modern spaces:a lesson in being a good buyer

No offense, but what the broker is telling you is true. I don't see anything wrong with their communication with you. Maybe a little abrupt in the response , but otherwise all true information.

BTW- you can NOT bring in a broker any time you want. You must start with the broker otherwise they do not get paid.

Helphome, i dnt cr if u r txtng whl wlkng r vn tkg a sht, ur intl txt wth its cryptc cd is unprfl.

I'm allowed to go to open house w out my buy side broker. It's open house, plus she's telling me that if I want a deal at that building than I have to use their company on both sides buying/selling. Plus, I never confirmed that meeting. I am starting w a buy side broker ... She just doesn't need to b at every first open house viewing I go to. When I sign into open houses I always put my buy side brokers name & company .... But thanks for the comment..I'll consider it after I look up the actual nystate law.

you know, i never do like ms agents but I didn't think his emails were condescending, its just facts and "rules of engagement" especially they have exclusive to the entire building.

and you are right, you can show up at any open houses and put down your buyer agent without him/her being there.

With internet and sites like streeteasy, broker's role becomes less and less significant. you should chose a broker that's familiar in the area that you are interested in and has a full vested interest in representing you.

I'm a buyer as well, and while I'm not pro-broker myself, I actually didn't think that the broker was at all condescending. I read through the e-mails, waiting for the broker's rudeness to start, but it never did. I honestly think that you overreacted.

"she's telling me that if I want a deal at that building than I have to use their company on both sides buying/selling"

I didn't interpret what the broker wrote as meaning this at all. And yes, you are allowed to go to an open house without your buyer's broker, but he/she will have to become involved in the process at some point. The broker is right by saying that your buyer's broker will not get their share of the commission just by showing up at the closing if he/she had not been involved throughout the process in any meaningful way.

I am very surprised that no one has felt that it was pushy & actually misleading. He/she is plainly telling me thatvi may not come to the open house without my broker. Also I was quite open about the fact that I was already working w somebody & was only looking to connect w the sellers agent & not another buy side broker. I sensed anger & spite when told that I couldn't do my own research & that if I did bring in my broker that I would lose my negotiating power. Hey, I'd rather not have to deal w sellers agents or buyers agents. That's 6% I'd rather take off the closing price. I know that I can bring in my broker when I plan to make an offer. I mean what if I was buying a condo sight unseen & my broker contacts them to begin the negotiations ... That would b ok right? What is the diffence. .?

I wonder how accurate his/her statement is that "When you have a broker representing you, the developers needs to pay out a bigger commission and therefore you get a lesser discount on price", and whether (s)he is speaking for himself or herself rather than the developer.

I have always wondered whether selling agents necessarily represent the sponsor's interests above their's, and twhether they impose their own 'rules' on discounts and concessions. If one is to believe what is said on SE, the presence of a buyer's broker in new condo transactions generally does not impact the selling price because from the get go the sponsors have it in their budget that a proportion of buyers will come with brokers. Indeed I suspect that other than for seasoned buyers, brokers may have better negotiating powers and that one may well end up with a better discount with a broker than without.

I do not also think it can be true that if you dont walk in with a broker, that you are not entitled to use a broker. That would be crazy and would deny many buyers the opportunity to be well represented. If I know nothing about RE in NY and walk into a building I like and want to learn more or put an offer then I get denied the opportunity of representation? How am I supposed to negotiate when I know nothing about RE? Surely that cannot be the case. That something is 'standard practice' does not mean it has any legal or binding basis and it would be wrong for him to suggest otherwise in writing.

helphome, think from your perspective and theirs. At the end of the day, this is about a sale, not friendship, not loyalty, nothing but a transaction. Say if the commission is 6% TOTAL that a developer is willing to pay, now you show up with a buyer agent who just literally cut their commission by half. AND, how do they really know that this seller agent isn't giving you his 3%(or partial) cut under table?

In fact, if you did all the work of searching online and finding the building, all without ur buyer agent's help, why would you even use one? unless you are uncomfortable doing the negotiating yourself... truth the matter is, nobody likes to share profits... i don't think that's hard to understand at all. Come to think of it, using a buyer's agent to negotiate a lower price really is conflicting self interest, I mean, if they are getting 3% commission and negotiating down for you only means he/she gets less...

"AND, how do they really know that this seller agent isn't giving you his 3%(or partial) cut under table?"

correction: meant to say this buyer agent....

thats not the point. the point is that i am in my rights to use a buy side broker regardless of how much work i think they did or didn't do. in fact what if my buyers b. was willing to take half of the 3%...i do not appreciate this agent telling me that i will not be able to negotiate a better price unless i use her as a dual broker. its unethical. telling me i cannot come to the open house unless my broker comes..is just insane. at the end of the day its all coming out my pocket. i don't care if its 1%-6%. i have the right to b represented by the broker of my choosing.

matsui....once again i totally agree w ur insights. we r obviously the only non brokers in this chat!!!!

if you want a truly condescending useless broker, I can name you the king of NY in that regard

We are always open to recommendations.

frankly, I think all brokers are condescending and spoiled by the recent RE boom.

some of them still acting like its the golden age, tricking buyers into bidding against themselves.

to top that, I've heard an actual BUYER's agent said after an offer was given "oh, you want to be careful not to offend the seller..." this year, 2011!

there is no such thing as offending offer, either the seller will take it or they won't, simple as that. Money is money, whether that's from an offending buyer or sweet loving grandma, you will pick based on higher price and most financially secure to ensure smooth closing. Too many ppl put their emotions in it a deal that's strictly about financials.

