88 greenwich

What do I think. I think you're a broker

pretty much the thread in wired says it all.

wouldn't be nice to just be able to discuss a property without everyone accusing you of 1) "you must be a broker" because you said something positive or 2) "you must be a renter" because you said something negative.

Yes betutes and like your statement was any more insightful on 88 Greenwich Street.

I've toured 88 Greenwich st and it has some great services, and if you buy right you get some amazing views. Its for a person who like living in a hugh complex.

well just wondering what people thought. asking for opinions as it seems to have better interiors compared to 75 wall, 90 william, etc and facilities too. i'm thinking of purchasing but just that i heard so many bad reviews and just wonder why.

Most bad reviews are from former renters. However, I very nearly bought at 88 Greenwich, and backed out at the last minute. Among the reasons:

1) Realization that the units are priced significantly higher than comparable units elsewhere. Granted, the finishes here are more beautiful than most other places, but you could do your own re-modelling for much less than the price. These apartments don't even have washers/dryers! Of course, neither does 90 William, etc; but those developments are far cheaper. At the 88 greenwich price point, you should get a lot more floorspace than they're offering.
2) The contract had MULTIPLE non-standard clauses that my lawyer refused to agree to. Even though the sellers said "Don't worry, that clause isn't as bad as it sounds", they refused to negotiate them out.
3) All of FiDi is an "up-and-coming" neighborhood, but this is in one of the more sketchier parts. It'll probably eventually turn into a good neighborhood, but considering the price you're paying, the bang-for-the-buck appreciation potential isn't there.
4) All of FiDi will be under construction for the next 5 years, but this area will be particularly hard-hit. Two major towers are planned literally across the street, and that parking garage in the back will sooner or later be torn down to build something. Brace yourself for jackhammers all day long.
5) The views won't last. With all the new towers planned nearby, you have to assume your views will be gone in 3 years. Which would be an acceptible risk if that were factored into the price, but they are still asking top dollar anyway.
6) Amenities aren't there. Sure, they offer a "free breakfast" and a "DVD Library" each day; but at this price point, you should get a lot more. Look at other FiDi buildings (25 broad, 15 broad, william beaver) which for this price offer swimming pools, bowling alleys, etc. Or 90 William, which offers nearly the same amenities as 88 greenwich, but at a much cheaper price. Or pick an ever cheaper building that offers no ammenities, but for much less money.

I largely agree with tavistmorph. 88 Greenwich has beautiful common areas (especially the hallways, which are amongst the best I have seen). The problem is that I don't live in the hallways. I don't think the floor plans were changed since it was a rental, so most apartments, despite having upgraded (and very nice) finishes, still have a rental feeling (small kitchens, for example). Along those lines, the apartments are a bit small and in almost every apartment I looked at, much of the square footage was in a long entry way hallway (which were nice, but given the lack of square footage to start, I wasn't willing to loose any in a hallway). Lack of washer/dryer was also a huge drawback for me. I live in the neighborhood now and it is a total construction zone. One other issue for me is that there aren't a lot of services in the immediate area - if you go closer to Wall Street, you get away from the construction zone feeling and have a few more bars/restaurants/grocery stores/etc. I had many of the same issues with 25 Broad. I thought the Setai, 75 Wall, and 45 John were all quite nice and had good price per square foot. For what it is worth, I heard a rumor that a "well-known steak house" is going in the retail space formerly occupied by Romi.

hi.thanks so much for the feedback.i'm actually looking to get a studio..i saw one facing south, which is the battery tunnel and the garage..but i think it's somewhat connected to the battery tunnel, so if they decide to tear it down, won't they have to re-route the tunnel? i totally agree that the price/sq ft is more. i saw 90 william too. but the units are to close to the next building and it feels claustrophobic. 75 wall has nice views in general but are too expensive, esp for studios. i also agree that 88 greenwich's surroundings are skechier, but i heard that they are building the W and once freedom tower comes up, the area will go thru a big change? think at this point it's a wild card.

