Chelsea Mews

search for the previous threads on this building.

The maintenance has been high here since the J-51 tax abatement expired in the 1990s. Apartment prices have always reflected this in this building--you get more apartment at lower cost but with higher maintenance. The building is extremely well-kept, has an excellent small staff, and is generally managed responsibly. There was a problematic board for a brief time several years ago and its handling of facade work for Local Law 11 compliance was abysmal and costly. In the end, though, the facade was repaired and the terra cotta detailing preserved; the work was very extensive and unlikely to be required again for a very long time. At the same time the interior halls were renovated which added to the expense. That board was drummed out of office and the building returned to traditional, pleasant, relatively conservative management. The lobby is now being renovated (completion by late summer).

If you like the space, the building could work for you. The one bedrooms are different--in a good way--with the bonus of an added loft in many for storage or sleeping a guest. The studios also are a bit different than typical studios because of the sleeping lofts freeing up so much space below. From the 8th floor or so on up you get quite good views of the ESB and Chelsea rooftops from the north side. 23rd St is obviously not a quiet side street, but on the higher floors the noise is manageable and on lower floor you may consider sound proof windows if it gets to you--it is better than 2nd Ave though and not at all unbearable. The original kitchens and baths are a wreck by now in all apartments and need to be replaced if not already addressed by an owner. Two bedrooms are okay, but nothing special, imo, and the maintenance really begins to stand out on those units. Combined units here make very little sense since the resulting layouts are compromised and maintenance extraordinary by any standards. One such combo actually had to be re-divided before buyer's emerged some years ago.

If buying here, just be very careful not to over-improve the apartment and to figure reno costs into the purchase price. The likelihood of appreciation of the units is handicapped by the maintenance and this will never change. There are limits to what apts are worth primarily as a result of the very high maintenance. Apt 8/9K, for example, is a high-end reno but it will be interesting to see if the seller can recoup the reno costs of what could easily have been $250,000-$300,000.

I see that two listings there just entered contract. One is a one bedroom 11th floor unit (the ceilings are 12.5 feet high so it is really equal to about the 14th floor of most buildings) with great ESB views, nice space and light. http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/516539-coop-148-west-23rd-street-chelsea-new-york?email=true It represents the best of this building. Someone who can only afford a modest amount down payment but whose budget provides enough monthly income to pay the high maintenance. I think this unit represents a very decent value.

A first floor combined unit also recently went to contract. I don't think it is nearly as appealing. It is a very large amount of space for the money, but it is also 1/2 underground, a bit oddly configured, has no views or especially good light, and has a staggering maintenance of over $3000 for a two bedroom home.

The maintenance on the individual apartments is not that high - it is skewed by the recent sale of combined apartments (which carry very high maintenance) and apartments with outdoor space (which carry a higher maintenance). If you look at standard 1BR or Loft/Studios in Chelsea Mews, the maintenance levels are not out of the ordinary for a full-service Chelsea building ($1,000 for a loft, $1,300 for a 1BR).

In terms of the noise on the 23rd Street side of the building, the installation about 10 years ago of brand new double-pane soundproofed windows dramatically reduced the noise levels. It's not quiet like a side-street, but it is much quieter than what anyone living on a major Avenue experiences every day.

I agree--noise is not really an issue even on the 23rd St side. Less so as you go up, too. Whatever noise there is, you get used to it quickly.

But as for maintenance, let's not deceive ourselves. If it is "not that high" then these apartments sell at an incomprehensibly low price point given the very decent square footage, soaring ceilings, "bonus" lofts, many ESB views and ample closets. Honestly, keeping the maintenance in check has been a perennial concern since the tax abatement expired here in the 90s. Refinancing helped a bit, but the underlying mortgage is substantial and there's little to be done about that. For one bedrooms on the 4th floor, maintenance is now over $1400. As you go up in the same lines, it can hit $1800+ by the time you get to the 12th floor--these are figures more in keeping with prime GV buildings around Washington Square than a grittier area in Chelsea.

