Profiles in Greed: The $500,000 year School Supt.

Greed gets you in the end. Always does. Taxpayers all over Long Island are dropping the hammer on school districts spending. Enough is enough.500k for a risk free profession?!? R they kidding me?!

And just look at what top administrators at hospitals are raking in.

You could not pay me $500,000 to go from Purchase to Syosset every day!

"But remember, $500,000 superintendant pay packages are not the problem. It's those pesky $58,000 a year teachers who are bankrupting America. "

They are both the problem. Did you miss the part in the article that most teachers in the distrcit (and in many districts in LI and westchester) make over $100k/yr (many at $150k+ plus benefits). Noone's complianing about teachers making $58k.

What is it about a seasoned teacher that makes her ineligible for a salary of $150K? Is it her Master's degree?

"Noone's complianing about teachers making $58k."

Have you watched Fox News lately?

What is it about a seasoned teacher that makes her ineligible for a salary of $150K? Is it her Master's degree?

Because nowhere else do they make that kind of salary + benefits for being a teacher. they finish their day at 3pm and have ~3 months vacation. there are people who have masters degrees who work 50 weeks a year 60 hours a week who dont make anywhere near what they are making but have to pay for them to continue make that kind of money and benefits. i know lawyers in the public sector as well as architects and engineers and other professionals with masters degrees who make half what they are making (assuming the $150k we were talking about) without the generous benefits.

"Because nowhere else do they make that kind of salary + benefits for being a teacher."

Your 100% right. College professors, for instance, don't make anywhere near what a teacher makes. They make DOUBLE and TRIPLE. And they work far fewer hours since they spend most of their time researching and publishing articles in obsecure journals that nobody reads.

They start their teaching hours earlier than most people, and 3pm is merely when their class instruction time ends. There's a lot more to the job, and it involves long hours.

Your argument is the classic race-to-the-bottom, and starts out with the supposition that teachers should earn less than everyone else. It's sad. And it's an attitude that goes a long way to explain why the US isn't anywhere near the top in any measure of education or knowledge in industrialized countries worldwide.

U.S. Is Urged to Raise Teachers’ Status

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/education/16teachers.html?scp=2&sq=teachers&st=cse

Feb. 23 (Bloomberg) -- Pete Carroll, the University of Southern California football coach, was the highest paid employee at a private college in 2006-2007, leading school presidents, investment officers and medical professionals.

Carroll, who led the Los Angeles university to a pair of national championships, made $4.42 million, according to a survey by the Chronicle of Higher Education released today. He was followed by David Silvers, a dermatology professor at Columbia University in New York who made $4.33 million; and Michael Johns, the executive vice president for health affairs at Emory University in Atlanta, who was paid $3.75 million.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aU52P6i3W36g

If you want to pay teachers less, you will need to substantially reduce the requirements and accept lower calliber teachers. You can't pay teachers sh*t AND expect them to have a master's degree. The only college students who would beome teachers would be those who graduated with the worst grades and know squat.

"Your argument is the classic race-to-the-bottom, and starts out with the supposition that teachers should earn less than everyone else. It's sad. And it's an attitude that goes a long way to explain why the US isn't anywhere near the top in any measure of education or knowledge in industrialized countries worldwide. "

That's false- the countries that are ahead of us arent ahead because they pay their techers more. In canada teachers are capped at less than half the $150k that teachers in NY are making and they are way ahead of us in the international rankings. Same for the other countries.

"If you want to pay teachers less, you will need to substantially reduce the requirements and accept lower calliber teachers. You can't pay teachers sh*t AND expect them to have a master's degree. The only college students who would beome teachers would be those who graduated with the worst grades and know squat. "

Right and the architects, lawyers, etc who also have masters degrees without 3 months of vacation that make less then them are the bottom of the barrell. Because the easiest thing in the world to do is pass the bar or the AIA exam and go through all those engineering courses.

"Well worth it. We are consistently one of the top two districts in Nassau County, top 5 in Long Island and top 10 in the state. We are also in the top 150 in the country. Our graduates include Oscar winner Natalie Portman, Screenwriter Judd Apatow, Olympian Sue Bird, Vice Chairman of the Fed Alan Binder, Secretary of Labor Elaine Chao, etc…, etc…, My kids learned Russian in kindergarten, Chinese in first grade, Latin in fifth grade, we have more Intel science semi-finalists than any other high school, it is the main reason I moved into the area."