45 john has really nice features but the views are really bad, especially the 3rd floor studio..the 1BR isn't too bad but price is high..broad st is too expensive..what do u guys think of district?

PS: travistmorph..can u recommend me your lawyer? you can email me at ong.nicholas@gmail.com. thanks!

Nope, battery tunnel is completely separate from the garage, so they can (and will) eventually tear it down. Several proposals have already been made (see the 88 greenwich thread on Wired) though I don't know if any have been accepted yet.
But that raises another issue if your studio faces south. Depending on what floor you're on, you might be on the lot line. Everything on the southern wall up to at least the 10th floor (maybe higher, not sure) is the lot line, so if they build something in place of the garage, then not only will you lose your view, but you'll even be forced to brick up the entire window since the new building might be directly adjacent. Before you take out a contract, make sure you check with the sales agent about which floor the lot line extends to.

Hi tavistmorph, could you also recomment me your lawyer? thanks. info4luke@gmail.com

My lawyer was Craig Delsack -- http://nyccounsel.com/
I recommend him -- he's very good and managed to negotiate some truly amazing stuff in my current contract. But unlike many real estate lawyers, he charges an hourly fee rather than a flat fee. Of course, that gives him the incentive to actually negotiate your contract (whereas the flat fee lawyer would have an incentive to rush through as fast as possible). But at least in the short term, the hourly fee does cost you more (though the benefits may be worth it).

do u think 88 greenwich is a good buy? i'm at crossroads right now..especially with the recent market reports about the housing credit crash...is it a good time to buy an apt?

There's an emotional question and a financial one. If you feel you're in a stage where you want to settle down and think you'd be happy living in 88 greenwich, then by all means, go ahead and buy. Even if it's not a great investment, you should always do whatever makes you happiest rather than whatever makes you the most money. Eating at a gourmet restaurant is a bad "investment" compared to eating a cheap meal, but we do it anyway cause we enjoy it and you have to spend your money somehow. Same thing with buying an apartment.

But on a strictly financial basis, then no, I don't see 88 greenwich as a great bet. They're asking such an above-market price already that I just don't see much room for price appreciation near-term. If you want a pure investment, consider the eastern side of FiDi near Fulton Street, Seaport, or Wall Street. That area shows unmistakable signs of growth and will appreciate accordingly once it becomes a real neighborhood -- even if the overall NYC market tanks, that area should on net at least retain the price you paid. But the area around 88 greenwich seems to me to be years away from coming into it's own.

