Beautifiul 1br Condo in Harlem for $465K

EAST HARLEM??

Unless the "motivated seller" drops the price by another $300K, this sucker will stay on the market forever.

"Amanda, this is a discussion board. Try Craigslist instead."

I thought she put it here because she wanted us to discuss it.

Amanda, I'm sorry, but it ain't gonna happen. You gotta figure something else out.

* Designed by renowned architect Peter L. Gluck
Who the hell is Peter L. Gluck, and why should I care?
* 12 lofts, only two per floor
Meaningless unless we see the size of the building.
* Custom Italian kitchens by Maistri
Again, who the hell is this and why should I care?
* GE Stainless steel appliances
This is pretty much standard issue, and mentioning only raises more questions, like seeing a diner posting a sign "We serve
fresh coffee". Makes you wonder what ISN'T fresh.
* Quartz countertops
*Yawn*
* GE washer/dryer in the residence
It's GE. A solid brand, to be sure, but hardly worth a bullet point.
* Central A/C system in the residence
OK, ONE relevant bullet point so far.
* Radiant floor heading in the bathroom
Relevant bullet point number two.
* High ceiling and floor to ceiling windows
Define "high".
* Continuous white oak flooring
What the hell does "continuous" mean, and how is it better than "interrupted" white oak flooring?
* Common roof deck
Meaningless unless we see how big it is.
* Video intercom security
A given in all newer buildings today. "Fresh Coffee!"
* Wired for high-speed internet
One call to Time Warner gets you this in ANY apartment.
* Tax abatement
If you think this is a "pro", I'd suggest waking up. It's not 2002 anymore.

just as a reference, how does that stack up as an emerging area of harlem?...one of the good areas?...is the pricing typical?

The price is 10% higher than 2007/2008 prices. I would imagine something like $350K, if not $300K, would be more realistic now given how prices have dropped 20-30% since then. That being said, I don't know the area specifically.

the price is 580$ psf...so...obviously way lower than new constr. in manhattan; slightly lower than the best priced new const in wmburg....

350k would mean 437 psf.....is harlem that low for new constr?

It should be.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/484646-condo-232-east-118th-street-east-harlem-new-york

why not go to the source?

amanda?

the dead giveaway is the "continuous" white oak flooring!

Amanda, have you looked at your competition? You should make sure you have an attractive offer since you won't reach as many potential buyers as a FSBO. I am not familiar enough with your area to know. Also, I do hope your marketing strategy isn't limited to spamming the discussion board here and CL. Spend some money for a NYT ad, a website and pretty pictures.

Where do you get 800sq ft from?

assuming it is 800sf...is the ppsf of say 580$ out of line with closed recent comps?...(cherrywood saying what itshould be isnt illuminating really...i could say that about any price on s easy)

If that Streeteasy listing is the same apartment, there is no way that apartment would be 800 sq ft- even if you are using the gross sq feet dimensions (as opposed to usable). At best it would be 700 sq feet, or 550 usable. East Harlem was the last section of Harlem to improve, and even then, it hasn't changed as drastically as Central Harlem or West Harlem neighborhoods. Add to it, that at this point in time East Harlem has a much higher rate of foreclosure/pre-foreclosures- and it acts as an additional discounting mechanism.

The apartment only has 1 closet (albeit a walk-in) and the bedroom is only 8 ft wide. Most of these advertised features in the apartment only add so much to the developers costs and as such shouldn't represent a premium in terms of pricing.

I believe this would be a decent value in the 300-325k range. At the current price point, a buyer would be better off in Central or West Harlem.

oh, and for the record- Home Depot dropped out of East River plaza- and Costco took it's place. In an apartment this size and setup, I am not sure how much value a Costco membership is really worth since you only have the 1 closet for all your storage needs.

PMG -- the apt here is 5B, not 2B.

The 800 sq ft comes from developer, which no doubt included hallways and other common areas. From the floorplan found here, something like 650 sq ft is generously what the outer rectangle comes to:

http://casabravanyc.com

Asking $465K for an apartment that sold for $425K at the absolute top of the market isn't likely to attract much more than ridicule around here. Semerun and Inonada may be right about the low 300s.

The "Accepting all offers" part is interesting, though.

>MTA has begun Phase One of the SECOND AVENUE SUBWAY line!!!

OMG like that's totally exiting!!!