Alternative point of view.

"Our graduates include Oscar winner Natalie Portman"

Right, because if Natalie Portman had not gone to school in Syosset, she would never have won that Oscar.

The alumni of my mediocre ranked high school includes an NFL player and the current president of Estonia. But, you know what? I'm never going to be a football player or a world leader.

100% agree with Socialist on that one.

I disagree. He could be the leader of Kreplachistan:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/-st%C4%81n

The (general) American culture does not reward brains. That's partly how teachers are getting such bad names. In high school, the popular kids are the athletes and cheerleaders, never the smart ones. Bullies always have the upper hand in this country. Even though we start paying teachers higher salaries, kids will still never aspire to become one because they perceive that as a loser's job. Syosset is purely an disgusting anomaly. Most schools are suffering.

Maybe it's time we flip it around a bit. Seems politicians have given the union controlled public school employees everything they desired for the last few decades. Many now say kids are simply not being educated. Why don't we convert the the whole program to a volunteer system for 10yrs or so and see if students outcomes improve. Seems they couldn't get much worse. Plus we could save some serious loot for taxpayers.

You ready for hordes of kids to be on the streets?

"Why don't we convert the the whole program to a volunteer system for 10yrs or so and see if students outcomes improve."

That's a wonderful idea. Are you willing to teach in the South Bronx for free?

Don't be hating!..I'm just the messenger, the voice of reason if you must. . In a Country void of leadership, you need to think outside the box!

Sharron Angle defends public school teachers. No, that is not a typo. And for those of you who have no clue who she is, Google her. She is perhaps on of the most crazy teabaggers in the country

Sharron Angle Boldly Defends Public School Teachers: They Are Over-Worked And Under-Paid

ANGLE: They don’t get paid like other professionals do. Their three month vacation turns out usually to be more like two months in the summer and they’re usually going back to school so they can learn more so they can stay ahead of you. Their six hour day is more like a sixty hour work week because they have more than they do than the six hours they spend in the classroom. They are dedicated professionals and they are dedicated to you. They are usually very honest, caring individuals and they want what’s best for you. When you talk about the three people who are most vested in education, that’s where our resources should be put, that’s where our concentration should be, that’s what we should be asking ‘what would make a better school?’

http://thinkprogress.org/

Pay Teachers More

Until a few decades ago, employment discrimination perversely strengthened our teaching force. Brilliant women became elementary school teachers, because better jobs weren’t open to them. It was profoundly unfair, but the discrimination did benefit America’s children.

These days, brilliant women become surgeons and investment bankers — and 47 percent of America’s kindergarten through 12th-grade teachers come from the bottom one-third of their college classes (as measured by SAT scores).

In 1970, in New York City, a newly minted teacher at a public school earned about $2,000 less in salary than a starting lawyer at a prominent law firm. These days the lawyer takes home, including bonus, $115,000 more than the teacher, the McKinsey study found.

Consider three other countries renowned for their educational performance: Singapore, South Korea and Finland. In each country, teachers are drawn from the top third of their cohort, are hugely respected and are paid well (although that’s less true in Finland). In South Korea and Singapore, teachers on average earn more than lawyers and engineers, the McKinsey study found.

Starting teacher pay, which now averages $39,000, would have to rise to $65,000 to fill most new teaching positions in high-needs schools with graduates from the top third of their classes, the McKinsey study found. That would be a bargain.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/13/opinion/13kristof.html?_r=1&src=twrhp

I couldn't agree more. All taxpaying parents should have the right to send their children to a taxpayer funded, public school of the design and type they choose. They should have the right to choose with their tax dollars which school offers the best teachers, administrators and facilities that suit their child. Schools should be competing for my child.

I am friends with about a dozen teachers- not one of them works 60 hours a week or anywhere near that.

And 2 months vacation is still way more than the standard 2 weeks most of the rest of the world has.

