5 RSD 12A--are they crazy??

Squid, it's an ego thing. If someone else was able to sell for $1.8 3 floors down, then I can tell the seller that it's $200K increase per floor.

2 months later, it will be $100K per floor.... then.... oh sh&t, I meant - $100K per floor.

the way the big guys work is to bring in exclusives... you get points for that. selling is a whole different ball game.

Right. Then the rest of us get to heat up a bowl of popcorn, sit back, and enjoy the chop-fest. Or should I say chip-fest? A little nibble here, a little nibble there, chip, chip, chip away at the price til the listing's so stale no one even cares anymore.

to uws experts, im abt to start looking for a 2br on the uws , and i came across this thread
any info on 10 W.66th? noticed a 2br 28 e is listed at 2.4, when looking at the past sales, higher floor, same layout on 30 and31 went for 1.65 and 1.75...is that the same deal as 5 rsd, or were prior sales fire sales... is this building worth looking into or arethe apts overpriced?

a lovely 3 brm family apt ----- with only one bathroom. in our forefathers day, they used to call that a tenement. this is an irresponsible broker. no where does it say estate condition. are you supposed to read into the fact that it hasn't been on the market for 35 years that the owners didn't care to upgrade --ever?

>no where does it say estate condition

The language seemed kind of obvious to me. That and being in the market for a $2MM+ apartment, I have a reasonable bit of intelligence to be able to understand what was written.

There's a second bath between the two back bedrooms. In the lower-floor A's, there's a half-bath to the left of the front door. That may be where this one's washer/dryer hookup is, but hard to tell with the sloppily-drawn plan. The asking is a stretch. It'd clean up for a lot less than $700K.

Here is another classic case of this idiocy at 77 White (one loft unit per floor). Every floor is basically the exact same layout and finish (with small variations). Floor 3 just closed in November 2010 after 440 days on the market, priced chopped from $2.695MM to a final selling price of $1.762MM. And then floor 4 goes on the market at $2.379MM just as floor 3 closes at $1.762MM. What are these people thinking? I guess being one floor higher in the exact same layout and finishes is worth that extra $617,000....

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/building/77-white-street-manhattan

Restore: to bring back to original, normal, or functioning condition.

;)

matsonjones, that's the Mudd Club.

Oh, look, the listing even says so, and there's a link. Never mind. Sorry.

Agree over-priced. But won't take $700K to fix--about half that if total gut. Agree with NWT on that. You would be hard-pressed to spend that kind of money on a place this size unless you want it to look like a sultan's condo in Dubai.

Kyle - you think it could be done for $350? It looks like it will need new floors, new electric, I'd assume full kitchen and bathrooms gut, plaster/paint. We were recently got an estimate of $100K for reno work on a good-condition 3-br unit needing only paint/plaster work, a wall or two built to bump out kitchen, and some demo/rebuilding of existing built-ins.

The unit discussed in this thread appears to need FAR more work. I don't think $700 is that far off, really (though I don't have hands-on experience). Especially if you want the job done correctly (ie higher-end appliances). Am I wrong?

By the way, can you recommend a good architect? Sounds like you've had lots of experience.

Wow. I saw 12A today and it is even worse and more overpriced than this discussion suggests. Needs a total gut. Everything. I asked the broker about 9A and she said, well, this is what the owner wanted to ask. She actually sounded embarrassed. Plus, I've realized something about Riverside -- the views NW and especially SW are actually far favorable to the straight western view, which is what this apartment offers. You get to see apartment buildings in Jersey! Awesome! At 5 Riverside, the massive Trump Place buildings block any view and much of the southern light.

Good luck with that $2.4 list...

Downtown--I haven't seen the unit but agree with you re: the western views in that neck of RSD. Personally, I prefer the views higher up the Drive where the highway isn't as prominent and you're not looking south at Trump's monstrosities. Plus, I think the Jersey skyline is less of an eyesore further north.

Interesting. So then the views from this penthouse terrace unit at 37 Riverside should be pretty good, then, no?

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/541901-coop-37-riverside-drive-upper-west-side-new-york

mj, personally, if I'm gonna be on RSD, I'll always prefer something with a prominent western exposure. There was an amazing estate PH at the Normandy a few months back that had everything BUT a western view. The space was amazing, the south and north views were gorgeous but no sunset! No direct river! No watching one boat sail lazily by or tracking the hawks as they patrol up and down the Drive.

So, yes, the PH at 37 is, I'm sure, great but definitely not the Nirvana that most RSD apartment hunters are looking for (IMHO, of course).

All this said, there are definitely areas of RSD that are simply more picturesque than others. For me, that would be anything from around 100th to approx 116th (though if you can get into one of the great old buildings that have direct views of the Soldiers and Sailors--like 180--that's huge). You get the park, the river, but it feels more mellow north of 96th.

