Real Estate Tax Increase Fears - corrected

I doubt it. I was waiting to post this until my 2010 tax letter came, but here're my RE taxes from 1993 to 2009:

1993 .....$938.70
1994 $?
1995 $?
1996 $?
1997 $?
1998 ..$1,789.51
1999 $?
2000 ..$2,980.24
2001 ..$3,233.05
2002 ..$3,453.24
2003 ..$5,969.60
2004 ..$4,269.52
2005 ..$6,062.86
2006 ..$7,882.08
2007 ..$9,381.80
2008 ..$9,884.08
2009 $12,203.42

That's a 17.4% rate of increase from 1993-2009, and 10.8% from 2003-2009. I hadn't paid attention to the year-to-year increase before.

Assume it is for the same property. Did you have tax abatement? If so, when did it fully expire?

NWT, curious how big is your apartment?

A 2/2, maybe 1350 ft², WEA & 72nd. Maintenance is about 50% RE taxes.

Those are some powerful increases. But the increases can mostly be attributed to bargain historical property taxes. Glad to see that prewar coops are finally being taxed closer to the 80s cookie cutter condos. Your taxes are still mighty cheap compared to 00s condos after abatements.

Right, the absolute amount seems to be in line. What struck me was the rate of increase. I'd just get the tax-per-share letter every year, do the calculation, and plug it into my income taxes. If it was a condo and I was writing a check for it I guess I'd have noticed.

can someone compare the RE Tax increases to the CPI? Stock market performance? raises in income? I think that the increases point to government (NYC) obligations to unions , public services etc. Not sure this is sustainable.Perhaps Bloomberg can explain to us all the future of this city....

check into tony westchester suburbs: appx 2.5 % of face value is pretty common. if the WEA 2/2 is worth appx 1mm, it's taxes are a relative bargain.

WB- my question is not about a "relative bargain". It is about sustainability and long term implications.

sorry, wasnt responding to your list of questions--was posting as you posted

re your list--grab an excel sheet and plug in whatever data you want to see--or hire a secretary to do it

and call 311 for bloomberg's comments

Thank you bottom! it will be my pleasure!

To follow up, the 2010 tax letter just arrived. $13,212, up only(!) 8.3% from 2009.

For 2011, it was $13,476, up 2% from 2010.

and in comparison, what are the rent increases for the same time period?

for a manhattan coop , are the only RE taxes due to the city ? or is there a state component also ?

The whole amount goes to NYC. I don't know whether it passes along any to the state.

gotcha. thx! nyc.gov is the accurate source for all these figures ?

Oh no re taxes going up! Oh no my diesel fuel is going up on my yacht! Oh no my kids private tuition is going up!

Jstfu and make more money.

Or buy more re!

Taxes more than doubled in 5 years. So much for that "holding your payment constant" argument.

For 2012, it was $14,055, up 4.3% from 2011.

NWT, I am seeing the same rate of increase when I calculate my share of property taxes for my 1 bed co op in midtown. Just not sure how long I want to endure the never ending increases in property taxes for no additional services. When you add in NYC income tax, it starts to look like insanity to live here.

My real taxes are up 10 percent this year and the sole reason for 5 percent increase in maintenance.

Aggregate property taxes are supposed to climb 5% according to the last city budget I looked at. If you're seeing increases of more than that, it's a correction of historic undertaxation, or an attempt by the city to make up a slow real estate market (i.e. a low level of transfer taxes) with higher annual real estate taxes (which is what happened in 2009-1010; interestingly during that dip, personal income tax collections stayed fairly flat).

If you're not getting more services for your 5%, according to the city it's because the money is being used to fund state and federal mandates while the amount of money we are getting from D.C. and Albany is dropping.

Is that decline economic (the state and the country got hit harder by the recession than we did) or political? Discuss.

ali r.
DG Neary realty

Why can't they create a new tax for all the abated properties? I realize they can't break the contracts but it seems new taxes are created all the time. Create a tax that brings the abated tax up to market levels until the abatement ends. Then the new tax expires for that specific property.

perfect...subsidize the developers, then bait-and-switch-fuck the new owners!!

Get rid of the abatements all together going forward and tax the current ones.

I can't think of a better way to stymie construction of affordable housing in the city. I agree that we should modify the 421(a), which was actually put on hold for several years and ultimately benefited luxury condos as much as affordable construction, but there are many abatements that are critical to preserving old and developing new affordable housing in NYC. Don't throw grenades if you don't have all the facts.

bob420, you're saying don't break the contracts, but then create a new and special tax that brings in the same amount as if the contracts had been broken. And this special tax would only apply to certain owners.

Be sure to post a picture of the judge doubling over with hysterical laughter as he declares that unconstitutional the day it is signed into law.

Starting in Q3, our building's quarterly bill started falling YOY, about 1%. Previous to that, the increase was about 7% for many quarters.

The city's 2013-2016 financial plan shows property taxes up 3-4% in each of years 2014-2016 but there is still a gap to be filled of 1-3% of the total budget.

Does anyone know the difference for tax purposes of a D4 class vs D6 class? Does it change the taxable assessed value?

http://observer.com/2013/02/the-luxury-of-a-manhattan-pied-a-terre-just-got-a-lot-more-expensive/

Property tax abatement for co-op and condos extended, but only for primary residence.

Obvious Implications:
Pied a terre increase (over time)
Rental building increase

Possible additional implication:
If those people with rent controlled/stabilized rentals but also own co-op/condo list the latter as primary residence, LL can use it as evidence against them?

Note I'm referring to the general 17.5% abatement from the state, not programs for specific new construction buildings.

For 2012, it was $13,692, down 2.6% from 2012.

2014: $13,619
2015: $14,200

Seems like your rate of increase has been minimal for the past 6 years.

NWT, It seems there is a cap of 8% increase every year on large coops. But your taxes seem to have gone up more than that.
http://www1.nyc.gov/site/finance/taxes/property-determining-your-assessed-value.page

Taxes are still the biggest reason I do not want to deploy more money in NYC real estate except for perhaps single family house which have 20% cap over 5 years. Fortunately, oil/gas prices have remained low and refi mortgage rates are very low which have kept a lid on coops maintenance payments.

There remains a ridiculous tax system in NYC. I have a large loft in the east village. When I bought it in 2004, the taxes were about $12K. They are now $35K. My friend, with a loft +/- 500 sq ft larger than mine, and with significantly more value being in Soho, both in small (less than 10 unit) condos, and he pays half what I pay. And, anyone with high end coop is grossly undertaxed. The nine apartments in my building pay almost $400K in property taxes. Nutty.

nyc_sport, How may sq feet. Was it a condo conversion when you bought it?

The assessed value of your property is the key determinant .
The tax rate is relatively flat for many years , but the "valuation" process is non-transparent and the assessment is based on 1 of 4 formulas that the NYC Dept. of Finance uses . The highest value is yours ... welcome to NYC