How do you know how much they work a week? You do know that teachers do a substantial amount of work after the school day? WHen do you think they make lesson plans, grade assignments, do report cards, attend department meetings, go through re-ceritifcation, attend continuning education programs, etc. Oh, and if that is not enough, many of them go to school at night and on the weekends to get their master's degree.

I'm not saying they do no work after the school day- but to say they work 60 hours a week is just not true.

And i know because i asked them (like i said i have a dozen friends or family friends who are teachers) and it wasnt anywhere near that number.

most of them start their days at 8 or 8:30. few of them leave school before 4:00. many of them are involved in after-school activities and clubs. and then they go home and grade papers and exams and plan for the next day. while they may not work 60 hours a week, teachers at the middle school level and above work more than 40 hours a week generally. elementary school teachers, especially the first few years, do not have nearly as much work to do. but they get to teach the same thing over and over to very young children year after year. i did it for a couple of years. i really deal well with young children, but i think i'd have gone ape-shit insane doing it for years and years. it's just not that easy, people.

They start their teaching hours earlier than most people, and 3pm is merely when their class instruction time ends. There's a lot more to the job, and it involves long hours.

Many teachers do end their day around 3:00 p.m. essentially recycling last year's and the year be fore's lesson plan

I am friends with about a dozen teachers- not one of them works 60 hours a week or anywhere near that.

And 2 months vacation is still way more than the standard 2 weeks most of the rest of the world has.

that is true. and an honest teacher will tell you so. Most succumb to group think and like george costanza aren't lying because they "believe it"

that said there are some who do stay extra , put in extra and contribute more than the average. they SHOULD get paid merit raises.

actually, a lot of the developed world has more than two weeks vacation. the benefits in this country suck generally compared to most developed countries, from mat(pa)ernity leave to health care to vacation to sick leave.

Teachers get far more than two weeks. It might be better measured in months. There's nothing wrong with that it's part of the package and many teachers leverage off of it and work other jobs, but you can't have it both ways.

lets lower what we pay riversiders.

TEACHERS AND MOST GOVT EMPLOYEE'S DO NOT NEED UNIONS. Unions should only be reserved for people doing dangerous or manual labor jobs....thats it

Syosset has one heck of a school system.
I'll bet that translates to a huge increase in prop values.
You pay for what you get.

So the super gets $500K and clearly has no incentive to have teachers pay be in reason.

aboutready
about 2 hours ago
ignore this person
report abuse actually, a lot of the developed world has more than two weeks vacation. the benefits in this country suck generally compared to most developed countries, from mat(pa)ernity leave to health care to vacation to sick leave.

Is this information from your "grandmotherly experience"?

By the way, you never told us, your "grandmotherly experience"... how big is your family? how many kids and grandkids?

The taxes are very high in Syosset but its not the only place with high salaries. The schools are very good. Found this link:http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:eDOEoiJ8zPkJ:www.city-data.com/forum/new-york/993186-new-york-governors-salary-vs-school.html edward murphy syosset superintendent&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

Also I remember this from a while ago-not the first time Syosset had superintendent salary issues:

Long Island no more wrote:
Ex-Official Keeping $963,883, Lawyer Says
NY Times: December 10, 1992
A Long Island school superintendent who received a $963,883 payment upon retiring in September has "no intention" of returning any of the money, his lawyer said today.
The payment, the highest on record in New York State, was attacked on Tuesday as excessive by Gov. Mario M. Cuomo and by the State Education Commissioner, Thomas Sobol, who said it was possibly illegal.
Mr. Sobol issued an administrative order today ordering the former superintendent, Edward J. Murphy of Syosset, and the board of the District 3 Board of Cooperative Education Services in western Suffolk County that granted the payment, to justify or return the money to avoid loss of state aid and removal of the board.

Paying superintendants high salaries does not make a school any better. There are plenty of superintendants in poor performing districts that are paid extremely high salaries.

"Syosset has one heck of a school system.
I'll bet that translates to a huge increase in prop values."

I have a relative who lives in Syosset. I just looked up his Zillow Zestimate (yes, I know it's not that accurate) and it is nearly $200,000 less than what he paid in 2005. Uh-oh.

"Many teachers do end their day around 3:00 p.m. essentially recycling last year's and the year be fore's lesson plan"

What about grading assignments? Do teachers recycle grades from the previous year?