Hi Selfserivce78
I recently bought an apartment at 88 Greenwich and I am waiting to close. I also read allot of the bad reviews posted on the internet and here are just some of my thoughts which played into my decision.
View: I got an apartment facing south and was also concerned about them tearing down the parking lot and building another apartment which would block my view. I did some research and found out that an performing arts company has moved into the lower level of that parking garage and signed a 20 year lease on the property. So if they were going to tear it down they would have to kick them out first. Now I know that isn’t a 100% guarantee but that made me feel better about apartment.
Space: Space was another big selling point for me. I was able to get an apartment that was a 650 sqf studio. I originally would have liked a 1 bed room but I felt that this size apartment would be right for me. I agree with some of the other postings that a big negative is that the apartment is very narrow. But with all apartments in NYC you really have to make the space your owns. Before I signed anything I first sat down and made sure I would feel comfortable living in that space and made sure I had enough room for everything I needed (bed, desk, tv, etc)
Location: I am not sure if you work down town but the location meant that I could walk to work for the first time in my life. Also you are very close to all the subway stations. But be warned that allot of them are closed or have work being done on them during the weekend. I read allot of post talking about the area and the fact that there is a gentlemen’s club on the same block. If this is a very big issue for you then I would advise you not to buy, however I definitely recommend you go down there during the night time and see for yourself. Gentlemen clubs are all over the city and ideally I wouldn’t like to be living near one but the location is very safe I felt. Also you have to remember that the area is getting better and new places are being built. I feel like the whole area is changing.
Apartment: If you have seen the apartment inside and out I am sure you agree that it is very beautiful. The furnishing inside each unit is fantastic. I understand another poster saying that you should save money and buy a cheaper place and just replace the furnishings yourself. But I think that goes against what I was looking for. I was not looking to buy an apartment and fix it up to bring up its value. If I wanted to do that I would have bought elsewhere. The hallways as someone else said are stunning and the roof deck was recently finished and I got a chance to go up there and it looks great. (No I am not a broker) but as I am sure you noticed I really like this building and I wanted to go see how the construction was going and the sales staff was kind enough to let me see. The one issue I had about the roof deck was that the outside area could have been bigger. Since the apartment building will have allot of units I have a concern that it may be crowded on the deck, but I guess I will find this out when I move in. As others have said the lobby is still under construction which should be no surprise since…. The building is under construction.
Price: This is a hard thing to gage because what might seem fair for you might not for someone else. I can’t tell you if this is a good deal for you. But for me it was. I viewed many condos and have been for the past 2 years. Originally I had been looking in Brooklyn and LIC but I really wanted to live in Manhattan. Basically if you want space move to LIC or Brooklyn I feel that downtown is the best value in the city. Another good area to get a good priced condo is Hell’s Kitchen. I viewed a few there but I really didn’t like the neighborhood which might be because I am not familiar with it.
Reviews: I went through the same thing you did with reading reviews online and doubting if it was the right place to buy. But there are 2 things that really played into my decision. First like someone else mentioned allot of these bad reviews are written by current residents or ones that have moved out. I agree with them 100% that living there for the past year must have been bad. I can’t verify if everything they are saying is true or posted out of frustration. But to be blunt I am not renting there. This might be a mean thing to say but I am buying this apartment to live in when the building is ready. Second I found that there were allot of posters that had allot of opinions not just about 88 Greenwich but about allot of the condos in the financial district and I felt like allot of these posting were based on what other people said or they read on other web sites. I went to allot of the web sites and noticed allot of the same postings. Just how some people accuse everyone of being a broker who knows what the motives of people that are posting these negative reviews. This is not to knock everyone who posts because there are many out there that have great post and are very informative.
Yourself: It is your money and your life. I don’t think you should ever let other people’s opinions make your decisions. With any important decision in life you have to find out what is right for you. When coming to my decision I knew that this was the place where I wanted to live and it was right for me. That may or may not be the same for you. You have to figure that out.
Again because I have been following all these site and see how everyone accusing people of being brokers I AM NOT A BROKER. I just read this post and felt that they were kind of in the same place I was. There are a couple of good sites out there that give you more information on downtown and whats being built and buildings going up. I used allot of them when I was looking. And my last bit of advice for you would be DO RESEARCH just like I said not to let negative decisions direct your decisions. Don’t let a good post either  find out for yourself…. Good Luck!

I like the District. Close to all major areas...Wall Street, Tribeca (with the new Whole Foods), Seaport, and the Path/Freedom Tower. I heard the community board approved a park a block away but they still need to purchase the property and get zoning approval so that is speculative. Fulton street is being completely renovated and they want to make Fulton Street the major link between Seaport and WTC. Obviously the Fulton Street Transit center. It's also easier to access by Taxi then Wall Street. And its more of a boutique condo feeling. And it has relatively low maintenace fees. You get good but not over the top amenities. Washer/Dryer. Quality finishings. Hi-tech home system. I bought there. Good luck!

Just curious - besides Streeteasy, Curbed and WiredNY, what other message boards/websites have people read to get information on new developments? I've entered the market recently and would like to find more sources of information. Thanks.

The W Hotel and condos is being built on Greenwich Street right next to the Deutshe Bank building that is sooooooo slowly being taken down. It will do alot of the neighborhood.

The deal for the steakhouse fell through. 88 Greenwich is trying to find another restaurant to go in that space. A bank (no idea which one) will go in the space next to the hardware store (that used to be that cheap clothing store).

The NY real estate industry has its own magazine, The Real Deal. Obviously, it's by its very nature partisan, but it does cover the transactions, the parties involved, and their plans as they evolve.

