My great grandmother is living in an apt that is rent controlled. She has lived there for over 30 years. Due to her age, it's difficult given that there are no elevators in the building and the conditions are sub par (old walk up that has not really been well maintained by management). Has anyone heard of a case where the landlord would possibly pay some sort of incentive payment for her to move... [more]
My great grandmother is living in an apt that is rent controlled. She has lived there for over 30 years. Due to her age, it's difficult given that there are no elevators in the building and the conditions are sub par (old walk up that has not really been well maintained by management).
Has anyone heard of a case where the landlord would possibly pay some sort of incentive payment for her to move out (possibly to live with another family member)? Since the landlord would be able to charge a hefty increase to the rent (market rate), would anyone have suggestions on how to approach this matter and present the case that she can say she will be willing to move out if she was offered some kind of incentive payment / stipend / (whatever the term may be, if any)? Also, has this been done before?
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Response by sledgehammer
over 15 years ago
Posts: 899
Member since: Mar 2009
Give me the details of the apt,and if it's cheap and if i like it, i'll give your grand ma a lot of cash to legally sublet the apt from her and then take over the lease under my name....
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Response by jason10006
over 15 years ago
Posts: 5257
Member since: Jan 2009
I am sure TOP could get more than a grand
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Response by Apt_Boy
over 15 years ago
Posts: 675
Member since: Apr 2008
So, your great grandmother, who most likely only has a few years left in her, can't walk up the stairs in her run down apartment, and you are here looking how to get a few bucks out of the landlord instead of just taking care of her?
What if the landlord doesn't play-ball, you going to leave her there to rot until she dies? You, great grandchild, should be asshamed of yourself
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Response by tenemental
over 15 years ago
Posts: 1282
Member since: Sep 2007
It's called a buyout, and it's not at all uncommon. In cases of rent stabilization, the rent might be close to market already so there's little incentive to the landlord, especially if the tenant has been timely w/ payments and otherwise easy to deal with.
In the much rarer case of rent control, or in a long-term stabilized situation where there's been no vacancy or renovation increase, there is a huge incentive to the LL. I've heard of different formulas used, but they usually go along the lines of something like: market rent - regulated rent x 36. In other words, the buyout is the equivalent of three years difference in rent. Depending on the desirability of the apt (is it a studio facing an airshaft or a 3br overlooking a garden?) this can get into 5-figures easily, and 6-figure buyouts are not unheard of.
Are you sure the LL hasn't contacted Grandma in the past w/ an offer? I wouldn't be surprised if he had. Obviously, if you approach him you start negotiations on weaker footing. If you google "rent controlled buyout" and "rent stabilized buyout" you'll get plenty of info. There are tenant lawyers and other kinds of advocates who may be helpful, but may also just be a waste of money. Keep in mind though, if there's no family member in line to take over the apt, the LL might just be "waiting things out" (apologies if that sounds insensitive).
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Response by printer
over 15 years ago
Posts: 1219
Member since: Jan 2008
apt_boy - that's harsh - maybe he's thinking of a way to get her some money that she can use to make her final years more comfortable. A rent-controlled apartment is an asset, and he is seeing if he can monetize it for her.
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Response by tenemental
over 15 years ago
Posts: 1282
Member since: Sep 2007
Just rereading your post. "(old walk up that has not really been well maintained by management)" sounds like the LL either can't or won't invest much money in the building, and that rents even at market rate won't be astronomically high, so we're probably talking about the lower end of the scale that I mentioned, and/or a stubborn LL who'd rather wait and see if anyone in the family really is looking to take it over before making an offer.
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Response by notadmin
over 15 years ago
Posts: 3835
Member since: Jul 2008
exactly tenemental, your formula doesn't seem to apply here as the landlord will need to renovate the place in order to get a rent closer to mkt rate. those buildings in general are not in a desirable area either.
heard a lady that has done it, called the landlord herself to see if they were interested in her moving. they called her back a day later offering about $3,000 plus all moving expenses. she took it right away with a smile.
