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New Heating system

Started by Babar
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 22
Member since: Oct 2009
Discussion about
I am buying a building which has no heat but only electric heaters in each unit which are not efficient. I am thinking of installing instead a Mitsubishi multi-room ductless air conditioning heat pumps - Cooling and heating for each unit. I would like to get inputs of anybody who has tried this in the past.
Response by nyc_sport
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 809
Member since: Jan 2009

Look on brownstoner.com. Heat pumps are not designed for the dead of a northeastern winter. They become very inefficient below 40 degrees and basically non operable when it is "really" cold. Typically, the heat pump itself has an alternative source of heat (geothermal, etc.), or you use supplemental heat (i.e., electric heat) indoors during really cold weather.

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Response by hejiranyc
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 255
Member since: Jan 2009

Heat pumps generally revert to "Auxiliary Mode" when the outside temperature falls to a certain point; it becomes more or less the same as the electric heaters you have now. Perhaps you can offset the inefficiency of the heaters by putting up solar photovoltaic panels on the roof.

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Response by spanky3604
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 58
Member since: Jun 2008

Babar;
NYC Sport is spot-on;I have seen numerous jobs where the heat pumps are inadequate and back-up heating had to be installed.
Be smart and talk to a qualified HVAC engineer who will design a system that makes sense for your property.You will,of course, spend
some money for this,but in the long run it will pay off. Trial and error solutions you come up with on your own probably won't be cost
effective or perform well.Good Luck.

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Response by Babar
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 22
Member since: Oct 2009

thanks guys. the guys in brooklyn who install them tell me that mitsubishi makes them work in very cold weather as well.

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Response by dwell
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 2341
Member since: Jul 2008

I've installed mitsubishis in stores & Ts have never complained re: too hot/too cold. But, yes, get some quotes from hvac engineers & just for comparison sake, get some quote from boiler guys, although I bet it would be very expensive to plumb the entire bld. If windows are old, another thing you may want to consider is installing new windows thru out because that can cut down on cold air entering units.

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Response by nyc10023
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 7614
Member since: Nov 2008

Babar - I have installed a forced-air "high velocity small duct" heating system powered by electric heat pumps (and cooling system hooked up as well). They work well (i.e. bring space up to desired temp quickly) BUT the cost is insanely high compared to either a gas or oil burning system (approx. 2-3 times the cost).

One thing to add to the equation for optimum comfort is the placement of the vents (if you chose to go this route). Think about where you spend your time, where the hot air should be directed. I had a very small bathroom that got way too hot quickly in the winter because it didn't need its own hot air vent.

The latest trends in retrofitted heating, insulation (in addition to all-new windows expertly installed & caulked, ditto door/doorframes):
1) Radiant floor heating - with tubing "inserts" in the subfloor
2) Insulation blown into walls & attic/roof space
3) Attic/roof fan
4) Solar panels
5) Green roof
6) On-demand water heaters for each bathroom/flr

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Response by nyc10023
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 7614
Member since: Nov 2008

When was the building built? What happened to the old-fashioned radiators?

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Response by nyc10023
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 7614
Member since: Nov 2008

Sorry, just reread your question. You are not installing a forced-air system wholesale, but doing a Mitsubishi thing/room? IME, having visited a few places with a similar arrangement (existing steam radiator system not great, the Mitsubishi is more of an aux. thing in winter but main cooling system in summer), it seems to be quite adequate. I have no idea how the bills for a Mitsubishi room-by-room system differ from a forced-air-heat-pump.

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Response by Babar
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 22
Member since: Oct 2009

Thanks all!!
@ nyc10023
my rep in brooklyn tells me that a mitsubishi HYPER-HEATING Inverter P-series is different that a traditional ductless system and will work at very cold temperatures also and so be used as a main source of heat.

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Response by Babar
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 22
Member since: Oct 2009

building was built in 1930 around that.

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Response by nyc10023
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 7614
Member since: Nov 2008

Babar: the issue with heat pump isn't that they don't heat up the room, it's the cost of doing so.

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Response by Babar
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 22
Member since: Oct 2009

ok my estimate was 10 to 15 k a unit (2 bedroom plus den)
much cheaper and less holes than rewiring the room for steam or hit water??

and i guess much cheaper for the owner? since it is all linked to individual meters.

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Response by maly
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 1377
Member since: Jan 2009

May be cheaper to install, but much more expensive to run. You could say you don't care if it's an investment property and your tenants will pay their own heat, however it will impact the rents (higher turnover/tenant complaints.)

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Response by maly
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 1377
Member since: Jan 2009

May be cheaper to install, but much more expensive to run. You could say you don't care if it's an investment property and your tenants will pay their own heat, however it will impact the rents (higher turnover/tenant complaints.)

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Response by alanhart
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007

Babar, will your building let you install the outside part of that system? In 3rd world (and 1.5th world) countries, you'll see them bracketed all over all facades of apartment buildings, but here I wouldn't even assume you'd be allowed to install them in airshafts.

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Response by Babar
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 22
Member since: Oct 2009

i am talking about this system below: Hyper heating system supposedly energy efficient!!!
http://www.acfactorystore.com/airconditioning_heating/index.php?controller=category&path=20_143

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Response by popstar
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 1
Member since: Jan 2009

Babar, thinking along similar lines and curious: how did it go?

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Response by hboogz
about 14 years ago
Posts: 19
Member since: Oct 2011

How in the world does a building built in 1930 not have any existing pipe for heat? Where in NYC is this?

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