Don't know why I didn't think of asking this before, but here it is: I live in a concrete condo. The floors, ceilings, interior and exterior walls are 12 inches of masonary, (it is blessedly quiet) the exterior is brick clad, whole thing well over 100 years old. The radiator bangs like a son-of-a- b!tch. To deal with it, I turn off the radiator at night, and on again in the morning. I've had... [more]
Don't know why I didn't think of asking this before, but here it is:
I live in a concrete condo. The floors, ceilings, interior and exterior walls are 12 inches of masonary, (it is blessedly quiet) the exterior is brick clad, whole thing well over 100 years old.
The radiator bangs like a son-of-a- b!tch. To deal with it, I turn off the radiator at night, and on again in the morning. I've had plumbers look at it, it is leveled properly, etc., the problem seems to be in the pipe that embedded in the masonary floor. The last plumber said the super was sending too much water up the pipe, and it was getting caught in the T-joint that goes from the vertical pipe into the radiator. Again, this is in the concrete.
I'm pretty sure the pipe in the floor is the condo's responsibility. How do I get them to fix it? Problem two: the beautiful, original herringbone floor would have to be torn up. How am I going to fix that? Don't they have to return it to the original state?
Any ideas?
[less]
as apartment therapy pointed out, the banging is steam coming through water in the pipes. Your best solution for fixing that is not to train your super (or tear up your pretty floor) but to train your neighbors not to partially turn their steam valves (which is bad for the system and will eventually cause leakage anyway).
Side question: what do you mean you turn your radiator "off"? You're not playing with your steam valves are you?
Are the radiators being bled a couple of times a year? I'd start with that -- not yours, but your neighbors.
ali r.
DG Neary Realty
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Response by alanhart
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
Don't forget to read through the comments on the AT thread ... there seem to be quite a few possible causes and (attempts at) solutions.
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Response by needsadvice
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 607
Member since: Jul 2010
I am absolutely playing with the steam valves, I have no choice. I sounds like someone is whaling away on the pipe with a metal wrench, goes on for 5-10 minutes, and I can't sleep through that. I turn it ALL the way off (which takes about 5 full minutes of turning) and ALL the way on. Radiator was bled, tilted, pressure valves replaced etc., etc. Done it all. All of the other radiators are completely quiet and I love steam heat; gets so warm that I have to crack the window even if it's 10 degrees out. Love it.
But it's definitely the pipe in the floor.
How do I get the condo to fix it? If it's in the floor, it's not my pipe, is it?
I haven't read the AT article 'though I certainly shall. I've found that the steam radiators always make a little bit of noise & I like that but we've got a new neighbor who has been putting too much water in her boiler & the pipes have been very noisy this winter & I've wondered if that was the reason.
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Response by needsadvice
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 607
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Where is this AT article? What is AT?
@DRDRD: I had one plumber tell me the super is sending too much water up the pipe. The boiler is his responsibility. He had a bunch of professionals come and clean it last winter, and for a week there was no banging.
I wonder if the professionals fed it the right amount of water, and that's what fixed it . . .
It would be ironic, but typical, if I have the floor torn up, jackhammers in the bedroom, and get it "fixed" only to find out it's the idiot super putting in too much water.
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Response by needsadvice
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 607
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I am caught up in the love/hate relationship that is Pre-war apartment living. . .
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Response by vic64
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 351
Member since: Mar 2010
In most cases, try not to shut the radiator when steam is coming in despite the noise. If you shut the radiator, the steam would be trapped inside the radiator and condenses to water. Water can rusts metal and creates clogs and leaks down the road.
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Response by truthskr10
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 4088
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Thought this thread was about some new fetish, sounded painful.
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Response by OTNYC
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 547
Member since: Feb 2009
Call me crazy but I enjoy the banging. That said, I have 2 little kids who ensure I am awoken every 3 hours; at least with the radiator, I can stay in bed and know it will eventually stop. Babies, not so much.