I am torn between 99 greenwich, which I also agree had great amenities, and the condos near Fulton (The District, 45 John, etc).

Price/Sq Ft is great at Greenwich, at least for the units I'm considering.
I feel that it's still close enough to everything, but not crazy chaotic...but as a LT investment, not quite sure if it's better to go into smaller, boutique condos near Fulton or to a larger one- such as the Greenwich Club.

I love the little details put into Greenwich and the view is great (despite the garage, yes, but they are locked in for 20 years and I plan to sell it prior to that, should I go forward). I'm not sure how much growth that area will have, being more west and south.

Any advice?

and I am also- not a broker... thanks!

I would appreciate opinions (true ones, please) to get more information. I am only several weeks into my research and have only seen a handful of properties.

I had to make a similar choice a few months ago. Ultimately, I went with 45 John St. I’ll tell you what influenced my thinking, for what it is worth:

1) 88 Greenwich – I loved the common areas and the amenities are great; common charges seemed very reasonable, given the amenities. I also really liked many of the layouts. For me, 88 Greenwich had several downfalls. First, there were very few 1 bedrooms over 800 square feet and 800 square feet was my minimum. Also, I was fearful that a large number of small apartments (studios and small 1 bedrooms) would bring in too many younger, ‘party’ type kids who couldn’t afford a bigger place. I live in the neighborhood now and it is a total construction zone and will be for quite a while. Finally, there are next to no amentias in the 2-3 block radius.

2) District – Loved the building, loved the finishes, loved the roof deck. Price per square foot seemed good. Problem for me was the apartments were way too small – the largest 1 bedroom (other than the penthouses which are well over $1 million) was about 740 sq feet. Also, I couldn’t deal with the half-size oven, half-size dishwasher and small fridge. Even if I don’t technically need full size appliances, I still want them – total deal breaker for me.

3) 75 Wall – this was my second choice. I don’t have much bad to say about this place, other than on-site broker (who I’m not sure is there anymore) was awful. I generally dislike most brokers, but this woman was so bad as to make me refuse to buy there.

4) 45 John – As I said, I ultimately bought here. I liked the price per square foot (although there have been some price increases since I bought); finishes are great. I also really like that there are very few studios in the building. Most 1 bedrooms have 1.5 bathrooms and many 1 bedrooms have 2 full bathrooms. I also liked the location – it is near all subway lines, within about 500 feet of 3 grocery stores, including 1 that is open 24 hours (Jubilee). There are also other basic services nearby; front street is much more walkable for a easy dinner out (if you haven’t been to the restaurants on Front Street, definitely check them out – I like the Cuban place (Salud) and the Italian place (Acqua); The sushi place (can’t remember the name) is also good. It also about a 20 minutes walk to SoHo. Downside is that most apartments don’t have much in the way of a view.

Good luck – I think any of the above are good choices – it just depends on what is important to you.

Thanks for your info down1234.
I fear to respond that I am one of those studio purchasers. My budget is not that low, but I am strictly looking for alcove studios. One beds have been on the higher price range for me. In any case, alot of what you've said makes sense, but for studios, i thought greenwixh had alot of larger studios.
The district was ok (not so sure about light factor) but i too hated their amenities (kitchen didn't make sense).

I just would like to know- don't you think that Greenwich street too will develop with more convenient stores and shops/restaurants?

also, does anyone know if you can put in a w/d in the units yourself?

My fear with Greenwich Street is there is a lot of buildings that are unlikely to change and convert to good retail/services - for example, the AMEX building; also I know there is some talk of tearing down the battery park garage, but it seems like it is stalled in the usual government pipeline. Also there eventually will be some great buildings in the area but the construction of 4 50+ story buildings means it will be a construction zone for a long time to come.

Can anyone tell me what the average price/sq feet is in the FiDi district? Inclusive of those bldgs a bit out on the peripheries- ie. Greenwich Club, ones on west street, and Fulton area?

