1170 Fifth Avenue

Harlem was up and coming and popular in 2005. ;)

So you think it's mostly the location? I noticed that 96th St. did pretty poorly as well.

96th or 98th, it's still on the fringe, the mason dixon line.
THese areas (border areas) are suffering the most right now. Like north of 23rd by 8th ave and west. Or east of Ave B in the village. These areas not only have to wait for a recovery, but an actual next boom.

I still think there must be something else on this building. Lots of apts for sale too.

If you don't have North and East needles on your compass, then move up there...
Seriously, walk around the few blocks surrounding 1170, even one or two blocks east.
The block on the park, facing the park is nice, though super congested with hospital vehicles, etc.
Guaranteed it's not the neighborhood you want to lay down roots.
The new Sinai tower at 102 & fifth/mad will wreak havoc on traffic from 96th up too.

We looked at 1200 Fifth Ave in 2007 or 06. That was before the renovations were finished. So glad we didn't buy there.

1165 and 1170 5th are both excellent, well managed, and financially sound--great family buildings since forever--there is a reasonable price concession due to the northern location and proximity to mt sinai hospital--wonderful places to live for those who want 5th ave carnegie hill, but cant afford the southerly addresses--what you are looking for is a few blocks south of 1200, 1165 and 1170--but youll need to be willing and able to afford (and qualify) to live there--you get what you pay for and 1165 and 1170 are great value

Ubottom, if 1170 is well managed and financially sound, how do you explain this price decline? Classic 9 going from $4.7 in 2005 to $3.5 in 2009/2010? This is a 20% decline from 05 levels.

what does a price decline like that that have to do with the soundness of the coop??
they have excellent reserves, and req 50% down, with good add'l assets and income..
and prices down 15-25% from peak is consistent with indexes..
and your comp is likely flawed--prob something as basic as a gut reno vs a triple-mint, or a big floor differential..
you sound ignorant..are you sure you'd even qualify to buy here?? Youll need 1.750mm down, 1.75mm in liquid assets after down, and minimum family income of 600K to even get in front of the board..that's how financially sound youll need to be to join the owner of these bldgs

Ubottom, to buy a $3.5mm plus apt with an income of only $600K sounds financially unwise. To me that doesn't sound like a strong building. And this is not 15-25% down from peak, rather 20% down from 2005 prices... Please don't assume anything about my finances without knowing me.

Did you read the whole post? You're only allowed to finance up to 50% AND you are required to have that much in liquid assets anyway.
I don't know anything about this coop, but the financing and asset requirements certainly would make for a very stable building, financially.
Prices are down from peak most everywhere, but the drops are steeper in formerly up-and-coming areas (yes, like Harlem), and less so in super-prime areas.

no assumption necessary re your reading skills and knowledge of coop finance

Ubottom, my readings skills are just fine. The building is down way more than the overall market and it made me question whether there is a reason behind it. Maybe it is really the Harlem fact. I still feel that a $600K income does not support the purchase of an apt in that price range. My coop has a 60% down requirement and we would certainly not approve someone for a Classic 7/8/9 with that kind of income.

again your comments are telling of your lack of knowledge re coop finance

income is the least relevant component of a coop applicants financial package--some, in fact, have no earned income--they just buy their place for cash and show huge liquid assets, such that they are clearly capable of carrying their apt with no potential for financial difficulty

and a lot of income with weak assets would concern a coop board--speaks either of volatile income, or a real spendthrift

trades at 1165 and 1170 fifth ave are happening at concessions consistent with those of the last, at least, 25 years

whatever

1170 is a great building. I lived there for years.

ubottom: you write "income is the least relevant component of a coop applicants financial package...." As a general principle this is not correct. Most coops emphasize steady income as a key factor in admission. A large savings reserve is nice, but a steady job and income are nicer. If you have $750,000 in stocks, bonds and other assets but only $50,000 in income from a part time job, you are not a good candidate for admission in many coops for say a one bedroom. If you earn $300,000 a year and have $250,000 in assets, you are an excellent candidate for that same one bedroom in most coops.

If you are referring to the ethereal realms of elite Park Avenue or Fifth Avenue buildings, however, then I agree. Networth takes on an entirely different level of importance and earned income may be less emphasized. The calculus shifts because the uber-wealthy often draw on a stream of resources that have nothing to do with earned income. Certainly a $50,000,000 trust would mean a lot to a board in such a building. But for ordinary folk in the majority of coops, there are no such trusts. There is earned income, investments, some savings. Of these, income is paramount.

Yikes - did you grow up in this building by any chance? I ask b/c (1) Ubottom seems to have good info on the building; and (2) this was the New York address of the family that housed me one summer in London (their townhouse in London was right in the middle of Knightsbridge); they were mortified that a midwestern family such as mine had someone made it into their milieu, and I recall your commenting at one point on my inferior pedigree and mentioning that you grew up on 5th Avenue. I love the family that housed me that summer to death, but they are such snobs that they started sanctioning marrying among cousins (albeit distance ones) a few generations ago. I know you are not one of them because they would never send their daughter to Stanford - too much loyalty to Harvard and Yale.

my kids don't "send" well--they do as they choose--fortunately, so far, they chosen well

didnt grow up in 1170--friends did, none with a townhouse in kbridge

Ubottom seems to have the best handle on this situation. 1170 has been a well-known, high quality family co-op for years and years. Especially now that Central Park in that area has been invested in heavily and Fifth Avenue north of the hospital is being developed, this building offers great value relative to those co-ops a few blocks south. The block is excellent as well. 1165 is a twin of 1170 with similar attributes (and perhaps more recent investment) and St Bernards is on the block as well. The reason behind the decline in value is most probably linked to the condition of the units in question and nothing more - the apples and oranges comment is likely spot on.

Bring back Ubottom!