Stupid brokers
All they ever want you to do is buy and sell property.

What the heck are they thinking?

Yeah, plus they're ... SAVVY!

honestly i don't know why i bothered posting here.... i forget its 99.9% brokers/agents. i am going to do every thing possible to make a deal w out any broker on either side. ill contact the owners personally & we can split the 6% & donate it to charity.

That's why they sell a sign call "for sale by owner"

It's funny you need a license to be a broker but no license required if you want to sell your own property.

Are you a first time buyer?

Don't know if broker's e-mail was condescending, BUT having two brokers from the same company represent both the buyer and seller seems like a blatant conflict of interest. Would think of contacting some state agency to inquire about it.

I agree with you helphome, on the substance of your complaint. The e-mails were dishonest ("broker must be with you at open house"), manipulative ("I was actually waiting for you" "effects (sic) your negotiability") and rude ("we do not communicate directly to you".)
I don't think you are right about most posters on this thread being brokers; it's just that we (buyers, sellers, tire kickers) are so used to blatant lies and dishonesty that we are a bit jaded. In essence, this broker is pitching for your business so it would seem incredibly dumb to lie, dissemble and insult you, but it's pretty much par for the course.
Now try to buy a used car; how hard is it not to roll your eyes when the salesman says he has to talk to his manager, or recounts a true-life anecdote about the last person who refused to buy the extended protection warranty? It's a stupid game, badly played, but it does work on the weak minds, and that's why they do it.

why don't you make clear with your buyer's broker that you don't want to look at this building him?
it's not necessarily going to save you $, but it could.
make clear with the sales office that you didn't sign any agreement with you broker and that he represents you in the deals that you want, but he's not your exclusive buyer's broker.

Is this what the world of iPads and iPhones looks like? No capital letters. Little in the way of proper spelling and few punctuation marks?

I don't like it.

(1) The Sponsor has a deal with the marketing agent, wherein they do not generally pay them the full 6% of the sale price as a commission. The commission when the marketing agent serves as both buyer's and seller's agent is generally 4-5% in a new development, or is dealt with on a flat fee type of basis.

(2) Your bringing in of a buyer's agent takes additional funds, at least 1% of the sale price, from the Sponsor, who pays the fee to your broker of choice.

(3) The Sponsor will want to know whether you are using a broker as it effects their net walk away on the unit. Regardless of what anyone here tells you, the Sponsor cares about (a) keeping recorded sales prices high for future sales; and (b) what they clear on any individual unit, unless it's a less desirable unit or one of the last units available and they just want out. They're not going to be as negotiable with you when you have a buyer's side broker because they know they're going to net a bit less. In other words, they take into account the 3% they're paying to your guy, add whatever they have to pay their marketing agent, and go from there. You don't get an additional 3% off if you don't have a buyer's broker, but you will generally see SOME higher amount of discount.

(4) The marketing agent will have your buy side broker sign a relatively standard co-broker agreement. The agreement requires, in part, that the buyer side broker attend and sign in the purchaser and be present any time the marketing agent's employee is there showing the property. Whether they're really going to fight you over this when you show up at the closing with your broker is going to depend on the marketing agent.

(5) There's nothing condescending about the email. Your going over the sales agent's head is a bit of a db move, but that's to be expected in today's real estate market from both sides. Their policy of only wanting to speak with your broker is probably (a) to avoid miscommunication between the parties; and (b) totally reasonable.

Maly. thank u for ur comment. U actually really made my day. I knew i wasn't wrong about the tone & texture of her emails. Highend...I don't know why i would need to tell my broker that I don't want her attending open houses w me. Her & I have an understanding. I like doing my own research, in fact vie been doing it from the start of my search. I made it very clear from the start that I was working w a buy side broker. Thats the whole point of this post. the exclusive belongs to Modern Spaces. I saw a listing on SE that described a sun drenched 2 bed in LIC. No name of building or other info such as cc's or taxes or sq. footage. I would have instantly recognized that info as being a unit at the Murano. Instead I thought I had perhaps found a new resale or a pocket listing /preconstruction. When I clicked on "Contact the listing agent" it led me to an agent from Modern Spaces. I emailed this agent & asked for more info regarding her listing & whether or not it was her exclusive since i didn't want to mislead a buyers agent into thinking she had found a new client. I didn't need her to set up a viewing w the sales director once i knew it was the Murano I knew exactly who to contact to set up a showing. This agent didn't introduce me to this building, she didn't do anything except make an apt. for her boss to show me the 2/2 i was interested in. An apt. that I never confirmed. I was honest & straightforward in my email that I already had someone working for me & this just didn't go over well w said broker. her email to me would've had a whole different tone if I had fallen for the trickery that is the misleading website. Im quite sure that this works out for her agency 99.9% of the time & I cant blame her. I just have seen this done so many times that I thought Id be upfront & avoid any duality. I love the part of the email that says "i assumed ****** would be representing u". R u seriously that ballsy. Y would I have someone from the exclusive listing's office represent me...that works out for the owner of MS but it certainly doesn't help me much. I love my buy side broker....she is willing to take 1% just to negotiate & help us w the legalities of the closing. Ive gotten her so many clients over the course of this year because she is so flexible w her commissions. My second favorite part of the email is that " they don't communicate directly to me". That seems null & void considering the emails she sent directly to me. BTW...the best part of this whole situation is that I contacted the sales office to let them know my situation. I WILL NOT deal w Modern Spaces at all but I would still like a chance to check out the building. If i do choose to buy there it will be through the sponsor directly .....