" That being said, I don't know the area specifically."

Let's put it this way: East Harlem makes Williamsburg look like TriBeCa.

does this apartment come with a bullit proof vest and a drug dealer that delivers at 1/2 the price?

come on, at 650 sq ft, stretching it a little, and $465K, that's $715 per sq ft. you can get that in much better neighborhoods today.

Like I said.

$165K would be an appropriate price for this apartment in this neighborhood.

"http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/484646-condo-232-east-118th-street-east-harlem-new-york"

Nice.

So you walk into the "kitchen foyer" ... through your NINE FOOT WIDE living room ... and into your EIGHT FOOT WIDE "bedroom".

Sounds more like a child's playhouse.

I really don't know what to think. Now that I actually looked at this totalled F@@ked up listing you have to ask -- how dumb does this seller/broker think people are.

I am no square foot calculator but this ain't anywhere near 800.

The pricing vs. peak pricing is absurd.

What's the point? What is the point???...is this some kung-fu marketing psychology thing or are they just playing the odds that some diz-brain will pay this without looking into the market.

Amanda, when did it first occur to you that getting 95% financing might be a bit risky? Bravo to the bank for approving it. Err, I mean brava, CasaBrava in Spanish Harlem. Yippee!

Mad House, hehehehe. that developer has a wicked sense of humor

who mentioned 95% financing?..

At least she's not into it for serious money. Amanda, you gotta rethink your strategerey on this...

No comment, Jimmy.

Ok, you're underwater by about 25% under your mortgage. You are a prime candidate for strategic default, if you can stomach the hit to your credit. If not, time to call your bank to do a short sale. If you have financial difficulties, it would be worth it to consult with a bankruptcy lawyer.

Uh..do I take it that acris shows 95% financing?....I didn't catch that. This isn't looking good.

Oops. So, I did find acris. An unfortunate situation. My advice: try to screw the bank (short sale).

The asking rents in this building...around 1800 (so net montly of 1300 or so) sort of scream out some issue in the hood given the size of the apartments.

"Ok, you're underwater by about 25% under your mortgage. You are a prime candidate for strategic default, if you can stomach the hit to your credit. If not, time to call your bank to do a short sale. If you have financial difficulties, it would be worth it to consult with a bankruptcy lawyer."

There may be a relationship with the lender here that makes such a proposition very difficult. If so, I think she's stuck. Even if not, it's too small an amount of money to lose her credit rating over, for better or worse. There is an argument to be made for the fact that at the lower end, 20% below peak is where the market is at right now, so maybe you can clear this at $340K. I wouldn't buy at that price personally, but the lemmings out there probably will. That puts you down $60K from what you owe, not enough in my book to make the implications of bankruptcy worthwhile. Add another $60K in CC debt, now you're getting warmer. As a rule of thumb, I think you want to default on at least a year's gross income, hopefully more? In any case, if you don't have the $60K to bring to the table, you're in a rough spot.

You may be right, inonada. I don't have personal experience with bankruptcy and bad credit, but I have 2 friends who went that route. One did 10 years ago when she was in her early 20's (major medical bills with no health insurance) and the other last year ( job loss with no savings, stupid real estate purchase and massive cc bills.)
From the outside, the second person is now much better off, but she really planned her timing and bill-paying well. The first really toiled for years, couldn't have a bank account for years, but then she was truly broke and didn't plan. What I took from these two is that one shouldn't wait until they are in too deep.

Maly, not knowing anything about the process, I think you are right. Much like the saying "if you're gonna panic, panic first", you gotta be proactive about defaulting. Paying out every last penny you have prior to default, hoping something will save you (e.g., maybe the market will come back), is not planning. The Hail Mary pricing on this place makes me think there's no plan, just empty hope.

It sounds like your second person milked some tens of thousands before going belly-up, which is certainly better than not doing so. E.g., rather than walk away from your home as soon as you cannot make payments or making partial payments, you stay in it without making payments for a couple of years until the foreclosure process boots your ass out. However, the repurcussions of default / bankruptcy can be quite devastating financially, and much of it takes years to come to light.