Just purchased a lovely studio at 88 Greenwich. After an exhaustive search that took us from the upper-east side down to Williamsburg and Brooklyn, we found the overall profile of Greenwich to be the best for us. We got one of studios with two windows: one facing west and othe other south with water views. Incidentally, our view of the water follows a street which most likely will not be obstructed by any future construction. Here is a breakdown:

Pros:
-Low CC and tax abatement
-Excellent quality and amenities
-Long term investment opportunities with projected growth of entire area (yes, even Greenwich St.)
-Easy access to subways
-Off of crazy Wall St (which can get old,real fast Mon-Fri)

Cons:
-priced a bit higher than comparable market prices (but the quality at Greenwich is perhaps better than other condos in this category)
-Construction for a long time
-Uncertainty about retail/restaurant offerings in two block radius in the short run

I lived at 45 Wall Street for 3 years (2003-2006). Nice building, nice roof deck and gym. 45 Wall St (still a rental) has more of that frat boy, NYU feel. It was alright, but I think Greenwich is better and preferred for a slightly older and mature homeowner. Just my two cents.

bukharin: I'm curious about a couple of things. Based on my initial look at the building, a lot of the residents still seem to have that frat boy, NYU feel. Did you spend much time figuring out that this wasn't the case at 88 Greenwich?

Also, you mention that the quality might justify the high-ish prices. Are there specific things that convinced you of the relatively higher quality? What else were you looking at?

Disclosure: I'm a real estate agent.

That said, I like 88 Greenwich. I feel like new construction is always a risk, and I therefore prefer to skew towards developers I trust, and I trust these developers more than most. (The force behind Buttonwood is Andrew Heiberger, who used to run Citi Habitats). The finishes are definitely lovely, and it's always one of the buildings I show my clients when they want to see downtown.

The buliding does have a little bit of a hotel-y feeling (given the price point and the location, I'll bet you see a lot of corporate pied-a-terres) but after watching the enthusiastic adoption of the Orion -- which I think has a similar feel -- I'm not sure everyone considers that a bad thing.

Cons are definitely the ragged area right around the corner and the fact that you're going to be in construction-land for the next years.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

Jordyn:
Well, everything is relative. Being in the financial district, I don't expect to find that many families and older folks. And to echo the real estate agent above, yes, I've seen a number of corporate pied-a-terres. Certainly, there will be a somewhat younger crowd. There will be some owners that sublet, no doubt. But I don't see it turning into a rental apt atmosphere overall. Sure hope not. The sales office told me that approximately 75% of the units are now under contract. My understanding is that some 6 month leases are still being rented.

Can anyone confirm this?

RE: the amenities. Common areas have a 4 star feel: lobby, roof, gym, library, billiards area. The hallways on each floor are quite remarkable for this category of condo. There is a feeling of calm and comfort when you arrive on your floor. Apparently, they really renovated and spared little expense on appliances etc. in the units. The drafty windows that renters complained about have been replaced. You could buy a bare unit elsewhere and renovate--probably for much less--but it wasn't worth it for us.

*I am not an agent*

Any current or prospective owners with some recent feedback on this building?

I looked at it last year and passed due to thier refusal to negotiate price. You should be able to get a good deal now. Everyone who bought from the sponsor is now underwater.

I almost bought before the financial crisis but never signed the contract (THANK YOU JESUS! a la Kathy Griffin). Here are the reasons:

1. The foundation/land sinking problems in the immediate area, which our attorney felt will be exercebated by all the major constructions in the immediate neighborhood.

2. The units are tiny.

3. The complete lack of any air rights. The South-facing windows may all go in the future, as there is an approved plan to replace the MTA garage w/ a 20-plus-story office bldg.

4. While some of the amenities sounded good (breakfast, DVD library, etc.), I am likely to even use them.

5. The dark hotel-like finishes actually show the flaws more. The new units I saw had numerious scratches on their dark-wood floors, and the dust was visible throughout. It's higher maintenance than light-finish bldgs.

6. All in all, most of the "hip" residents in FiDi seem to be around the area near the John-South-Stone-Broadway-William area at night/on weekends, and things can get really sketchy around 88 Greenwich at night. When people make a false assumption that "FiDi is empty at night/on weekends," they must be talking about 88 Greenwich. That immediate area, for some reason, is very low traffic.