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Response by OTNYC
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 547
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Truth - thanks for making me laugh. I think Savage wrote a column on "radiator banging" in his Voice column...
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Response by Sunday
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 1607
Member since: Sep 2009
I'm going to pretend I'm above this kind of a respond...
needsadvice, after reading your other posts, I have to ask... What's the matter, you can't afford to buy a place at an uber-prime building that doesn't have these kind of problems?
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Response by Sunday
almost 15 years ago
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I'm NOT going to pretend I'm above this kind of a response...
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Response by igabi
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 1
Member since: Feb 2011
had the same problem in a triplex (small home in qns). the letoff valve/drain needs to be "bled" while the system has some pressure (it's water at 99-100 celsius).lots of junk will come out.bleed it (or ur super) til clear; you may also look at your valves and replace/clean if old/clogged; you'll be fine for 1-2 weeks.then repeat... splurge on a minisplit if allowed, w/ heating abilities.quiet and reliable.
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Response by jas
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 172
Member since: Aug 2009
We recently did what vic64 advised not to do. Have a $1,000 bill to fix my neighbor's ceiling from the resulting water damage-- first quote was for a heart-stopping $8,000!!! Was advised by the plumber to do as front porch recommended.
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Response by drdrd
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 1905
Member since: Apr 2007
The water level has to be monitored & maintained & therefore the level can vary. If you have a one pipe steam radiator, the radiator must be lower on the end with the pipe & the other end of the radiator can be raised with wooden blocks or wedges, thereby allowing the ccoled steam, now water, to return to the boiler to be reheated.
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Response by needsadvice
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 607
Member since: Jul 2010
@vic64: No, I turn it off when it's completely quiet, well in advance of the action.
@Sunday: LOL! Just because I can, doesn't mean I will. For 5 minutes of turning a valve, I'll pocket the extra money.
@DRDRD: The thing is tilted at a 20 degree angle to incoming pipe. I think the building has settled and the pipe branching off the main pipe no longer tilts, so it holds a ton of water. Or it's the idiot super.
So, from all these responses I guess nobody knows how to get a condo to repair something?
I recently replaced a window, because they said the windows are mine. Now that I think about it, that sounds like bull too . . .
What does a condo own, and what does the owner own?
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Response by front_porch
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 5316
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jas: unfortunately I speak from experience. I did the same thing at my beach house and created a leak in my front hall ceiling. I think it took the third plumber to explain to me that I was being an idiot.
needs advice -- AT = the apartment therapy blog. Also, I know it's loud, but you shouldn't be touching those valves. As noted, when you close them, are just creating water to live in that joint and bother you, aside from anything your idiot super is doing.
Sounds like taking out this one pesky radiator might be an even better solution.
ali r.
DG Neary Realty
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Response by needsadvice
almost 15 years ago
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@ALI- That's not a bad idea! Take that puppy out! There's heat to spare in the place.
Or maybe remove it, seal it off, and put in a new one that taps into the vertical pipe, at a point above the floor.
I bet if I threaten to mess with the big vertical pipe, the condo will pay some attention . . .
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Response by Sunday
almost 15 years ago
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needsadvice: "For 5 minutes of turning a valve, I'll pocket the extra money."
That's poor people talk.
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Response by front_porch
almost 15 years ago
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NA, either of those solutions can be discussed with the condo -- but I like 'em both because they both spare your pretty floor.
ali r.
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Response by Reno09
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 45
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Needsadvice - First, I would find out if you have a 1 pipe or 2 pipe system. If it's a 1 pipe, that means that the steam travels up and the condesate (i.e. the water by-product that forms after steam cools) travels down the same pipe. If it's a 2 pipe, then they travel in different pipes. I have a 1 pipe and recently had the same problem. Here are the possible reasons I was told for the noise:
1. Too much water in the boiler
2. Boiler run at too high of a pressure, which pushes the condesate (i.e. water by-product that forms in your radiator as the steam cools and is supposed to drain back to the boiler) back up instead of allowing it to drain
3. Other radiators off the same riser can be putting water back in the pipes. One possible cause is if they don't have the valves turned all the way off or on. You can't adjust the heat/temperature by turning the valve, but some neighbors don't seem to realize this.
