1 BR / Studio Conversion - PERMIT FEES

That is too expensive if you are not touching anything else. I know someone can do it for half of that price.

They may be referring to the "total cost" of the permitting process. This involves an architect to draw up the plans, DOB fees, an expediter to facilitate the permit process, and the final signoff after the work is done. The range is based on what an architect would charge you - they vary widely. That being said, there are less expensive architectural firms that would lower the cost by half.

Bdevil,

I am waiting for my architect to call back wiht price sin the meantime I am pretty sure you must by law remove the 2nd kitchen. I am going to get confirmation but i think it will require more work then you think

Bdevil,

Do you know if you have to change the c of o?

My architect would be around $4,500.00 to file and survey, there would a fee to pull the permit around $100.00. You would also need to do an asbestos report which would an additional $400.00.

You need to remove the 2nd kitchen, however if you are not changing the c of o you might not have to remove it

You can't legally just "punch a hole in the wall". Any change in egress and occupancy needs plans and approval. I think $9,000 is about right. Of course, it doesn't include the legal fee to change the coo and the actual work. If you're lucky, you can do the minimum legal to combine for 30-35K.

rmrmets,

I think you're right that the quotes do include the combined costs of all the parties involved -- expediters, permit fees and architect costs. So my next question is, can I hire those people myself or do I have to rely on a contractor to get them for me?

And maly, I realize that I can't put a hole in the wall without a permit. My question was whether the cost of obtaining the permit as quoted was reasonable. Also, according to my research, one need not change the COO when putting a door between the apartments. The law changed in 1998 to require only a letter of completion following the conversion as opposed to an altered COO.

Thanks for everybody's input so far!

maly,

Are you saying that if you combine you need to change the c of o? where do you get the 35k from?

The coop and condo might require the rules to be followed; you don't want an orphan unit without a kitchen with a door through the next unit.
Plans and permit filed with DOB: $8,000
removal of kitchen: $8,000
new door: $3,000
minimal finishing work (prep, paint, refinish floors): $6,000
legal fees: $4,000
extra 10% to cover surprises: $3,000

If I can get those prices I would be rich already. 3k for a door?
8,000k just to remove the kitchen? Where are you getting these prices from?

You do not need a new c of o for combining 2 apartments. 8,000 for filing is very expensive for this kind of work, this is alt 2 and there is no design involved as far as I concern. I wish I can charge that kind of money. And like primer05 said, 3,000 for a door and 8,000 to remove a kitchen is way too much. You might not even need a door. I don't get that 6,000 for finishing work either.

Primer, I guess I'm calling you next time I want something done. I can't even get a contractor to get out of bed for under $10,000.

i get it, maly. wonder who else does.

Maly,

Don't get me wrong, it is not my favorite thing to do but I do know that it is not easy finding someone so I do try to squeeze in smaller projects once and a while

Is this a prewar? Are you going to get snagged on the new lead paint law?

@primer. Tell him about the lead paint law.

Why did you sign papers BEFORE you figured cost? Are you nuts?

Do you know how to work a sledgehammer?

Please tell me you read the building rules on this. Some buildings don't like to combine units and in others the monthly fees are very high for a combination. Much higher than a similar sized existing unit.

The new lead law is quite simple and not as big of a dealas people think. If lead is detected on any part of the walls that are going to be effected then we must take different steps then we would if no lead is present. It deals with more protection and cleaning then anything else.

I'm going to get raked over the coals for this, but try some of the Chinatown expediters. They can refer you to an architect who will do the basic drawings for a few hundred dollars.

Its not so much the drawings, its the expeditor and filing

Primer: I haven't filed for a combo in a few years, but how much does an expediter charge for filing these days? And what is the range of prices? I used a Chinatown expediter 7 years ago, and from what I remember, the fees were a lot lower than other downtown expediters.

I will find out, usually I just refer my clients to my expeditor, who happens to be Chinese. Yip Yee is her name but i do not know exactly what she charges.

The prices can vary any from 1,000-$5,000.00 depending on the expeditor.

This what I know:

My architect would charge about:$4,500.00 which includes a survey, a dob filing with architectural signing and sealing and expediting. It also includes the required inspection byh the architect.

