Need Help finding a Family Sized Rental ASAP

lo888: Most likely what you are looking for will be an exclusive listing of a large firm. That said I may have a solution for you. keith at theburkhardtgroup dot com

Happy Thanksgiving!

4 bedroom apts. are very rare, and even fewer of them are rentals. you might need to hire a broker in that category.

78 listings with no fee shown in SE search. here's one:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/499960-rental-350-central-park-west-upper-west-side-new-york

macklowe's river tower often has large four bedrooms available. they are only listing immediate availabilities, but you might want to give them a call and see if they are currently preparing any for rental. have you called related, or just searched their website?

http://www.macklowe.com/index.html?building=RT

I live at Tribeca Green (Related building) in North Battery Park. We have a 3BR which works for our family of 4 but I think there are also 4BRs. I just checked the site & see there aren't any listed but if you call, you can find out if they know if anything is coming available. There's also no fee. We love the building, btw, and Related has always been extremely pleasant to deal with. GL!

I'm guessing it's beneath you to look outside of manhattan, yes?

Try Washington Heights. Seriously. Some gorgeous 4 bedrooms still retain their original prewar layouts, many of which are still rent-controlled.

I think as a general rule, I've found that whatever is listed on management company websites is rarely accurate. I've found most apartments by calling 5-6 management companies, describing what I need and asking them to send me whatever they have available. I haven't done this with 4-bedrooms, but our criteria are/were pretty specific as well, and I've had good success. The only downside is that it's time-consuming to do.

In my searches for apts to rent and buy, I've definitely come across 4-bedrooms for rent, so I know they exist. From what I've seen, prices range from $7000-$20,000

As for brokers, I don't think it's any different than looking for any other apartment. Obviously don't hire a broker to look for you, like you said, Plus, avoid "listings" that don't have an address, because they're not really listings, just brokers pimping someone else's listing/apartment. But if a broker has an exclusive listing at a condo (or even coop) rental, you shouldn't avoid it just because you don't want to pay a broker fee. Everything is negotiable, and for condos/coops for rent, going through the broker who has the exclusive is probably the only way. And there may be more large apartments for rent in condo/coops than in rental buildings. You wouldn't just look at FSBOs if you were looking to buy, would you?

Thanks guys! I will try all leads. Just found out that we have to be out by Christmas. May have to go into temporary but really hope to avoid that.

Aboutready - Actually used to live in the Rivertower and there was a 4 bedroom a few weeks ago but I checked with them earlier this week and it was taken.

Positivecarry, NYCMatt - have to stay in the City for school.

school? You can go to school online! Seriously though, you can probably rent a house with a yard in queens for what you're willing to play. Plus, your kids can learn mandarin.

OK - please let me know if I am missing anything (I already sent all the listings on their sites):

Related - sent email
Glenwood - sent email
Rockrose - only downtown
Rose - too small
Equity - one match and can't find contact details?
Sky - sent email
Brodsky - sent email but they seem small
Macklowe - no availability
Ogden - sent email

not many rental buildings have full 4 bdrms--you will likely need to rent a condo or coop from an coop/condo owner--an owner who, given they can afford to own such an apt, will likly use a broker

"Try Washington Heights. Seriously. Some gorgeous 4 bedrooms still retain their original prewar layouts, many of which are still rent-controlled."
"Positivecarry, NYCMatt - have to stay in the City for school."

LOL, in which city do you think washington heights is? hey NYCMatt, how do you manage to find those gorgeus big rentals? i'd love to get one of those.

lo: you need to call - it seems strange that they wouldn't reply their emails in a market like this, but calling works.

Also try Milstein Management.

Also, why haven't you called the numerous places on the market with brokers but they're listed as "no-fee" bcs owner is paying.

Am calling the no fee listings also.

I would call even the fee listings, some have been on the market for 6 months and have cut the rent 3 or 4 times. I bet some would be willing to eat the fee if they had a qualified applicant with a firm January 1 move-in date.

For Glenwood, it matters whom you deal with. We learned the hard way. Try Gene at EWaggelman@GlenwoodNYC.com or 517-303-5895.

Brodsky is stupidly unresponsive, you have to try them again and again, but they have some good options and some good deals (at least on the stuff we wanted). Also, you have to call different parts of Brodsky separately, there is no one office that deals with all listings. Annoying, I know.

Also Olnick, Archstone, Stonehenge, Milford Management, and Carlyle Construction (cccnyc.com).

Good luck.

Thanks guys. The only people open today were Glenwood and they only had 3 possible apartments in their whole system. This is going to be even tougher than I thought!

Btw,do brokers HAVE to give you an address upon request? I have someone who keeps giving me the cross street only and asking if I want to see it. I am certainly not meeting them on the corner like a drug dealer but I want to know how far I can insist (I can't find the listing.)

lo888: You should by no means exclude broker listings from your search, particularly given the paucity of 4 BR apartments in rental buildings. You may find brokers to be negotiable, or for owners to be willing to cough up some of the broker fee. I rented a condo in the spring and negotiated the listing broker's fee to about 20% of one month's rent; I have no idea what the apartment owner paid. OTOH, a broker who wants to meet you on a street corner is not a listing broker and if you like the apartment he shows you then you will be in the unenviable position of two mouths to feed: both the original listing broker and the street corner broker.