As I said months ago, if you can swing the maintenance and not over-improve the units, this is a great contender for you if you want space in Chelsea. The people are wonderful, the board is reasonable, the physical plant is very well maintained (horribly expensive capital facade project is done and no other major capital improvements are looming from what I hear), and the apartments are huge for the money. 23rd St ain't pretty, but it is a great location for access to subways, Chelsea is still vibrant as a neighborhood, and it is relatively safe.

Not sure why this thread was revived (particularly because ChelseaMewsRes's characterization of the maintenance is not really accurate, but I hope anyone reading here finds the info useful.

Also, FYI: there is an assessment in place I believe to pay for reno to the lobby.

This is a great building. While the maint is a touch higher than some other buildings there are some factors that anyone whould know.
The maintenance here has been extremely stable over the long term. In the entire 27 year history of the coop it has gone up just over 50%...very much lower than the average prewar.
It is a loft building with high cielings so there is a larger area to heat, more facade etc per unit to maintain, etc.
The building has completed almost every project that comes up: An Extensive Facade/Pointing project that took care to maintain the beautiful terra cotta and as they did a very solid high end job should py dividends for many years to come (No sloppy patchwork job here), Windows Replaced with High Quality Silencing Thermopane type, Halls and Lobby Renovated, Roof & Elevators. The internal plumbing. Electric et dates from 1984 though individual units may have upgraded since.
Very high owner occupancy and all but one unit is sold (Exactly what banks love to see) insures you will have no hinderances financing.
I live on 23rd Street and don't find this area 'grittier' at all; and maintenance has nothing to do with location for the most part (Except for some impact on taxes but not much difference between GV and Chelsea on that)
As one of the only Coop DM Loft Buildings in Chelsea this is a good bet for those who are not fixated on Condos with their much higher $/SF.
Solid Financials, Good Reserves too, Decent Board, Great Staff and a Super who stays on top of things and is very responsive.
I would buy here in a second if one of the particular units I want would come on the market.
Anyone who needs further information can feel free to call me at my office.
Rich Hamilton
Halstead
212.381.6548

Richard, full disclosure always helps: as an agent who has repped many sellers in this building for a long time, you personally stand to financially gain from sales at higher prices (or any prices frankly) in the building. And the one you rep now isn't moving (the combined units don't really reconfigure that well) and it took forever to move 11A which you repped recently. I'm not challenging most of what you say, but in truth you've struggled with maintaining prices in the building in the past years as the RE market has taken a bit of a beating. It makes sales tougher. Also, you have not always been above shading things a little bit such as advertising "fireplaces" in various units you've repped in the past without mentioning that they are barred from use in the building and are essentially just ornaments. I believe you've been taken to the wood shed for that a couple of times.

Maintenance may be "stable." But it is undeniably on the very higher end of the scale. Not outside the scale, but toward the high end. In addition, the special assessments have been pretty spectacular at times. Fortunately, I don't think the building has any looming capital projects of significance. And the new lobby will be quite a plus given how dowdy and dated the old one had become. From the street it looks like it is almost finished. New buyers will unquestionably benefit from all the work done in the building over the last decade. And you are quite right that the staff is superb from what I could tell.

The boards have always been quite reasonable and responsible too from what I know, with the exception of one brief exceptional board. The benefit of many long time residents who care about the building and community is also a plus. Layouts are good, square footage is wisely put to use with little wasted space inside the units, and the soaring ceilings are great.

But the underlying debt is a weight around the building's neck that there is no denying. It grew awfully during the facade project started under an incompetent rogue board that sucked and was voted out after a brief, atypical period of miserable stewardship based on the accounts of several residents.

Also, don't tell me 23rd St isn't gritty. Please. It isn't exactly full of adorable shops, and pretty as a postcard. Especially between 5th Ave to 7th Ave. But it is convenient to lots of transportation and if you like Chelsea, you are in the heart of it here--kind of the aorta of it actually. Overall, this is a building to consider if location is right, you want something a little "special" in terms of layouts, you prefer a lower purchase price in exchange for higher maintenance. And with prices having slipped about 15%-20% there since 2007, the time may be right for some people...