Per the last point - used to live right near there, and I would hardly call the area "sketchy" at any time of day. Its empty, yes, as is BPC across the way...but the crime rate for those three zip codes are literally the lowest in the city by a mile as a result.

"Sketchy" means the Pussycat Lounge and the Adult Bookstore a few doors down.

That's fine; it's just semantics. Still, I do feel unsafe walking around that area at night, and I am a big Black man.

I am sure, though, you won't dispute the rest of my point that most night-time/weekend scenes appear to take place along the "other side" of FiDi between South Street Seaport and B'Way.

You are right. Its just empirically true that the crime rate is extraordinarily low in the area west of Broadway below chambers. Like 1/5 he NYC average, and like 1/6 that of Lenox Hill or Lincoln Center.

Thanks for the insight everyone.

We are currently looking to buy an apt in 88 greenwich and have fell in love with this building for a few reasons. 1) the amenities are better than any other building we've seen, ever. they spared no detail on the finishes 2) i love this part of the financial district and feel it is a million times better than any castrophic space on john and fulton streets. this part of the downtown area is right near the water which i love and feels much safer than other areas i've been in. As for the pussycat lounge, i think it gives the hood some character. i'm really excited to buy in this building and think it's oen of the best deals in the area. any other feedback anyone has is appreciated though. thanks.

Wait, wait, wait. Prices are falling not rising. The trend is your friend.

25 Broad will dump 300 more units on FiDi, then Beekman will dump 700 more (rental). There is plenty of inventory. My guess is that FiDi will only put a few hundred units in contract over the next 12 months and most of them will be bought directly from the bank (like the units at 45 John perhaps.)
Those units at 88 Greenwich have been for sale for 3 or so years now - there's a reason the one you like hasn't been sold in 3 years. Don't be the sucker.

I've recently moved into the building and I'm pretty content with the amenities and the staff working in the building. However, while all the appliances are new, most of the equipments (such as a/c units and pipe system) have been kept from the previous era. Also, the floors are thin so I can hear my upstairs neighbor walking around.
Having said all that, I still think this building has one of the finest design details compared to the rest of FiDi condos I've visited and the location is just perfect.
Recently, a new Korean restaurant and a grocery store have just opened on Greenwich St., so I believe that things are slowly happening.
In terms of safety, I've walked home from the trains very late at night (like 2am) and I never felt unsafe. I'm female by the way. The folks at Pussycat lounge tend to just mind their own business anyway.
Hope this helps!

I think the last three or so posts in this thread include "agent input." Or, maybe it's cognitive dissonance after having over-paid for TINY units in a bldg. with minimal amenities, located in a deserted area. Also, dark finishes often conceals flaws, but they are easily scratched... If you are considering buying there, don't forget, virtually all of the South-facing windows are scheduled to be blocked by MTA, and your north-western views will soon be blocked. In addition, the bldg. may have a foundation problem according to some reports. Be sure to ask your agent about these issues--and if they deny them, ask them to put that in writing.

If you are actually happy w/ your purchase @ 88 Greenwich, please disregard my comments here and enjoy your apartment.

Just got an deal with the sells office. I read the contract and it needs only 21 days for closing.
My attorney said it is very strict. I have to get loan from their specified mortgage broker (that is very unusual), the the buyer has to pay the seller's attorney fee $1,950 (that's so high, very greedy).

moving_in, that's no "deal" you are getting! Don't sign anything! You seem to be new at buying new constructions, so just FYI, yes, ordinarily, buyers pay seller's atty fees. Ordinarily.