4. Riser has water in it, needs to be drained
5. Return (i.e. pipe that goes back to the boiler) needs to be cleaned, maybe there's a clog?
6. Boiler might not be producing "clean" steam - i.e. it hold more moisture than it should. Recommended to add detergent to the boiler
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Response by 875gator
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 193
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How much does it cost to replace the average radiator? Please, no 'it depends' qualifiers.
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Response by Sunday
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 1607
Member since: Sep 2009
$875
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Response by drdrd
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 1905
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$23.95
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Response by alanhart
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 12397
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Pay what you wish ... you must pay something.
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Response by birdier
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 50
Member since: Nov 2008
depends how many British Tiny Udders (BTUs) the rating unit radiates; in a whey, size matters
'/%3e%3c/g%3e%3c/svg%3e)
http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/ny/noise/steam-hammer-season-noisy-radiators-pipes-005805
as apartment therapy pointed out, the banging is steam coming through water in the pipes. Your best solution for fixing that is not to train your super (or tear up your pretty floor) but to train your neighbors not to partially turn their steam valves (which is bad for the system and will eventually cause leakage anyway).
Side question: what do you mean you turn your radiator "off"? You're not playing with your steam valves are you?
Are the radiators being bled a couple of times a year? I'd start with that -- not yours, but your neighbors.
ali r.
DG Neary Realty
Don't forget to read through the comments on the AT thread ... there seem to be quite a few possible causes and (attempts at) solutions.
I am absolutely playing with the steam valves, I have no choice. I sounds like someone is whaling away on the pipe with a metal wrench, goes on for 5-10 minutes, and I can't sleep through that. I turn it ALL the way off (which takes about 5 full minutes of turning) and ALL the way on. Radiator was bled, tilted, pressure valves replaced etc., etc. Done it all. All of the other radiators are completely quiet and I love steam heat; gets so warm that I have to crack the window even if it's 10 degrees out. Love it.
But it's definitely the pipe in the floor.
How do I get the condo to fix it? If it's in the floor, it's not my pipe, is it?
Or, you can just give in to it!!!
http://www.studio360.org/blogs/studio-360-blog/2011/mar/09/radiator-symphonies/
Tina Fallon
Realty Collective, LLC
I haven't read the AT article 'though I certainly shall. I've found that the steam radiators always make a little bit of noise & I like that but we've got a new neighbor who has been putting too much water in her boiler & the pipes have been very noisy this winter & I've wondered if that was the reason.
Where is this AT article? What is AT?
@DRDRD: I had one plumber tell me the super is sending too much water up the pipe. The boiler is his responsibility. He had a bunch of professionals come and clean it last winter, and for a week there was no banging.
I wonder if the professionals fed it the right amount of water, and that's what fixed it . . .
It would be ironic, but typical, if I have the floor torn up, jackhammers in the bedroom, and get it "fixed" only to find out it's the idiot super putting in too much water.
I am caught up in the love/hate relationship that is Pre-war apartment living. . .
In most cases, try not to shut the radiator when steam is coming in despite the noise. If you shut the radiator, the steam would be trapped inside the radiator and condenses to water. Water can rusts metal and creates clogs and leaks down the road.
Thought this thread was about some new fetish, sounded painful.
Call me crazy but I enjoy the banging. That said, I have 2 little kids who ensure I am awoken every 3 hours; at least with the radiator, I can stay in bed and know it will eventually stop. Babies, not so much.
Truth - thanks for making me laugh. I think Savage wrote a column on "radiator banging" in his Voice column...