When I went to school in NJ, we had one of the longest days in the state... 8:00 - 3:00. Many teachers coached sports teams, helped struglling students, or held detention after the school day so most did not leave until close to 4:00. And many of them coached on Saturdays as well so they were working 6 days a week.

Of the 50 highest paid govt. workers in NY, not a single one was a teacher. Virtually all of them work in mental health. Never knew that was such a high paying field. Time for a creer change perhaps...

http://www.empirecenter.org/files/2010Highest50.pdf

Socialist, do you think you can find a job in mental health?

"Syosset has one heck of a school system.
I'll bet that translates to a huge increase in prop values."

"I have a relative who lives in Syosset. I just looked up his Zillow Zestimate (yes, I know it's not that accurate) and it is nearly $200,000 less than what he paid in 2005. Uh-oh."

Use Mynassauproperty.com to get the accurate assessment/valuation of houses and the tax bills in Nassau county. Houses in Nassau are way cheaper vs CT because the property taxes are so high- mostly the school taxes.

sosh, don't you get it??
the entire economic downturn, attendant 17% unemployment, our deficits and the weakness in our real estate markets are completely the fault of greedy teachers....and government workers (esp those in unions)...

we're broke now...time to cut teachers, etc

socialist still has no good answer to the question of why teachers shouldn't pay for their health care and toward their retirement benefits like everyone else does.

It's the psychiatrists what is bankrupting the State. Sure we need to forcibly keep people like LICcomm off the streets, but do we need to pay the head shrinkers quite so much?

I think the key problem in Long Island is that it's become socially toxic to educated young people. What are left are very very old people and brand-new immigrants, mostly working-class or from the lower middle classes. The Golden Agers stay put, and the latter can't quite afford the most expensive areas.

How about increasing school hours AND the teachers pay? Does that make anyone feel more justified?
Kids don't spend enough time learning anyway... We third world country kids went to school from 8 to 5, and then some after school hours. We don't complain.

no more talk-therapy for LICC---to pricey for his insurance

meds only

A Letter to Scott Walker From a Wisconsin Teacher
One primary-school instructor from a town called Endeavor tells the governor: You can have my money, but I have some questions...
By Adam Weinstein | Sat Mar. 12, 2011 4:52 PM PST

On Saturday, February 19, 2011, I sent the following letter to Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker. It has since been reposted and blogged a number of times, for which I am grateful. However, this blog would not be complete unless I included a copy of it here. And so, here is where it all began:

To the Duly-Elected Governor of Wisconsin, Scott Walker (and anyone else who gives a hoot):

It has only been a week, and I grow weary of the political struggle that your Budget Repair Bill has caused. I am tired of watching the news, though I have seen many of the faces of those I hold dear as they march on the Capitol. I am tired of defending myself to those who disagree with me, and even a bit tired of fist-bumping those who do. I am tired of having to choose a side in this issue, when both sides make a certain degree of sense. And so I offer you this desultory (aimless or rambling) philippic (angry long-winded speech), because at the end of the day I find that though this issue has been talked to death, there is more that could be said. And so, without further ado, here are my points and/or questions, in no particular order.

1. You can have my money, but... Ask any number of my students, who have heard me publicly proclaim that a proper solution to this fiscal crisis is to raise taxes. I will pay them. I have the great good fortune to live in a nation where opportunity is nearly limitless, and I am willing to pay for the honor of calling myself an American. Incidentally, Warren Buffett, the second richest man in the nation (and a Democrat) agrees with me. Your proposed Budget Repair Bill will cost me just under $3000 per year at my current salary, with the stated goal of saving $30 million this year on the state budget. I say, take it. You can have it. It will hurt me financially, but if it will balance the budget of the state that has been my home since birth, take it with my blessing. But if I may, before you do, I have some questions.

If you wished to trim $30 million off of the budget, that works out to about $6.91 per Wisconsin taxpayer. So I must ask: Is it fair that you ask $3000 of me, but you fail to ask $6.91 of everyone?According to the 2009 estimate for the U.S. Census, 5,654,774 people live in the state of Wisconsin. Of those, 23.2% are under the age of 18, and presumably are not subject to much in the way of income tax. That still leaves about 4,342,867 taxpayers in the state of Wisconsin. If you wished to trim $30 million off of the budget, that works out to about $6.91 per Wisconsin taxpayer. So I must ask: Is it fair that you ask $3000 of me, but you fail to ask $6.91 of everyone? I know that times are tough, but would it not be more equitable to ask that each taxpayer in the state contribute an extra 13 cents a week?