But, most deveopers are offering to cover not only seller's atty fees but also ALL of YOUR closing costs in the current climate. "BB Gr33nwich" (to ensure their anonymity) was long offering the waiver of fees, and they are't doing well. So, I'd be surprised if you can't get them to cover seller's atty fee. In particular, they are anxious with resales and rentals popping up like crazy throughout the bldg., crowding the market.

moving_in, maybe you should be more assertive? Did you ask for at least 20% off asking? Did you ask them to cover all of YOUR closing costs? Did you ask for free storage space? Again, "BB Gr33nwich" has been trying to get rid of their apts for over 2 years with a LOT of unsod units, and it hasn't been doing well, so BE ASSERTIVE. Be ready to walk away. If necessary, do some internet search on their foundation problems and the proposed/approved MTA highrise to cover most of the Southern side of the bldg. You can use them to bargain, I am sure.

Also, the dark wood finish really impresses some people, but the amenities are MINIMAL (lounge, "library," and a concierge desk--oh, and free coffee!!!), and the $1k pf price tag and the CCs seem waaaaaaay too high to me.

I don't know what to make of the 21-day stipulation... I wonder how that would benefit them...

I AM NOT AN AGENT>> just a buyer there who is defending my soon to be new home for 5 years or so.. Where can I find more information about the Foundation problem??

I do agree with @nyc212 on being more aggressive.. we are currently in-contract on a unit at this building that is amazing, with Western views of the water. yes, there may be a Mandarin Oriental going up at somepoint and the MTA building (when is that planning to go up - 10 years??)

The apartment has Western views, we turned down an apartmen tiwht northern views because we were worreid about the HOliday In going up. Our unit has a 280 square foot terrace.
The maintenance is actually REALLY low for a building with those kind of amenities and although some may not be impressed with free coffee in the morning, I'm impressed with the full time personal trainer at the 4000 square foot gym, the free classes, the international news stand (not like im going to use it) but it's nice that its there, the beautiful harbour room, the concierge and the darts!! i love darts and that kinda sold me too.

i guess to each their own and to some the building's amenities are not OMG but based on what i"ve seen, they stood out on the beauty of the building.

I am worried about the dark floors scratching.. i am since i wear heels and this may be a problem but I can't really change that now.

I really hope as a new buyer and a first time buyer that the neighborhood will grow and once WTC goes there, it will be a wise investment.

Darts.

Thanks for the advise,NYC212. How can I find the information about the foundation problem? I did from the internet, but I could not search any of it. Is the problem for this building or for this area?

First, katyalibin, sorry I said not-necessarily-encouraging things about the bldg. But, hey, if you are happy, that's all we need to know! Just keep track of the projected taxes/when the abatement ends in a few years. Maybe you can get your realtor/CPA to run some numbers, so you can plan accordingly. I had mine run some analyses, and the projected numbers were way too high for a tiny 1BR.

Also, moving_in, I can't really think of a definitive source off the top of my head (it was a couple of years ago), but the report was related to the diner across the street sinking and collapsing shorty after 9/11. I think it was either a City report or some public interest agency report, which stated that, the ground may not be sufficiently solid to warrant the current digging and construction, etc. The bldg. in question was definitely part of this "warning." The report was severe enough for me to remove this bldg. from my shopping list...

Are you set on this bldg.? There are others w/ comparable or better finishes and amenities, offering lower prices...although 88 Greenwich is probably more financially stable because they can simply keep the current renters (it's a rental conversion, unlike most others in the city).

nyc212, thats Ok. I value everyone's opinino on this but yes, pretty set on the building . What but other buildings you were thinking of that had better/comparable amenities?

i looked into the abatement and it only goes up by $20 per year until it's over in 5 years. at that point, the taxes would only be $240 per month, which i think is pretty reasonable.

I have asked my laywer to look into the foundation problem. I hope to get some more clarity on it soon.

You also hit the nose on the head with the stability issues, a lot of these new buildings are so unstable that they can't get banks to approve mortgages there. Then if the building goes bankrupt, it leaves the sellers in a hole.

k--are you sure about the taxes? The annual $20 tax increase doesn't sound right for 421a abatement. It should be 20% (per year or every other year, depending on the type of 421a the bldg. got).