I'm going to pretend I'm above this kind of a respond...
needsadvice, after reading your other posts, I have to ask... What's the matter, you can't afford to buy a place at an uber-prime building that doesn't have these kind of problems?
I'm NOT going to pretend I'm above this kind of a response...
had the same problem in a triplex (small home in qns). the letoff valve/drain needs to be "bled" while the system has some pressure (it's water at 99-100 celsius).lots of junk will come out.bleed it (or ur super) til clear; you may also look at your valves and replace/clean if old/clogged; you'll be fine for 1-2 weeks.then repeat... splurge on a minisplit if allowed, w/ heating abilities.quiet and reliable.
We recently did what vic64 advised not to do. Have a $1,000 bill to fix my neighbor's ceiling from the resulting water damage-- first quote was for a heart-stopping $8,000!!! Was advised by the plumber to do as front porch recommended.
The water level has to be monitored & maintained & therefore the level can vary. If you have a one pipe steam radiator, the radiator must be lower on the end with the pipe & the other end of the radiator can be raised with wooden blocks or wedges, thereby allowing the ccoled steam, now water, to return to the boiler to be reheated.
@vic64: No, I turn it off when it's completely quiet, well in advance of the action.
@Sunday: LOL! Just because I can, doesn't mean I will. For 5 minutes of turning a valve, I'll pocket the extra money.
@DRDRD: The thing is tilted at a 20 degree angle to incoming pipe. I think the building has settled and the pipe branching off the main pipe no longer tilts, so it holds a ton of water. Or it's the idiot super.
So, from all these responses I guess nobody knows how to get a condo to repair something?
I recently replaced a window, because they said the windows are mine. Now that I think about it, that sounds like bull too . . .
What does a condo own, and what does the owner own?
jas: unfortunately I speak from experience. I did the same thing at my beach house and created a leak in my front hall ceiling. I think it took the third plumber to explain to me that I was being an idiot.
needs advice -- AT = the apartment therapy blog. Also, I know it's loud, but you shouldn't be touching those valves. As noted, when you close them, are just creating water to live in that joint and bother you, aside from anything your idiot super is doing.
Sounds like taking out this one pesky radiator might be an even better solution.
ali r.
DG Neary Realty
@ALI- That's not a bad idea! Take that puppy out! There's heat to spare in the place.
Or maybe remove it, seal it off, and put in a new one that taps into the vertical pipe, at a point above the floor.
I bet if I threaten to mess with the big vertical pipe, the condo will pay some attention . . .
needsadvice: "For 5 minutes of turning a valve, I'll pocket the extra money."
That's poor people talk.
NA, either of those solutions can be discussed with the condo -- but I like 'em both because they both spare your pretty floor.
ali r.
Needsadvice - First, I would find out if you have a 1 pipe or 2 pipe system. If it's a 1 pipe, that means that the steam travels up and the condesate (i.e. the water by-product that forms after steam cools) travels down the same pipe. If it's a 2 pipe, then they travel in different pipes. I have a 1 pipe and recently had the same problem. Here are the possible reasons I was told for the noise:
1. Too much water in the boiler
2. Boiler run at too high of a pressure, which pushes the condesate (i.e. water by-product that forms in your radiator as the steam cools and is supposed to drain back to the boiler) back up instead of allowing it to drain
3. Other radiators off the same riser can be putting water back in the pipes. One possible cause is if they don't have the valves turned all the way off or on. You can't adjust the heat/temperature by turning the valve, but some neighbors don't seem to realize this.
4. Riser has water in it, needs to be drained
5. Return (i.e. pipe that goes back to the boiler) needs to be cleaned, maybe there's a clog?
6. Boiler might not be producing "clean" steam - i.e. it hold more moisture than it should. Recommended to add detergent to the boiler
How much does it cost to replace the average radiator? Please, no 'it depends' qualifiers.
$875
$23.95
Pay what you wish ... you must pay something.
depends how many British Tiny Udders (BTUs) the rating unit radiates; in a whey, size matters
Whey?