If pay cash for co-op, still need board approval?

Probably not

buy a sponsor unit. otherwise, no.

no

Nope.

In mine, you do. And, we're a very laid-back board... you'd have to be pretty screwed-up to be a cash buyer and not pass the board in my building, though.

Board interview is as much to determine your financial wherewithal to own in the building as to figure out if you would be the type of neighbor they will welcome. I have never heard of a person getting to skip the board process. Exception may be if you already live in the building as an owner and are changing apartments.

When a rental building converts, sometimes the sponsors are given the right to skip board approval on the subsequent resale of the apartments they own. Sponsor rights vis-a-vis a building vary by building, because each building has a different offering plan, but generally these apartments will be advertised as "sponsor apartments/no board approval"!

You will generally pay a premium for the right to skip the board process, though.

This is a pretty recent thing; twenty years ago sponsor units actually traded at a discount because they were generally unrenovated. Then I guess a mania for privacy set in.

If you're otherwise interested in a co-op unit and just want help with the board, I and my firm do flat-fee board consulting.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty
ali [at] dgneary [dot] com

It's so cute how people try to avoid the board approval process.

Yes cause all the old aged fkers that are on the boards were crack addicts in the 80's where their current income would allow them to live in a walk up in flushing. Nutin more than good good bubble timing. The good news they are all dying out. Die fking board member die!!!!!

I've heard of boards rejecting ppl cause they were 'too' successful. Seriously, a board member interviewing the same 'ethnic' group thought it would be unwelcome to have a lawyer/doctor/phd from an ivy that would put their own 'accomplishments' in jeopardy. Is it true ppl?

why even bother. yes I understand why the coop board screening process exists, but as someone who went through it a 15 years ago, I would never do it again. Buy a condo instead of shares in some corporation that you have to fight to get into and fight to get out of. At least in a condo you will only be judged financially, and if you want you can rent your asset.

gcondo, I agree 100%. But so many nice apartments are co-ops! I'm repulsed at the idea of revealing my financial life to a bunch of strangers; it makes me sick. I have nothing to hide, but my personal and financial life are nobody's business as long as I can pay for the apartment. And the fact that it's considered so normal to do this is completely alien to me. Maybe it's because I grew up in another country. I also had my identity stolen twice in the last 5 years, despite my hypervigilance and care. The thieves were able to debit large amounts of money from my checking account, aside from doing other damage. It was eventually resolved, but has made me even more loathe to disclose any kind of personal information.

I've been through 3 coop board interviews in 3 buildings. I didn't/don't see it as a big deal. They looked at tax returns, accounts, asked some innocuous questions, and that was that. Packets were shredded afterward.

I have also sat on boards. The focus was always financial wherewithal of the person we were about to invite to share in collective ownership of our largest asset. A handful of times extraneous issues came up. Hypothetically, I do not want the publisher of raunchy porn living nextdoor. I don't want drug addled "models" coming and going from such a person's apartment, meth parties, drama of marginal lives colliding with my own. In a condo I'd have to suck it up and deal with it. Not in a coop.

I've also been through 3 board interviews, and they pretty much just wanted the same info as the bank. Granted, none of these were "swanky" buildings, but I guess if you choose to live in one of those buildings, that's par for the course. I don't know why people get so bent out of shape about meeting the board.

You still have to show that you are able to pay the monthly maint.

Absolutely! As a potential buyer who was rejected by a board despite a cash purchase (decided that they are no longer in the mood for pied a terres), I can tell you that a cash deal means squat.

It isn't just about financial life at this point. I have two anecdotal stories -- one from a colleague in my office, one from a mortgage broker I work with -- about deals that were killed by Facebook content.

So if your privacy is really that important to you, then yes, I'd buy a condo.

As far as identity theft though -- it has happened to me too, and it stinks, but it is more and more a fact of modern life. Take heart in the fact that when it happens, it doesn't tend to happen through the co-op process. I deal with a lot of Hollywood people (Emmy winners etc.) and we so far have not had any problems involving the release of financial material through boards.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

If you think a coop interview is just about financials, think again. Do you think if NYCMatt gets a funny feeling about someone based on nothing, that he will vote "yes?". Also, a condo board will generally require financial disclosure and references - but not a "meeting".