Here's something you may want to take a look at, although I have no idea of the price and, for that matter, your budget:

http://www.archstoneapartments.com/Apartments/New_York/New_York_City/Archstone_101_West_End/Unit15W.htm

lo - i totally agree. ours (3br) wasn't a no-fee listing but w/ negotiations owner ended up paying broker fee. this is part of the "don't limit your options" approach that i like.

Not sure how much more clear I can make this - if they are not giving you an address, IT'S NOT THEIR LISTING.

Of the guys that won't give you an address, 80% are flat out liars with bait and switch and the like, and 20% take you to either no-fee buildings or someone else's listing (either of which you could've and should've found on your own).

If you deal with brokers, only deal with ones where it's their exclusive listing, which means it's the only way you can see/get that apartment.

More generally, you keep complaining how tough this is going to be, and I am not sure why. Is your budget tight for what you're looking for? Or do you have very particular criteria in addition to size (location, and/or otherwise). I am just a bit confused - although there's not a ton of real 4-bedroom apartments for rent in NYC, they do exist, and you just need one...

Not too many people are moving this time of year and we are looking for a real 4 bedroom in a full service building.

Newbuyer99 - I agree with you on the address. The listing in question was very interesting and I eventually found it but only after agreeing to see it with the broker. I asked them why they misrepresented the listing and got no real reply...

Your need for a doorman makes it tough because a lot of the available 4-BR inventory is in townhouses. If Glenwood can't help you, I'm not sure what direct firm could.

I have clients coming in from LA, so I can't help with this right now (and I would charge you a fee so you wouldn't want me to anyway). But I do see some CYOF inventory in the system (where the owner pays the listing broker a one-month fee, and the tenant rep takes what they can get) so I would suggest that maybe you hire a tenant rep at a discount rate and trot around and see that stuff.

You'd be stuck paying a fee, but you can probably find someone who would do it for a flat project fee or a flat hourly that's a lot less than $30K.

ali r.

Alison Rogers
DG Neary Realty

Thanks Ali. We are considering all options, including paying fees which is many of you mentioned might be inevitable.

this is an intersting read, thanks.
I too have been considering a move, with kindergarten looming for my oldest (and #2 not far behind), currently in Columbia area and public schools not an option. Im curious about ppls' best est for rent for a 3-br with decent space (1600 sq-ft ) in a good school zone (UWS or W Village/Soho/Tribeca)? How much do you think that'll run? More than $6K/month?
Cheers,

Yes, unless you (a) find an amazing deal, (b) are ok with a walk-up or (c) are ok with a ground floor apartment. In a good school zone on the UWS, most of the 1200-1400 SF listings we see in doorman buildings are between $5000-6000. So 1600 (real) SF will probably be more than that.

In all honesty, there are not that many 4 Bedroom apartments in full service buildings. What are you looking to pay and where are you looking to live?

I've seen several listings for true 4 bed apartments with that 1600sf size, in full service buildings...which I might add are *paying* the broker fee, thus it doesn't cost you an additional dime. They tend to run anywhere from $8000 to $18,000.

Brokers are there to make your apartment search easy. You don't have to make hundreds of calls on tons of ads that, yes, are often, NOT ALWAYS, bait and switch. You also don't have to make plans with lots of different buildings, or different agents (who will likely be charging a fee on their exclusive) and waste vast amounts of your time, which you apparently don't have as you need to move by Christmas. Brokers are there for a reason, yes some don't know what they're talking about, but some do and if what you want is no fee, they'll show you no fee only, which again means they're getting paid, but the building pays the fee.

Here's one for example:

http://www.coopercooper.com/rentalsearchresultspreview.aspx?webid=47349&si=20&se=RealEstateFieldIndex.Price&so=DESC

newbuyer99
7 days ago
ignore this person
report abuse Not sure how much more clear I can make this - if they are not giving you an address, IT'S NOT THEIR LISTING.

Of the guys that won't give you an address, 80% are flat out liars with bait and switch and the like, and 20% take you to either no-fee buildings or someone else's listing (either of which you could've and should've found on your own).

If you deal with brokers, only deal with ones where it's their exclusive listing, which means it's the only way you can see/get that apartment.

I can't believe you hayseeds need this explained again. There are NO FEE listings that you can't find on your own. Why? Because some landlords (three of the largest in the city) only deal with BROKERS, WHOM THEY GIVE THE LISTINGS TO. I know of a great 4 bedroom apartment on East 91st and Park, with NO FEE in a pre-war elevator building for $9000 per month. But you won't find it unless you go to a brokers website or enlist one of our services. Brokers who won't meet you at the building are stupid and shady. Meet at an office like a gentleman, or at the building.

newbuyer99
7 days ago
ignore this person
report abuse Not sure how much more clear I can make this - if they are not giving you an address, IT'S NOT THEIR LISTING.

Of the guys that won't give you an address, 80% are flat out liars with bait and switch and the like, and 20% take you to either no-fee buildings or someone else's listing (either of which you could've and should've found on your own).