Kylewest, you are always the voice of reason and I really appreciate your posts. I've seen some of the apartments in Chelsea Mews and found a few to be interesting but to me the negatives have typically outweighed the positives. But here's one thing that I'm wary of in Chelsea - overdevelopment. In particular, for the Chelsea Mews apartments that face south, the buildings on 22nd street are low and would seem to be susceptible to razing and constructing a spiffy new condo. Actually, right in back of Chelsea Mews on 22nd street there's a homeless shelter and when the economy gets better I can just imagine that a developer would cough up some bucks to have the homeless shelter relocate to make way for luxury condos. Were that to happen it would really jeopardize the light and views of those south-facing Chelsea Mews apartments, not to mention their value. Don't know, Kylewest, if you've ever considered the risk of that happening?

kyle, why don't you boil down your 5 paragraphs into one sentence, something like "Richard, you are a frequent broker for this building and full of shit"

@FormerRenter: I think buyer's should always investigate how their views could be impacted. When I bought a few years ago, I checked out the air rights of the buildings across from me and figured out what the worst case scenario would be. In the end, it wouldn't be great, but I could live with a taller building across from me because I figured out the I could still see sky and to the left and right would be protected.

For the Mews, there was a lot of development on 22nd Street behind it in the last decade. I do not know if some of that construction involved buying air rights of the remaining undeveloped lots like the shelter you mention. Actually, it isn't a homeless shelter--it is a residence for people with some class of mental illnesses that has traditionally involved a rather docile, harmless, unremarkable group of tenants. Fwiw, I think it is a non-factor to consider in terms of impact on quality of life for neighbors as it currently exists.

But, while the south-facing units are quieter I imagine, I am more impressed by the north facing, higher floor apartments, anyway. Love those Empire State Building views, good light for north-facing units because of how wide 23rd Street is, and the surprising lack of noise issues (relatively new windows are quite good). The nearly 12' high ceilings have a great "wow" factor.

kylewest - would love to ask you a few questions regarding a potential purchase. Can i contact you?

Thanks.

kamilalavi, i missed your post. if you post your email, i will gladly email you back my own address.

Kyleeest. I know it has been a few years since you made your negative post of me, but I don't often read these discussion panels and just saw it.
I take great exception to your personal attack on me, in my post I identified myself as being an agent as I listed the agency I was affiliated with at the time. And cursory glance would show that I had sold many units in the building.
As far as fireplaces go...there are fireplaces and there are wood burning fireplaces, I was always clear that they did not work, even more I specifically kept information on gel fuel fireplace inserts to show potential buyers how they could actually have a fire using those (They require no ventilation). The building actually developed a policy for the use of those. I think they called them bio fuel but it is the same thing. One board member had overheard me talking about them as they passed by the door, at first they thought I had said you could have regular fires, I wrote an extensive letter with information on what I was referring to...they had not heard my full discussion, so your claim of being taken to "the wood shed" is a wild overstatement and personally insulting to my integrity. Funny that you should make such a claim, that you post so much on Streeteasy makes me wonder...over 4400 posts? Are you an agent? Yes when I sell an apartment I gain financially from that.
As far as 11A went, it had distinctive finishes that were not to everyone's taste, and an unrenovated kitchen. I don't go into owners specifics and my discussions with them. But we did have a deal but the owners changed their mind about selling. Nice people. As I understand they still own it.
I don't know what other unit you refer to so I cannot really address that. I extensively comp every listing I work with, make adjustments based on many factors, I then have discussions with the owners and make reccomendations. Those reccomendation s are not always followed. I have turned down at least 100 listings over the years for reasons ranging from price, to owners temperament and everything in between.
But do not ever question my honesty. I disclose everything I can, get specific answers to the few questions I am not sure of, I do not want unhappy buyers. There is a reason that in over 25 years doing this I have only had 4 Coop board rejections for sales...and I would be the first to say those four deserved it--mostly by not being forthcoming or able to properly back up their financials. I have only had one rental board rejection, they had misrepresented their use for the apt.

Oh Richard!