Riverwalk Court. Secondly, over the past few years Related has procured most of their building material from China. As such, they have drawn negative press for the poor quality of their product. Most notably, The Brompton, The Veneto and Riverwalk Court. They keep this a secret for obvious reasons. Riverwalk Place was not part of the China run.

People at Riverwalk Court can not help it that they bought at the height of the market, but many who bought pre-construction paid around $550 per sq ft. And many of them sold before the crash at $800-900 a sq ft. Not bad! In the end its all timing.

Michael77thanks for your input..I agree timing is everything and people cant hrlp that they bought at the height of the market however trying to sell it at those prices today is what is crazy. If you notice Riverwalk Place has a number of units for sale all with high asking prices close to what they paid for it in 2006/2007 and none have sold. Either people have to price things correctly otherwise it will just sit there unsold. Also why are common charges so much higher at Riverwalk Court vs RIverwalk Place? Ive been to both buildings and Riverwalk COurt does not seem like bad quality construction to me but I am not familiar with the China issue you mention

Thanks, Michael77. You are right about the tram modernization benefits to the value of the condos on RI. I just read that the "$25 million modernization project, including $15 million from the state, will upgrade the 34 year-old tram into the 21st Century. The tram's two gondolas will be replaced to function independently and the terminals at both ends will be remodeled". During the closure, the RI red minibus service will provide connection between Roosevelt Island and near by subway station in Long Island City, Queens, and in Manhattan. The F line subway services to and from RI will still provided during the closure and if the F line will not function at certain times for its own maintenance, the red minibus will provide increased service. The modernized tram service will reopen on Sep. 3. Home ownership should hopefully be longer term than six months!!!

The red bus is extremely unrelaliable I have heard this from residents that actually try and use it

the f train overcrowded

Re. land lease, there may be some decrease in property value as the land lease approaches renewal in 2068, but by that time the appreciation of RI should increase by far more than the decrease because of land lease. As the entire RI is on leased land by the NY state from the New York City, no one should be afraid of consequences. This is not like Battery Park where different developers got different deals from the New York City and different from some buildings in Manhattan, where a developer has created/started a coop on leased land from himself and he has no interest to renew the lease, just to expropriate it... But there are some great coops on land lease in Manhattan, such as the Carnegie building on 57th St (I looked into buying there, but the building is old and a coop, not for me...).

Re. home ownership vs. leasing, it depends on one's life style, needs, circumstances, financial considerations and preferences. Same with cars - one can own a car, lease a car or use public transportation.

People living in RI rent, own in a condo, or own shares in a coop. All options are available. There are lower class people that rent, but there are also doctors and university professors that rent (or have bought) units initially bought from Related by several Universities, such as Cornell and New York University, to attract high quality staff by offering them great accommodation in a new building. There are four floors owned by Cornell at 455 Main St (Riverwalk Place).

Maybe the guaranteed/secured ownership by Cornell has influenced lower maintenance costs in that building. Other factors may be the larger number of apartments (over 250) in Riverwalk Place, some being studios occupied by single people than at 415 Main St (Riverwalk Court), where there are just some 100+ apartments. Finally, the lower maintenance could be caused by the negotiated bulk purchase of electricity from the supplier. Such an arrangement may not exist also for 415 Main St. The Riverwalk Place is the first condo on RI and possibly everything was done right for it. Better economic times have influenced the quality of the building.

Where we buy it's up to us. But not only dollar only per sqft of construction is what causes different prices in different buildings, but also the quality of that sqft, the demand vs. supply, etc.

I am not familiar with the China issue.

I am in Contract on RI. I did some homework and other questions are being answered by my lawyer. Good luck in your own decisions!

In my opinion there is just not enough ameneties on RI to justify the high asking prices of the condos and I definetly get a feeling that there are two distinct RI;s one being very low income. And the public school does not help not very good. Just my opinion from what I have seen

I learned from people involved in discussions. I decided to buy on RI and I am very happy about my decision. I added comments hoping they could help in a decision about buying or renting on the island and in which building. Nina15, we all know that the F train is overcrowded at certain hours. The red line will be improved during the tram modernization and hopefully it will stay that way. The tram will be a better, faster and more reliable tram. But in the end, RI will not be for everyone.

I hope that further discussions will continue to be constructive, not simply for the sake of arguments. Once again, good luck to all. This is my last comment.

CST do you live in Riverwalk court or Place those are the buildings that I am referring to

Nina15, I don't live yet on RI, I just made an offer to buy and entered in Contract for a unit. I will be moving sometime in the spring. I think both buildings are great (I am not familiar at all with the China issue) but it's a question of needs, wants, money (purchase price and monthlies), etc.

Good luck to you.

Sorry, no more comments from me.

Saying the red bus is "extremely unreliable" is simply not based in fact. I know from first-hand experience, I've watched it for hours and hours and I've certainly ridden it enough. The red bus has a schedule and keeps it well. I could imagine people might like it to run more often, but is there any form of public transportation in NYC that people don't want to run more often?

Unlike Nina I'm upfront about my agenda. I have an exclusive listing at 415 Main Street, and an open house this Sunday if anyone wants to a beautiful 2-bedroom apartment. If I had the money I would buy it myself, and I don't say that very often about apartments I market.

The China-materials slur is just irritating--my iPod is built in China, it works great. In this apartment the windows seal like vacuum lids, there is detailed molding throughout the building, including marble molding in public spaces. Many circa 1960's buildings in Manhattan I have seen have no where near this quality of build.