As far as a coop board being able to weed out "undesirables" like the ones described above ("Hypothetically, I do not want the publisher of raunchy porn living nextdoor. I don't want drug addled "models" coming and going from such a person's apartment, meth parties, drama of marginal lives colliding with my own. In a condo I'd have to suck it up and deal with it. Not in a coop. ") - where does it stop then? Define raunchy, for example. For which level of porn are you alright with its publisher being your neighbor. What is porn anyway? As far as I can tell, condos do not allow meth parties either.

This NY Magazine article from 1985 is still relevant: "Co-op Tyranny: How the Board of Directors Rule the Roost." The stories are horrifying. Too bad so many buildings are co-ops. BTW, to those saying that condos also require financial info, not necessarily true. I recently bought in a pre-war condo and I did not have to disclose ANY financial information. Nothing at all. Nobody asked a thing. Simple transaction.

http://tinyurl.com/24lcb9e

west12th - did you buy a sponsor unit?

So many threads on coop v condo which is good to educate, but there is no one-size-fits-all. For many, myself included, coop living is preferable. The example I give above is extreme but not made up. There are less extreme examples. I don't like men who beat their girlfriends and get orders of protection issued against them along with any criminal convictions. Actually, I don't care for criminals at all and do not wish to live with them or their visits by NYS parole or probation officers. I dislike the idea of a neighbor who needs body guards because of actual threats or dangers to them which could subject the building and other residents to risk. I don't like kids who live off trusts or their parents' money because they have no stake in the building being a nice place to live and enhancing apartment value. I do not love large dogs, but tolerate them, although multiple large dogs like Danes or drooly types squeezing into the elevator with me and drooling on my suit are undesireable and apologies from owners do not pay for the dry cleaning or remove the drool I have to then get through the rest of the day with on my pants. In a coop, you have control over these things. In a condo, you do not. I credit the coop process for my building being one of great stability, no transcients, kind and quiet and considerate neighbors, and lacking in drama. Sharing my check book ledger and tax returns was pretty meanlingless and insignificant "imposition" if it could be called that. So no, coops are not for everyone (and boy, do some people have strong opinions on that), but they are well-suited for others. Vive la difference.

The boards got to meet you.
What if your one of those 'OILY' Cuomo types?

falco - what does that mean?

falcogold1 was mimicking a traditional New York accent ... he means that some coops hate the kind of people who wake up too early in the morning, and really who can blame them for hating?

I live in a seven-unit brownstone. I am lucky that I live in a top-floor apartment with basically no neighbors since our building is taller than those around it.

But our building's financial health and our residents' mental health depends on who lives in the building. We all live in very close proximity to one another, and our budget depends on everyone paying each month. In a building this small, all it takes is one person not paying maintenance, one person defaulting on their mortgage, or one person who wants to party until 4 a.m. every night to create complete disaster for the rest of us.

I would think long and hard before buying into a small building that WASN'T a co-op. In a larger building, the difference wouldn't matter so much.

The difference wouldn't matter so much, lad, so long as the 4am partier wasn't on your floor I suppose. And while a defaulting shareholder in a 100 unit building might not cause monthly expenses for others to go up 18%, even $25 is incredibly annoying and worth trying to avoid. Of course, anyone defaulting on maintenance requires the building to spend on legal fees, creates tension and is unpleasant all around. Large or small, control over who livees in your building can be a very good thing. I often wonder if people who get most upset by coops are those who have not worked and played well with others in the past and were on the receiving end of what happens when you are not a good neighbor in a coop.

"I often wonder if people who get most upset by coops are those who have not worked and played well with others in the past and were on the receiving end of what happens when you are not a good neighbor in a coop."