About amenities--I do beieve 88 Greenwich only offers average amenities for a FiDi bldg. in that price range. You should have shopped around! Some of those amenities, although I wouldn't necessarily used them, are amazing, w/ swimming pools, spas, and so on. By contrast, 88 Greenwich primarily offers "space" as its amenities--lounge(s)/terrace, lobby, library, minimally-equipped gym, etc. The residents I spoke to unanimously complained that they could never use the terrace and the gym because they aren't big enough for a 450-unit bldg.

Does anyone know what the average purchase price per square foot is in the FiDI area for a studio? I am interested in a studio at 88 Greenwich but can't seem to find any sales comparable. The asking price is about $1000-$1100psf which I think is fairly high in this market.

should i go in with a broker to buy or not? which one will get me the best deal

I bought a unit here a few months ago without a broker. You may have a little more leverage in negotiating without a broker. But all depends on if you are comfortable handling everything yourself.

gqbuthighiq: so which is it? 20 Pine or 88 Greenwich? You buying both tomorrow?

i think qg is some type of prankster

i am just being a wise shopper, cannot decide

Does anyone living in 88 Greemwich know the annual property management fee(shown as a line item in the year-end financial statment sent to unit owners) for this building or similar buildings in the Financial District?

Thank you for you help or suggestions on where to obtain.

hi folks, so anyone know exactly if the foundation problems indeed exist? I've been reading a lot of rumors about it, but no one seem to know for sure. Thanks!

any thoughts on the numerour 1br for sale in the building recently? saw some open houses, views look good, and fixtures are quite good as well. a little expensive though for the location, i think.

wait for the crash

Sma202, when will that happen?

Look at all those unique posters from years ago. These days, streeteasy is limited to people who have an approved account.

Any news on how it rode out Sandy?

It didn't: http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2012/11/02/88_greenwich_declared_unsafe_and_completely_uninhabitable.php

Anyone try to rent here recently.

RE: Sandy

I have a friend who owns a 1-bedroom here. Ran into him a couple of nights ago while I was grocery shopping at the Whole Foods in Columbus Circle. He looked tired, dissheveled & many other things. When asked what brings him to this neighborhood, he told me he had to evacuate & is now staying at the Hudson Hotel on 58th & 9th with wife & 2 kids (in one tiny room) FEMA to pay for first month only; kids are driving him nuts but he can not go back for at least 4 months! (realistically, 6). Because that's how long it will take (at a minimum) for the building to become somewhat livable. On top of it, he said mgmt being complete jerks: the Master Flood Insurance Policy says it will cover relocation for all residents, but mgmt is refusing to do so. He is now looking for a short-term rental uptown. Knows he is completely screwed as he bought at the peak & now the place is unsellable. I have visited the building a few times & find it to be dark with a dorm-like feel. Finishes are good but definitely not worth the price. And I've been hearing about issues with mgmt for at least 3+ years. He said class-action lawsuit against mgmt imminent.

Sammy, it's a condo, what do you mean "management"?

An owner is suing the board and the managing agent: http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2012/11/20/greenwich_club_hit_with_first_postsandy_tenant_lawsuit.php

It's interesting to re-read the posts from 2-5 years ago. All seem to touching on some issue relating to the integrity of the foundation.

The recent lawsuit will be amended most likely once further review is made of the offering.

Is the managing agent still controlled by the Seller/Developer?

Uhhhh....ever single building in the area was flooded. The building is in a flood zone.

"This map shows the heights of floodwaters during Hurricane Sandy — over 17 feet in some areas."

http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2012/1120-sandy/survey-of-the-flooding-in-new-york-after-the-hurricane.html?hp

Why does the owner/tenant feel like taking on the managing agent?

Additional comments will be helpful in getting to the crux of this.

Don't believe everything you read in the paper. Not all buildilngs in the area are flooded. The media likes to over react. 99 John, 20 Pine, 40 Broad, all buildings on William Street are fine. I live in the area and loving it. Actually I got power back before my friends who live around Union Sq/Gramercy area. :)

Is the building livable now?

How has resales been affected by the storm?

There will be no storm during the next year or two when the current owners will all put their places on the market.

It looks like no appreciation whatsoever in the prices in the last 5 years... After inflation and transaction costs, way under water...