Would you please, kindly, explain exactly how collective bargaining is a fiscal issue? I fancy myself to be a fairly intelligent person. I have heard it reported in the news that unless the collective bargaining portion of this bill is passed, severe amounts of layoffs will occur in the state. I have heard that figure given as 6,000 jobs. But then again, you’ve reportedly said it was 10,000 jobs. But then again, it’s been reported to be as high as 12,000 jobs. Regardless of the figure, one thing that hasn’t been explained to my satisfaction is exactly how or why allowing a union to bargain collectively will cost so much money or so many jobs. Am I missing something? Isn’t collective bargaining essentially sitting in a room and discussing something, collectively? Is there now a price tag on conversation? How much does the average conversation cost? I feel your office has been eager to provide doomsday scenarios regarding lost jobs, but less than willing to provide actual insight as to why that is the case. I would welcome an explanation.

If I keep going at my current pace, I will work 2,720 hours this school year, 136% to 156% as much as your average hourly worker.Why does your concern over collective bargaining, pensions, and healthcare costs only extend to certain unions, but not all? Why do snow plow drivers and child care providers and teachers and prison guards find themselves in “bad” unions, but firefighters and state police and local police find themselves in unions that do not need to be effected by your bill? The left wing news organizations, of course, state that this is because these are unions that supported your election bid, while you seek to punish those unions that did not; I would welcome your response to such a charge. You have stated that the state and local police are too vital to the state to be affected. Can I ask how child care, or prison guards, or nurses or teachers are not vital? Again, I would welcome a response.

Though you are a state employee, I have seen no provision in your bill to cut your own pension or healthcare costs. The governor’s salary in Wisconsin was about $137,000 per year, last I checked. By contrast, I make about $38,000 per year. Somewhere in that extra $99,000 that you make, are you sure you couldn’t find some money to fund the state recovery which you seem to hold so dear? As you have been duly elected by the voters of Wisconsin, you will receive that salary as a pension for the rest of your life. I don’t mean to cut too deeply into your lifestyle, but are you sure you couldn’t live off $128,000 per year so that you could have the same 7% salary reduction you are asking certain other public employees to take?

2. Regarding teachers being overpaid and underworked. I don’t really have many questions in this regard, but I do have a couple of statements. If you haven’t already figured it out, I am a teacher, so you may examine my statement for bias as you see fit. I admit I find it somewhat suspect that teachers are mentioned so prominently in your rhetoric; those protesting at the Capitol are indeed teachers. But they are also students, and nurses, and prison guards, and plumbers, and firefighters, and a variety of other professions. If you could go back to “public sector employees,” I would appreciate it. But as far as being overpaid and underworked...I grant you, I have a week’s vacation around Christmas. I have a week off for Spring Break. I have about 10 weeks off for summer. With sick days and personal days and national holidays and the like, I work about 8.5 months out of every year. So perhaps I am underworked. But before you take that as a given, a couple of points in my own defense.

As an educator, I understand how difficult it can be to get young people interested in politics. You have managed to do this in the space of one week.The average full-time worker puts in 40 hours per week, 50 weeks per year, with two weeks’ vacation time. That makes for a grand total of 2000 hours per year. Part of the teachers’ arguments regarding their time is that no one sees how many hours they work at home to grade papers, or create lesson plans, or things of that nature. I am in a rare state, in that I am not one of those teachers. I work an hour from where I live, and I like to keep my work at work. I, therefore, do not bring work home with me, but rather stay at school, or come in early, so that I can grade papers or create lesson plans while at school. So I am more prepared than most to explain the hours it takes to do my job. I also supervise an extra-curricular activity (as many teachers do), in that I serve as the Drama Coach for my school. The school year, so far, has lasted for 24 weeks. I have, in that time, averaged 78 hours per week either going to school, being at school, or coming home from school. If you remove my commute, of course, I still average 68 hours per week, thus far. That means I have put in 1,632 hours of work time this year, which works out to over 80% of what your average full time worker does in a calendar year. If you include my commute, I’m over 90%. If I keep going at my current pace, I will work 2,720 hours this school year (or 3,120 hours if you include my commute). That means I work 136% to 156% as much as your average hourly worker.