Not necessarily so, kylewest. You see, I'm probably the best kind of neighbor you could ever want.
Quiet, friendly, helpful, care about my building and property, and extremely considerate (to a fault, I've been told). BUT, I absolutely hate the idea of anyone, who isn't my accountant, knowing my net worth, my income, and my assets. I think it's unnatural and completely invasive. I value my privacy too much. For me, that is more important than whether I live next door to Larry Flynt. That's why I bought in a pre-war condo, 12 units, where no one asked me a thing about my finances, and I didn't have to tap-dance before a bunch of strangers. To each his own, I guess.

(ph41--no, there were no sponsor units; it's a condo. regular sale.)

It was a 'Paladino' joke.
Caputo refered to Cuomo as 'Oily'.
A negative reference to Itialian's of lesser integrity.
I was making a reference to a board's desire to 'know who their getting especially in an all cash sale'.

By the way...
You have got to love the entertainment value of Palidino.
I couldn't imagine anyone running against Andrew that would make Andrew look nice.
We found him!
Porn loving, homophobic, philandering, tea bagging, Buffalonian.
Does it get any better?
I was waiting for Carl to emerge with the Chilian minors.

He's into Chilean children? No fking way. He's got the trifecta. Porn, beastiality and pedophilia going! Awesome teabaggers!

woops!!!
Miners

Miners / minors .... Still funny as sin. So fking rainy tonite :) yo falco.

This co-op listing at 90th & Broadway states that:
"This well-established co-op requires 35% cash and has a net worth requirement."

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/561702-coop-210-west-90th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

So, it' not enough to show that you can afford the apartment and maintenance?? There's also a net worth requirement?? Is this normal? This is why I hate co-ops!

At 1.7 million and over two grand a month in maintenance, they absolutely should see your net worth - the dollar value and quality of assets. As always, great rules to protect you if you are already in the building, a pain in the rear end if you are trying to get in.

joeny: Yes, virtually all coops require buyers to have a certain amount in assets above and beyond what they're putting into the purchase -- to assure they can pay their bills in the event of a period of unemployment or what have you. I don't know why a buyer should hate this; it means your neighbors were subject to a similar requirement and are that much less likely to default on their maintenance and potentially affect your bottom line. Granted, some coops have huge requirements that are obviously meant to screen out the hoi poloi. But these are in the minority and it would be too bad to rule out all coops based on some snobbish ones.

Pardon me, "hoi polloi." (Spoken in an Oxford accent.)

I wish all mortgage companies would adopt financial requirements similar to the ones that co-ops impose -- willingly or otherwise. I'm sure it would drive prices of real estate down, including co-ops like my own, but it would make for a much more stable society.

Avoid co-ops at all cost! I own one in Suffolk, maintenance just TRIPLED b/c they decided to get a ground mortgage b/c 51% of the shareholders decided that we needed all new windows - and they only replaced the windows 10 years ago - and all CEDAR siding. Then they instituted a yearlong special assessment b/c the initial project - they spent all the mortgage money already + the line of credit - didn't include fixing the lower-level deck rails, so they didn't match the upper-level deck rails, and the lower-level people wanted it done all at once instead of slowly.

Then they re-roofed 6 years ago, didn't get a bonded warranty, the roof work was shoddy & needs to be redone to the tune of $70,000, the original company went out of business (surely reorganized under another name, but too bad for us!), and we have to pay for that again, too.

Of course before all of this they spent $250,000 on landscaping. Nothing like a beautiful lawn.

Maintenance is now more than my mortgage; the units are unsellable. They are maniacs. Co-op boards are full of egomaniacs who don't know what they're doing. So dumb are they they they don't even know how dumb they are. St. Joseph - HELP ME SELL!

My sister has lived in a variety of rental and co-op apartments in Manhattan for 40 years. Several months ago she and her husband submitted an accepted offer on a 2 bedroom co-op. They had no problem with the co-op board until they requested a meeting with their dog. So a second board meeting was scheduled. They were sitting there with the dog, chatting with the board members, when one of them leaned over to the dog and said "Nice puppy". The dog growled at the guy and the deal was over. My sister ended up being relieved when she found out about a massive gas leak in the building that would require extensive work, inconvenience (gas turned off for months) and expense for all shareholders. Nice puppy indeed!