If it is required that you need a new C of O that could add a few thousand dollars. If i had an address of the new place I would be able to say if a new one is needed or not

Your connecting wall is probably sheetrock or cement and not load bearing. The coop
super and/or a good architext can tell you. Breaking and re-framing sounds like a
$500-$1000 job including all the materials.

I dont see whay you need to file with DOB, other than to possible change certificate
of occupancy, which you might be able to do yourself. Contact DOB via e-mail or in
person and learn what you need to do from them. DOV can also advise rre cost.

Primer: so, one could contact an expediter directly, and have them recommend an architect just for drawing. I don't remember needing an architect to close out the permit.

rb345,

I'm fairly certain that the connecting wall is not load bearing based on the rudimentary floor plan provided by the broker. However, I'm not sure what the wall is made of -- whether it's sheetrook, cement or brick. I do know that the building was put up in the '50s does that tell you anything? And should the price be significantly different depending on the type of material -- e.g. sheetrock vs. cement?

Everybody's comments are really helpful. Thanks!

nyc10023,

How does one find these chinatown expediters?

Thanks!

I dont know why they couldnt. The architect usually deals with the expeditor but a person can call one, will they recommend an architect? I dont know. Why call the expeditor first, why not find an architect who will do the whole thing for a good price. I would not suggest a person call an expeditor by themselves because they do have relationships with the architects and they need to keep those relationaships so they get things done faster.

When I say i refer my clients to my expeditor I have them use my architect or have their architect use the expeditor. There have been some instances when my client hired their own architect who used his expeditor and my clients thought it was taking to long so they did end up speaking to and hiring my expeditor directly

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/20/realestate/20epa.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=lead%20paint%20law&st=cse

"Since April 22, all professional renovation projects in apartments and homes built before 1978 %u2014 the year the use of lead in paint was banned %u2014 that test positive for lead have had to meet federal guidelines and be performed by workers certified in lead-safe practices. Many older apartments in New York, remodeled more than once over the years, have long since been divested of their lead paint. But in a number of cases, contractors said, complying with the new rules could more than double the cost of renovations.

New York City already has some of the country%u2019s strictest lead-paint laws, but the new regulation is being met with concern among contractors and building managers. The main difference for homeowners in New York is that guidelines regulating work in common spaces will be extended to individual apartments. Any area greater than six square feet that tests positive for lead paint is included."

"Even for the simplest job there will be a higher price tag, according to contractors. For instance, because of the precautions, the repainting of a room that would have cost $500 could now cost more than $1,000.

To start with, furniture and equipment has to be wrapped in plastic at least 6 mils thick (a typical kitchen trash bag is around 1 mil). Similarly, floors, doorways and windows have to be lined with plastic and workers must wear protective gear.

There are also special vacuums needed for cleanup, costing as much as $850. Training and certification classes cost roughly $180 to $250 per student, and a business would have to pay an additional $300 to register as certified."

This is the lead paint law I was talking about. . .

Needs,

Nice article. We do charge more if there is lead but we do not pass along the costs of buying a new vacuum.

If it costs me 850 for a vacuum but I don't throw it away after one use. Is 6mil more then 3 mil? Sure but in no way is the price doubled if there is lead.

The other reason to make sure to get all the paperwork in order is when it comes time to sell, the buyer may not be able to get a mortgage if the COO and permits are not properly filed/signed off on. In 2009 we had one deal fall through because the permits were never closed and the COO was not updated on an apartment join. The apartment we did finally close on, had one open permit that required opening up a wall for an inspection in order to close out. If nothing else, going through the headache now may save a much bigger problem down the road. 10k might be a lot now, but losing a deal in 5 years may be much more expensive.

Yep, absolutely. Many people never get their job signed off with the DOB. Something which totally bites them when they go to sell.

Primer: of course, it's easier to find an architect who'll then deal with expediter. It sounded like bdevil has done that and found it $$$. Just a suggestion to try to save some $. It may or may not be cheaper. But the way I did it once was to find a GC first, then the GC recommended an expediter who had a connection to an architect who charged a few hundred dollars for drawings ($500?).