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Response by Apt_Boy
over 15 years ago
Posts: 675
Member since: Apr 2008
Printer- I thought that rent controlled apts are their for the good of the people, now they are an asset of the tenant, not the landlord, that's rich...and it is not harsh, if the great grandchild really cared about the old lady, he/she would have either moved her out years ago or at least paid to renovate the apt themselves so it is more liveable. In any event this great grandchild is not so great
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Response by tenemental
over 15 years ago
Posts: 1282
Member since: Sep 2007
The renovation's a given in these cases. It is by no means an exclusion to a buyout. I've seen a number of cheap (low 5-figure) renos done to destabilized apartments, and they look fine for the purposes of luring (likely short-term) renters. Whether they hold up or not is another story, but not the OP's concern.
If the controlled rent is $200 and market is $2500, the reno could be paid for with the first year's difference, leaving plenty of room for Grandma to pocket 5-figures while the LL looks forward to a future of improved revenue. That's what I meant by "lower end of my scale." No way $3k is the limit for a 30-year rent controlled tenant.
I have a friend w/ parents-in-law paying around $1200/mo for a 3br on Park Ave. The East Village sees old units leave regulation all the time. Really no way to know the desirability of the area from the OP.
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Response by notadmin
over 15 years ago
Posts: 3835
Member since: Jul 2008
> If the controlled rent is $200 and market is $2500, the reno could be paid for with the first year's difference, leaving plenty of room for Grandma to pocket 5-figures while the LL looks forward to a future of improved revenue. That's what I meant by "lower end of my scale." No way $3k is the limit for a 30-year rent controlled tenant.
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Remember that grandma is going to have to move anyway and might not live the 4 years of losses you are calculating (3 to give her the incentive to move out and 1 for renovations). So in this case, I'm not that sure that the landlord will pay even what my acquaintance received (she did have social security for back pain, but could walk just fine and her previous building had an elevator).
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Response by notadmin
over 15 years ago
Posts: 3835
Member since: Jul 2008
what i mean is that i wouldn't be surprised if the payout for a walkout with an elderly is way much lower than in a building with elevator.
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Response by jason10006
over 15 years ago
Posts: 5257
Member since: Jan 2009
I agree that TOP is sleezy, but hey if it was my grandma Id help her get the money too! I would make out with a horse for $20, I am that cheap.
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Response by printer
over 15 years ago
Posts: 1219
Member since: Jan 2008
If gaining the maximum buyout is really the goal, I would think the 1st step would be to establish some type of continuation rights for the rent controlled place. I don't know the rules, something like a family member has to be on it for a certain period of time. If it is a much younger family member, you'd have substantially greater leverage vs. the landlord. of course, you'd have to be prepared if he called your bluff.
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Response by tenemental
over 15 years ago
Posts: 1282
Member since: Sep 2007
notadmin, like I said, "if there's no family member in line to take over the apt, the LL might just be "waiting things out," so if the OP doesn't have a family member looking to take over the lease, or a will to bluff the landlord that there is one, I agree, he's in a limited position to negotiate. This could go any number of ways, I just don't think the conditions stated in the OP set a cap at 4-figures.
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Response by julia
over 15 years ago
Posts: 2841
Member since: Feb 2007
if LL knows how old and frail your relative is he just might wait her out...good luck and it's great that she can still make it up those stairs, she's probably in great shape.
Give me the details of the apt,and if it's cheap and if i like it, i'll give your grand ma a lot of cash to legally sublet the apt from her and then take over the lease under my name....
I am sure TOP could get more than a grand
So, your great grandmother, who most likely only has a few years left in her, can't walk up the stairs in her run down apartment, and you are here looking how to get a few bucks out of the landlord instead of just taking care of her?
What if the landlord doesn't play-ball, you going to leave her there to rot until she dies? You, great grandchild, should be asshamed of yourself
It's called a buyout, and it's not at all uncommon. In cases of rent stabilization, the rent might be close to market already so there's little incentive to the landlord, especially if the tenant has been timely w/ payments and otherwise easy to deal with.
In the much rarer case of rent control, or in a long-term stabilized situation where there's been no vacancy or renovation increase, there is a huge incentive to the LL. I've heard of different formulas used, but they usually go along the lines of something like: market rent - regulated rent x 36. In other words, the buyout is the equivalent of three years difference in rent. Depending on the desirability of the apt (is it a studio facing an airshaft or a 3br overlooking a garden?) this can get into 5-figures easily, and 6-figure buyouts are not unheard of.