As to underpaid — I’m not sure I am underpaid in general, though I do believe I am underpaid in terms of the educational level expected to do my job. I have two Bachelor’s Degrees, and will be beginning work toward my Master’s this summer. By comparison, sir, you never completed college, and yet, as previously stated, you outearn me by almost $100,000 per year. Perhaps that is an argument that I made the wrong career choice. But it is perhaps an argument that we need to discuss whether you and others like you are overpaid, and not whether teachers are.

3. Regarding the notion that teachers that are protesting, or legislators currently in Illinois, are hurting the state. Very briefly, if I may:

Teachers have been accused of shirking their duties by protesting for what they believe to be their rights instead of being in school. The argument has been, of course, that no lessons have been taught when classes aren’t in session. I must submit that lessons in protest, in exercise of the First Amendment right to peaceable assembly, in getting involved as a citizen in political affairs, have been taught these past few days. The fact that they haven’t been taught in the classroom is irrelevant. Ultimately a very strong duty of the school system is to help students become citizens — I think that has clearly happened this week.

As to the legislators, it seems to me as though they feel their constituents deserve to have a length of time to examine the proposed bill on its merits, not vote it straight up or down three days after it was presented. As the current budget does not expire until June, this seems to me like the only response left them in light of your decision to fast-track the bill without discussion. Give them another option, and perhaps they will come back. I can’t say that I agree with their decision, but I can say that I understand it.

4. Regarding the notion that protestors at the Capitol are rabble-rousers and/or thugs. Such name-calling on the part of conservatives in the state and the conservative media could be severely curtailed if you would speak out against it. True, most of the people protesting, if not all, are liberals. Historically, liberals have always tended to think that they have far more support than they actually do. They also (in my opinion) have a tendency to get extremely organized about three months too late, if at all. So you can fault them for their decision-making, but I would ask you to speak out against the notion of thuggery. Again, very briefly:

So far, 12 arrests have been made. Estimates say there were about 25,000 people at the Capitol today, and about 20,000 yesterday. Let’s be conservative (mathematically) and say that 40,000 people protested over two days. That would mean that officers arrested .0003% of all protestors. By almost any definition, that is an extremely peaceful demonstration, and of course you are aware that the U.S. Constitution guarantees the right of peaceable assembly for a redress of grievances. So in the main, these people have done nothing wrong.

5. If I may provide you with a sense of history. You work in the largest and most magnificiently appointed state capitol in the nation, built by Bob LaFollette (a Republican). You work in the same building where Phil LaFollette (a Republican) helped guide Wisconsin out of the Great Depression. You work in the same building where Gaylord Nelson (a Democrat) was the first in the nation to offer rights to unions of state employees, rights that you now seek to overturn. And you work in the same building where Tommy Thompson (a Republican) provided more state funding to education than any other governor before or since. Are your current actions truly how you would choose to be remembered?

6. Finally, Governor, a note of thanks. Whatever the outcome of the next several days, you deserve a certain degree of credit. As an educator, I understand how difficult it can be to get young people interested in politics. You have managed to do this in the space of one week. A number of Wisconsin’s youth support you. A number of them do not. But whatever else can be said of you, you have them paying attention, and thinking about voting, and walking around the Capitol, and turning out to be involved. You have taught your own lessons this week, Governor, and that has its own value.

Thank you for your time,

Eric Brehm

XXX North XXXXXX Street

Endeavor, WI 53930

I hate to be so black-and-white, but pretty much anyone who vehemently argues that most teachers are overpaid and under-worked really has no idea what they're talking about, or worse, has a fairly disgusting agenda. W, thanks for posting that.

I'd just like to thank Wbottom for posting my letter -- it has moved through cyberspace far more quickly and easily than I had ever imagined it would, but thanks for helping to get the word out. The issue is complicated, no doubt, but the more we talk about it, the closer we come to resolution. Thanks again, Eric Brehm