If you deal with brokers, only deal with ones where it's their exclusive listing, which means it's the only way you can see/get that apartment.

I can't believe you hayseeds need this explained again. There are NO FEE listings that you can't find on your own. Why? Because some landlords (three of the largest in the city) only deal with BROKERS, WHOM THEY GIVE THE LISTINGS TO. I know of a great 4 bedroom apartment on East 91st and Park, with NO FEE in a pre-war elevator building for $9000 per month. But you won't find it unless you go to a brokers website or enlist one of our services. Brokers who won't meet you at the building are stupid and shady. Meet at an office like a gentleman, or at the building.

jimhones09: I'm curious about this inventory (no fee, landlords who only deal with brokers). What sort of inventory is this, typically? Stuff that's priced below market or right in line with the market, so the landlords want to use brokers only, in order to manage traffic? Or is it stuff priced above market, so they want to use brokers to make sure the landlord only sees potential renters that are qualified?

three of the largest landlords in nyc, with a spectrum of inventory from super inexpensive but well renovated and located studios in walk up/elevator buildings all the way through to the high end of the market. as an example in the last 3 months one of these landlords has had listins as low as $1550 per month to over $15k per month for a duplex penthouse apartment. And they are established landlords which means they have great pre-war full-service and elevator buildings in the best locations that some of the newer landlords don't. I would say as a group their pricing is lower than companies like Related and Rockrose because they aren't paying staff salaries and benefits to rent their apartments, don't have to maintain websites, etc. That being said, while their is value, I wouldnt say any of them are cheap.

lo - just another thought. do you NEED 4 brs AND a full service bldg? Can you give on one? Might make the search easier. I'm not familiar w/ what full service blgs offer (doormen, porters, laundry, maid service??) but seems like one could overpay for such services. I only mention it b/c you seem concerned about saving money by not wanting to pay a broker fee. From my very limited experience, a good super or porter can serve as an adequate replacement for a doorman (available for deliveries, etc).

nearly impossible to find a good 4 bedroom listing that doesnt come in a doorman listing.

2-family townhouse conversion?

AH: yep. There have been a couple of 4+ bdrm TH apartment listings on the UWS lately. But if they are in good condition and have reasonable layouts, tend to go for at least 9k. There was a park block W 70th/71st street 4br TH apt (top floor, don't remember elevator situation, nice reno, full roof deck) a couple of months ago for under 10k.

If you can accept a wackier layout and an older renovation, I've seen 3+ bdrms go for 6k+. These were all broker listings (Mike S of Fenwick tends to have a few). I've added the + sign because the layouts tend to yield a small, not quite bedroom-sized "den" that can be used as a bedroom.

On the UWS, the no-fee buildings that might have what you're looking for - Tower 67 (145W67), Montana on 87th & Bway. For both buildings, the 4brs tend to be one-off combos. I saw 2 on the market this summer.

Also look at Grand Tier ($$$$) - Bway & 65th.

Tower 67 only shows through brokers. Original poster things he can do it all himself.

*thinks he can do this all himself

That is untrue, JH.

what is untrue?

It is 100% untrue that Tower 67 will rent only through brokers.

I thought you were a DT kinda guy, jh.

go their and ask to apply for an apartment without a broker and see what happens.

jh: in addition to TH's, I was thinking of UWS rental bldgs w/ clasic 7 (3 br + maids rm). Off the top of my head, I know of a few that don't have doormen and others that have doormen but aren't considered full service. Ours is one such bldg and they're actually renovating a 7 as we speak.

I don't know if a C7 counts as a 4br for OP's purposes.

If they did, off the top of my head (if you can get hold of mgmt), then bldgs with C7s (most don't have dmen):

420 WEA, 230W79, Severn (the pair of buildings straddling 72nd & 73rd, NE corner of Ams. - very large apts), bldg on top of Niko's on 76th & Bway, 156W86th (and 130(?) and some others on 86th). A few on RSD, esp. in the 100s & 110s.

I don't know what your budget is but I would bet some of the new devs on the UES (Lucida?) have rentals ($$$) or would be willing to take offers.

Jimhones: when i am wrong, i am wrong. I just called Tower 67's bldg mgt and they said they are no longer showing without brokers. When I asked them if they would pay the broker's fee, they didn't say no and they didn't say yes.

uwsmom - which building is yours? did they rent the classic 7?

Hey lo - they did rent the C7. I was a little careless in my typing above. Our building does not have a doorman. sorry if i misguided you.

We have a building in the pipeline that may fit your needs depending on the date you are looking to move. Currently, we do not have any apartments that meet your needs. There are many large apartments at 184 Kent in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. However, it appears you want to stay in Manhattan.
http://rosenyc.com/No-Fee-Rental/184-Kent.aspx

Also, 88 Leonard in TriBeCa has a number of three bedrooms, some with home office. None are currently available, but you may want to speak with the leasing manager to see if any leases are expiring soon.
http://rosenyc.com/No-Fee-Rental/88-Leonard.aspx

You get what you pay for... The best apts in this city are still rented through brokers. Bottom line you get what you pay for.