Bram, my top 3 bldgs in northern stretch of RSD:

1) 404
2) 258
3) 355

10023--yep, 355 and 258 are very good. I also like 285, 395, and 417--the high floor, river facing apartments there are spectacular. 355 and 417 have high ceilings, which is a real plus IMO. The Paterno is a bit grungy but has amazing bones--a high floor there would be grand.

404 I'm not as crazy about, though have only seen one unit there, so can't be too quick to judge.

I thought (because I don't know the area very well), that addresses such as those given by nyc10023/bramstar in that northern stretch of RSD would be way too far north to be considered desirable - or is Riverside Drive its own ecosystem?

mj--That northern stretch of RSD is becoming far more desirable. Remember, back in the day anything north of 86th street was considered sketchy. Buildings like 180 RSD, which are today considered top-tier, were once thought of as being north-of-prime.

There are some gorgeous prewar buildings running up northern RSD (like those mentioned in the posts above). All in all, good buys can be had since the area doesn't (yet) command the uber-prices seen only slightly farther south. Infrastructure is good (especially around the Columbia area) and the nabe is pleasant and attractive, and you have a beautiful stretch of Riverside Park in your back yard, just like the big dogs down in 'prime'.

bramstar; thanks for the terrific information...

First price cut on #12A: $200K, to $2.195MM.

how would you compare this place to 300 RSD? assuming that 9A went in the region of $2.1 million (which is a complete guess), seems like location premium washes with condition premium?

Bram: here's how I figure--and I'm pretty good at this:
Kitchen: $70K
Baths (2): $70K
Floors: $30K (that's being very generous)
Electrical: $30K
Mouldings, carpentry, doors, etc: $30K
Skim/paint: $25K
Total: $255k

If total is $300K, this leaves $45K for misc like some window replacement, new a/c's, super-duper bath upgrades. No way are you spending double this even if you think I've underestimated something unless you are a tasteless mobster who wants to gold plate the walls.

Second price cut on #12A: $220K, to $1.975MM.

So, to answer squid's question: Yes, the original price was crazy, but neither the sellers nor the brokers seem to have had much conviction about it.

I'll never understand the logic behind aspirational asking prices. Long-term lingering and multiple price cuts just make the listing stale. If non-professionals like me can plainly see the original ask was ridiculous, why would the real estate professional handling the listing not seem to have a clue? Is it seller pressure? We see this happen over and over again--stupid-high ask, then price chop after price chop until the listing either (eventually) sells or just sort of fades away...

up

Third price cut on #12A: $225K, to $1.75MM. I think it's fair at this point to call the strategy a failure.

lets wait until june and call it stupidity.

here is the deal, none of us can deny the seller the right to test the market. Selling real estate tends to be about the need for liquidity or need to move on due to some other pressure. usually they are linked. Some sellers just want to test the market, to see for themselves that the asset truly is not worth what they think or hope its worth. Fact is, in all market conditions there are unrealistic sellers that really have no intention of selling unless they get their # because their product is so unique and so amazing that a special buyer will pay up for it. Then you got unrealistic sellers that have to sell, and the true colors play out over time. This seems to be the latter case here looking at the price cuts recently. Problem is, if it doesnt work in the next 4-5 weeks, your in June and demand likely will not sustain current levels...they should have done this 2 months ago.

A far better strategy is evident in this new listing at 160 RSD:
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/603793-coop-160-riverside-drive-upper-west-side-new-york

Yes, a secondary line but in an uber-prime building and priced to spark plenty of interest. I wouldn't be surprised to see this one trade several points above ask.

By the way, 5 RSD 12A has now 'strategized' themselves into such a hole that it's unlikely they will even achieve the price of the 9A comp, which was also an estate condition unit. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

This is probably one of those cases where a broker who had offered lower pricing, with the authority of experience and comps behind it, would have gotten their seller a better dollar outcome in the long run.

But speaking as a real estate agent, you can't make people believe you. Some people have to learn for themselves.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

Well, finally--a seller at 5 RSD with some sense:
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/605052-coop-5-riverside-drive-upper-west-side-new-york

A tad smaller than the A line but the same great views and nicely updated--a big plus when compared to 12A's estate condition. Looks like 12A has definitely blown it here--they're gonna have to drop even further if they want to compete with the new, fresher listing.

Bramstar: 12A, condition aside, is one room bigger, which by some metrics, is an extra 500k.

nyc--yes, 12A has a FDR but 13C's condition, good layout, and corner location make it a potential competitor. My point is that 13's ask of $1.5 is far more reflective of the market than 12's initial ask of $2.4, which is where this thread originally started. It shows a seller who is well-informed and reasonable and my prediction is the unit will draw interest and go into contract at somewhere near ask, perhaps minus a couple points, rather than linger for ages on the chopping block like 12A has done.

#13, perfect for asians, not so good for americans.