The one example I am familiar with is a developer who decided to default in the early 90s for various reasons. While the decision "saved" him somewhere in the range of a hundred to a few hundred thousand in the short-run, it crippled his ability to stay in the business he had built so much expertise in and therefore had to move to a different business and start from scratch. Add to that the fact that he missed the craziest-greatest era to be a developer in modern history, when he could've made a killing in RE, and the "saving" of a couple hundred thousand cost him a few million and a comfortable retirement. Even putting his developer status aside, he couldn't enjoy the run-up in RE prices as a homeowner because he couldn't own a home, he couldn't access any credit to leverage any capital squirreled away, etc.

That's why I'm saying that if you gross $100K a year as a young single professional, $60K is not worth a default. $60K is an amount you should be comfortably saving or 401k-ing over 4 years in normal times, so maybe you belt-tighten and take care of it in 3 years. A default follows you for well over a decade. Sure, it disappears from your credit report after 7 years, but it takes another 7 years of normal credit activity to get it back to a point where things appear "normal" to a lender. E.g., imagine you're a lender who sees a 38-year-old with no credit cards or auto loans or any form of credit in their history for the past 7 years visible to you. What do you think? I'd think there was a default 7+ years ago.

Getting back to the apartment, if this sold for roughly 20% off peak (so say 350k), and saying sf = 700sf, then the price would be 500 psf. Is 500 psf typical in harlem?...

Also back to the apartment, it's listed in the condo declaration as 720ft². That's to the inside face of the walls, though, not the usual outside face, so I'd forgive Amanda for jacking it up to 800ft². That lets you compare it to other condos, if it's raw footage you care about.

The problem here is that in a 21'-wide building, you can't get two rooms of a livable width. That's why they were initially marketed as one-room "lofts." The silly idea of trying to get two rooms (each less than 10' wide) out of each apartment must've come later.

Trying to get a feel for ppsf in this area of the city..what makes sense here...?

NWT, the condo declaration notwithstanding, can you take a look and that floorplan and estimate? Best-case, it's 18 feet wide from inside walls and 36 feet long, yielding 650 sq ft.

Right, 650-ish ft².

That'd make an OK-sized one-bedroom if this were a standard postwar layout, say 24' wide on the outside and 27' deep, with LR and BR facing out and kitchen and bath on the interior.

As they are, though, the apartments in this building are competing with big studios. No idea what those are going for up there, but it couldn't possibly be anything like $400K.

It's new construction in East Harlem, so a buyer should pay at least $500 psf x 650 sf = $325k, which would mean total monthly payments before tax deductions of about $2,000. $325k is about 25% off peak value. A problem with this condo is there are very few units,so to the extent someone gets behind on their payments, it has a larger impact on everyone else. Add to that the fact that all of these units traded at peak prices, and it really is a "Mad House".

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sales/east-harlem-manhattan/status:sold|price:400000-500000|beds:1

what is most peculiar to me is that the seller expects a 20% premium on what they paid in jan 08? is the barrio immune to the depreciation seen around the city?

More likely I would think the seller is trying to come as close to break even (net of transaction costs) as possible. Not likely to happen.

I am sure there will be brokers that make the mistake of trying to post their listings on the discussion boards going forward, but this is a cautionary tale. This posting was ripe to be torn apart, but the broker fueled the fire.

It was the owner who set herself up. I was going to say a broker wouldn't have let her price it at $465K, but then saw the listing for #2B downstairs, asking $489K (http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/484646-condo-232-east-118th-street-east-harlem-new-york)

Note that that 2B listing uses the developer's photos of the A line, the one facing the street, and without the silly bedroom wall. The B line faces the yard, and also has a lot-line window overlooking the barb-wired empty lot next door.

That far up in East Harlem = not so nice. Not the worst, but the "best" part of East Harlem is below 106th, especially along 1st, Lexington, or 5th - in terms of "nice" buildings and non-projects, and in terms of UES restaurants that will deliver, etc.

very good point Jason. if u have lived elsewhere in manhattan you will be most upset with the limited amount of restaurants that will deliver here..of course u could eat at the original Patsys everyday

When I lived in central harlem, delivery.com and seamlessweb had maybe 10 places that deliver. Now that I live just 5 blocks up from 96th, its 35. And plenty more do phone-only (grub hub lists like 63.)

what happened to the original post? Can posts be deleted?

apparently so, and thank goodness.

the OP couldn't take reality :-)

Amanda, come back! You invested, albeit very little equity, in a "Mad House" of epic intrigue. We want to see how the saga of the "continuous" white oak floors, em, continues. Good luck in your marketing and keep us posted!