Toren, Oro, are all screwed....Downtown Brooklyn pricing at $400/sqft

explain please

What about the 4th ave condos or the Edge 1 + 2 and North Side piers 2 do you think they are screwed too?

I wouldn't say they are both screwed. Oro has been open to price negotiation for quite some time, so they might be okay.

Is this news, in the sense that have there been some recent price decreases?...just glancing a the street easy a lot of units dont show a decrease. In what way is this relevant to other brooklyn areas?

If you look at the past listings from the Developers Group that were removed when the building went back the bank you'll see that there have been 25% price cuts. Would you consider that news?

Actually the prices are down 35-45% from the original prices, 25-35% from the "last price".
They are almost a good value, so if the seller is willing to negotiate a little bit, these will sell and help make the new market prices in Downtown Brooklyn. Very interesting.

no shocker here. I wonder what sort of effect this has on all the brownstone owners in Fort Greene who will need to refinance the next couple of years?

ain't buying in these developments regardless of the price cuts because, don't forget, their monthly CC is still excessive!

JB32, what is an excessive cc. From what I see, they seem pretty reasonable.
Can you provide more detail on how you are reaching your conclusion? We are still learning the market here and any information would be helpful. Thank you

Well tobytoby, it's simple. For very limited/basic amenities, it shouldn't cost over 50 to 60 cents per square foot for a development like Forte. Their CC are almost 80 cents a square foot and hence, excessive. The kind of CC they are charging at Forte for this neighborhood is only justified if it had a day care, pool, common bike room, storage, parking, viewing room, etc. Don't forget that monthly CC is neither deductible nor benefits your home value, so this is money you are throwing away every month! Even if the asking prices are now lowered, CC is still high. So your total monthly is still high. I'd rather buy in a development with reasonable CC so that most of my monthly goes towards home capital / mortgage.

Can the CC decrease once the Sponsor hands over control to the Condo Association, and they find that the CCs are excessive for the amenities?

That's a great ? I would love to know the answer to that. In a condo it would seem the monthlies go only to upkeep expenses (as opposed to some underlying financing as in a coop). So if there are no ammenities and minimal upkeep expense, can't the these charges be reduced esp since it is really just an estimate?

Anyone know if any units have closed at Toren?

HH11231 - "Can the CC decrease once the Sponsor hands over control to the Condo Association, and they find that the CCs are excessive for the amenities?"

It's been a pretty common practice to low-ball the CC's during the construction boom years. Only after 50% or 75% of units have been sold (depending of individual sponsors plan) and the condo board was turned over to the residents has it been discovered that the CC's were not enough. I can only speak for four condos that were like that but after talking with real estate lawyers, it seems to be a common practice among developers. Just like it's common practice to exaggerate square footage /- 5% construction variance.

This doesn't surprise me at all. It seems that developers have little incentive to keep amenities in check when they can so easily fudge the cost, and ring some bells for people looking for things to like. And apparently plenty of buyers are seduced by the most assinine amenities (really, how many people need a screening room?. virtual golf....and before some dumb-dumb says "i like that", the issue is what percentage of residents use these things, not whether a few like it).

I went to Oro this weekend as well. didnt like it at all.

@jimstreeteasy: exactly my point. Forte's CC is excessive and unjustified for the kind of basic amenities it offers. You are better off finding a condo unit with low CC and basic necessary amenities where most of your monthly goes towards home value and not CC.

@HH11231: CC is set by the developer based on the management company handling the maintenenace currently. It can not be changed until a year after a condo board is formed, for which the building needs to be pretty much completely sold / occupied. The condo board can then hire a new management agency to take care of the building. For example, if the board decides not to have a doorman, the CC will drop...but that's not gonna happen for that area plus you may then have to install a video intercom, which will cost money. So, I think you are pretty much stuck with this CC forever and look out for gradual increases every other year (inflation adjustment, more maintenance as the building gets older / more used, etc).

I think that if the prices of Forté were to come down some more it could make up for the high maintenance. I've long thought the units in this building will get down to around $350/sf on average when the market finally hits bottom.

Regarding fudging the numbers, one would expect the developer to fudge it to be lower, not higher. So probably it is indeed that high.
One question is whether the developer/sponsor or bank has been paying the Common charges of the unsold units to the condominium. One possible factor driving up the CC is that there are less units in Forte vs. other buildings you are comparing to. Need to see the financials before buying.

$400 psf. whoah. here it comes.

The new reality...

I think any potential buyer browsing this site would have to consider suicide. Don't.

One thing totally overlooked on this thread is that a lot of the new buildings in Brooklyn and RI have great long term tax abatements. These abatements will provide tremendous savings in the future-taxes are going up my friends.

And, no I am not an active re broker (I do have a license by virtue of my law license) and I have NO relationship to any of these buildings.

I am curious about the new condos on RI does anyone that actually lives have any info...

I like this new pricing for the Forte building - I've always steered clients away from it (low ceilings, high prices), but I love the location. I think these numbers make a strong argument for checking out the units I have dismissed previously. The aggressive re-pricing has worked brilliantly for Forte's neighbor, One Hanson. (Asking prices have ticked back up there, following a spike in signed contracts spurred by 25%+ discounts.)

I don't know to what extent this impacts Oro and Toren, which may seem close by, but are in a completely different neighborhood (whether they think so or not). On location alone, I give the advantage to Forte. Aesthetics is a different matter, of course...

Tina
(Brooklyn broker)

the price per square foot at forte will definitely affect the surrounding new developemnets. And YES Toren and ORO will be affected. Unfortunately it will take time until the developers of those condo developements begin to face a not so pleasant reality!

Oro just had a 20% price cut across the board but hasn't seemed to move much units. Will they have to lower prices after Forte's price cut?

Tina, there are 5 floors (out of 27) at Forte that have 11' ceilings. You need to do your homework and steer clients there if they want high ceilings. :)