Are you sure the LL hasn't contacted Grandma in the past w/ an offer? I wouldn't be surprised if he had. Obviously, if you approach him you start negotiations on weaker footing. If you google "rent controlled buyout" and "rent stabilized buyout" you'll get plenty of info. There are tenant lawyers and other kinds of advocates who may be helpful, but may also just be a waste of money. Keep in mind though, if there's no family member in line to take over the apt, the LL might just be "waiting things out" (apologies if that sounds insensitive).
apt_boy - that's harsh - maybe he's thinking of a way to get her some money that she can use to make her final years more comfortable. A rent-controlled apartment is an asset, and he is seeing if he can monetize it for her.
Just rereading your post. "(old walk up that has not really been well maintained by management)" sounds like the LL either can't or won't invest much money in the building, and that rents even at market rate won't be astronomically high, so we're probably talking about the lower end of the scale that I mentioned, and/or a stubborn LL who'd rather wait and see if anyone in the family really is looking to take it over before making an offer.
exactly tenemental, your formula doesn't seem to apply here as the landlord will need to renovate the place in order to get a rent closer to mkt rate. those buildings in general are not in a desirable area either.
heard a lady that has done it, called the landlord herself to see if they were interested in her moving. they called her back a day later offering about $3,000 plus all moving expenses. she took it right away with a smile.
Printer- I thought that rent controlled apts are their for the good of the people, now they are an asset of the tenant, not the landlord, that's rich...and it is not harsh, if the great grandchild really cared about the old lady, he/she would have either moved her out years ago or at least paid to renovate the apt themselves so it is more liveable. In any event this great grandchild is not so great
The renovation's a given in these cases. It is by no means an exclusion to a buyout. I've seen a number of cheap (low 5-figure) renos done to destabilized apartments, and they look fine for the purposes of luring (likely short-term) renters. Whether they hold up or not is another story, but not the OP's concern.
If the controlled rent is $200 and market is $2500, the reno could be paid for with the first year's difference, leaving plenty of room for Grandma to pocket 5-figures while the LL looks forward to a future of improved revenue. That's what I meant by "lower end of my scale." No way $3k is the limit for a 30-year rent controlled tenant.
I have a friend w/ parents-in-law paying around $1200/mo for a 3br on Park Ave. The East Village sees old units leave regulation all the time. Really no way to know the desirability of the area from the OP.
> If the controlled rent is $200 and market is $2500, the reno could be paid for with the first year's difference, leaving plenty of room for Grandma to pocket 5-figures while the LL looks forward to a future of improved revenue. That's what I meant by "lower end of my scale." No way $3k is the limit for a 30-year rent controlled tenant.
----------
Remember that grandma is going to have to move anyway and might not live the 4 years of losses you are calculating (3 to give her the incentive to move out and 1 for renovations). So in this case, I'm not that sure that the landlord will pay even what my acquaintance received (she did have social security for back pain, but could walk just fine and her previous building had an elevator).
what i mean is that i wouldn't be surprised if the payout for a walkout with an elderly is way much lower than in a building with elevator.
I agree that TOP is sleezy, but hey if it was my grandma Id help her get the money too! I would make out with a horse for $20, I am that cheap.
If gaining the maximum buyout is really the goal, I would think the 1st step would be to establish some type of continuation rights for the rent controlled place. I don't know the rules, something like a family member has to be on it for a certain period of time. If it is a much younger family member, you'd have substantially greater leverage vs. the landlord. of course, you'd have to be prepared if he called your bluff.
notadmin, like I said, "if there's no family member in line to take over the apt, the LL might just be "waiting things out," so if the OP doesn't have a family member looking to take over the lease, or a will to bluff the landlord that there is one, I agree, he's in a limited position to negotiate. This could go any number of ways, I just don't think the conditions stated in the OP set a cap at 4-figures.
if LL knows how old and frail your relative is he just might wait her out...good luck and it's great that she can still make it up those stairs, she's probably in great shape.