Large co-op gut renovation on Park

$500,000-$1,000,000 total.

without knowing the square footage of the apt, I find Pawn's willingness to offer an estimate a bit odd. For what you describe I don't think $300/sqft is especially high. The central air can be spectacularly expensive if starting from scratch. Without central air, I'd say about $200-250 per sqft for highend without excessive millwork. Once you start adding a lot of custom millwork and cabinetry beyond the kitchen (e.g., lots of wall panels, custom mouldings), costs can become kind of nutsy. Same if you are going to be installing particularly luxe finishes such as marble corridors with fancy inlay designs etc.

Actually, Pawn's is a really good guess assuming a basic two bed/two bath configuration. High end would equal $400 -$500 (and up) psf; medium would be $300 - $400 sf., including architect's fees, and all contracting.

I agree with kylewest on cost. For comparison, I bought a 10-yr old condo at $325 psf and budgeted a total renovation at $115 psf.

I always think people's reno estimates on this board are too high. Just saw a 2-BR, 2-BA Tribeca loft that was done gorgeously (reconfigured using an architect, added central air, punched in four new windows, did the shoe closet, gorgeous unusual baths, great kitchen) that was done for $450,000, which would be $260 a square foot. But throw in the Park ave. co-op factor and this once I'll agree with Kylewest on $300/sq. ft. for high end.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

I would agree with the other posters. Minimum of $100 /sq foot is common. If you want higher end it will be $200/sq ft and up.

I can reccomend Design by Francois- www.francoistenenbaum.com - He's done several apts in that area as well as a townhouse on Park Ave (Park in the 60s).

Probably will fall in the $300-500/ft. range

You get what you pay for, always have always will. Can you do a renovation for $100 sq ft? of course. Will it be med or high end, not even close.

Also, one persons high end is another person low end. Expectations are very important. I consider most of my clients med-hi end. Hi end could cost as much as $700 sq ft. Most of my clients end up paying around $250-$350.00 sq ft. Thats with viking stoves, sub zero's and custom millwork.

Primer has it right. One man's shit is anothers bread and butter. High-end, specialty tiles in baths, real depth to all moldings, stained not painted, Decorative hard wood flooring throughout, new windows, decorative ceilings. In a high end building with restrictive daily work hours.....2,500sq ft-3,500 sq ft...call it $500-$700 per ft.
Look, a great window package for 20 windows is going to be $100,000 thats $33 dollars a foot on a 3,000 sq ft apt.
a spectacular kitchen in a space 16' * 20' is going to be $220,000 that equals $73 dollars a foot in our hypothetical 3000 sq ft apt.
on and on..not to mention complete new electrical package, complete new plumbing package. Smart home technology to include advanced lighting, music security and home entertainment would be $75k-$175k....on and on

patient09
4 minutes ago
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Primer has it right. One man's shit is anothers bread and butter.

Really?

its a great old saying from guys in the cesspool business, don't you think

That certainly explains columbiacounty.

Apartment is a 9 room a bit over 3000 feet

Patient09 thanks for the detailed comments, very much value that feedback. Kylewest and Primer05 I've thought you were spot on in other posts, curious to how you both would advise given the size measurements above.

Would also be curious how all 3 of you think about retention of an architect and interior design firm together versus using an interior design firm with architecturally trained staff and outside architects who stamp their drawings.

UESFamily - I do not like the build-design model, because I think one of the great benefits to having an architect is that he/she acts as a check on the contractors to make sure that they are doing things exactly as outlined in the contract, and up to code. For the same reason I don't like the idea of using a contractor the architect recommends - I think the architect would naturally be defensive if things aren't done correctly, and of course one never knows what type of kickbacks might be involved. Maybe I'm just too skeptical, but I think the whole real estate/construction/mortgage complex is shady.

Printer, I have to respectfully disagree with the idea that one shouldn't use a contractor that the architect recommends. As a general matter, your architect is going to have much more leverage with the contractor than you do; the architect is the one who is likely to be a "repeat customer" and is far more likely than you to be a source of future referrals. If the architect works with the contractor with some frequency, the contractor is going to be a lot more responsive and meticulous than if your job seems like a one-off that isn't likely to yield him much future business. Plus, an architect who has worked with your contractor will be aware of the contractor's strengths and weaknesses (relating to both skills/work and personality -- the latter of which also has a big effect on how your job turns out and how long it takes) and will have some experience in how to manage the contractor's issues. This is one of the "wish I had known" points from a large renovation I just finished.

UES,

As far as hiring an architect, design build firm, or a designer it really depend son your goals and budget too, I have done so many projects and each one is different. Some were with architects that I didnt know, some were with architects who I brought in and some were architects that brought me in. The same goes for designers.

I dont think an architect is very necessary except for the drawings, if it was me I would go with the designer with an architectural staff.

Printer,

I could not disagree more.

Over the years I built relationships with architects and designers and when we do a project together I know exactly what to expect, there are no surprises which makes the project run smoothly.

As far as up to code our whole business is predicated on referrals, if we do not do the project correctly then its time to find a new profession.

Kickbacks? To whom? the architect?

I am curious to know what business you are in, I bet there are no shady people in it, right?

Of course there are shady people in every industry, which is why you need to take precautions. A gut renovation on your home is one of, if not the, most expensive thing you will ever do, not to mention the time and emotional aspects of it. You just can't be too careful.

You may find these two older threads helpful:
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/19358-advice-on-gut-prewar-renovation
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/15429-architect-fees

I can't offer much more on pricing without seeing the space and knowing more about what you actually want done with some specificity as to finishes. Unfortunately, the above ballpark is about as much as you can really get from a forum post.

As for architect versus designer or both, I don't think there is a hard and fast right or wrong answer. I have my opinions about what worked for me, but other arrangements may suit others. What is key is a very clear understanding, in writing, of whom is responsible for what--where does the buck stop. Set expectations early and clearly to avoid finger-pointing if something isn't right later. Review the above threads for more on all this.

Kyle, who is the architect you used?

I won't post contacts here, but if you want to post an email, I would provide them to you that way.

my email is primerenovations@mac.com.

UES:

I've renovated dozens of my own apartments over the years, often gut renovations, using
contractors and skiled tradesmen supervised by me. Costs are much lower than those generally
quoted by contractors and on forums like SE. My current contractor is very skilled and could
probbaly do your job for a lot less than anybody else quotes. If you want his contact info
e-mail me at oxford22nd@yahoo.com.

Also ... materials and their selection are ultra important. Many contractord who supply them
add on large premiums. Years ago, just before I became my own general contractor, I was quoted
- through a broker friend - $2000 for bathroom wall tiles available for sale at Home Depot for
no more than $70 (their premkium brand).Those on a fixed price contract often tend to use cheap
looking and inferior materials and appliances - as I've also learned from mistakes I made.

My advise ... learn about your materials choices; select your own materials; and paty for them
directly. Pay your contractor only for labor.

Thank you all for the input

Rb345,

Interesting comments. "Many contractors who supply them add on large premiums" I did not know that . I have always charged my clients the exact price products cost me, including my discount. You also state that your contractor is a lot less then the contractors on forums like this but then you say you are your own gc, I dont get it.