>Her & I have an understanding.

Egads. Her be unlucky!

http://www.dos.state.ny.us/forms/licensing/1736-a.pdf

"New York State law requires real estate licensees who are acting as agents of buyers or sellers of property to advise the potential buyers or sellers with whom they work of the nature of their agency relationship and the rights and obligations it creates. This disclosure will help you to make informed choices about your relationship with the real estate broker and its sales agents."

I'm not sure to what extent on site marketing agents (who are really licensed brokers in most cases) have to disclose their relationship, but if an exclusive sellers agent meets a buyer he has to ask if they are working with a broker if not, they have to disclose the possible dual agency and have this form signed by you.

Helphome - I'm not going to comment on your main dilemma, but if you want to be treated respectfully in the context of a $600k-$1m transaction and be considered a credible buyer / a good mortgage risk if you have a financing contingency / a reasonable chance of coop approval if relevant / an easy to deal with owner once you close / etc., take the extra 30 seconds to write full words and sentences. I've seen my fair share of bad broker behavior (and the listing without a reference to what building they are representing certainly seems shady) but I do think when you write like a kid you increase the risk of dealing with condescension. The "if I'm writing a check in 2011 they have no right to judge me" vibe is very Real Housewives of NJ and if I was the seller, would give me pause (unless you pay cash and pay above market price)!

Wait wait wait, the OP says he is working with a buyers broker in the 1st post. Then the broker explains a few things and the OP flip out and his story around.

Maybe the rules are set up so there is a policy, so they can avoid dealing with 100 smartass over-reacting liars on a case by case basis...

Just a thought...

and btw, nice trick of the BS broker to get your name and give it to the building 1st. Th

Freebird...true that.
Though this feeling I can't change
But please don't take it so badly
'Cause Lord knows I'm to blame

Nice trick of the BS broker to get your name and give it to the building first? What does that mean?
So the rules according to you are these

1.). A prospective buyer may not attend open house without his/her buy side broker.
2.) A prospective buyer may not communicate directly w the listing agent.
3.) A prospective buyer will only gain some negotiating power when they use the sellers broker as dual representation.

helphome, are you even interested in this building and apartment, or are you just stuck on this horrific personal offense?

I am stuck on helphome's horrific use of "u" for "you" and "r" for "are" and "c" for "see", etc. It's very difficult to take this person seriously, given both the over-reaction to the email exchange (the broker probably thought she was dealing with a 16 year old with ADHD) and the abuse of proper English.

>horrific use of ...

don't become hysterical like apt23.

helphole might be an idiot and you may be very well correct that it is difficult to take her seriously, but the use of "u" for "you", etc. is not "horrific"

h-burg, "horrific personal offense" "horrific use of...." It's not horrifying (you are right), only annoying. I borrowed your horrific and "stuck on"

fair enough.

...

Hi columbiacounty! What did your bankruptcy counsel say?

I'm not sure how this is "a lesson in being a good buyer" - it seems more like a lesson in miscommunication.

I agree, the tone and content of the correspondence leaves something to be desired, at best. At worst, it's a violation of NYS law. But in no way does it teach us anything about how to be a good buyer. A good buyer, armed with an aggressive buyer's agent, would ask that agent to make an appointment to see this unit. If the buyer was interested, his or her agent could submit an offer and make a deal.

Instead, there is some avoidable ill will among the parties involved. If the buyer is genuinely interested in this building, it's a shame to have this miscommunication derail a possible deal.

Tina Fallon
Realty Collective

It was sarcastic ...a lesson in being a good buyer....meaning if i do things her way than I may b lucky enough to buy. Huntersburg..to answer ur ? I don't even know if I'm interested in this building...haha that's the irony. I'll let u know once I have a chance to check it out....W/out any agent from modern spaces.

tina, which part is illegal?

A 16 year old w a fairly large budget who is looking for a 2/2. Money is money & regardless of my horrific use the English language I do know how to sign a check!!!

Sure. It is Queens we're talking about right?

btw....what a racket. I cant blame a girl for being smart & on top of her game. I really wanted to see The Murano so that I could cross it off my list of "maybes" and move on to either, "NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS "or that ultimate goal of "Home Sweet Home". So I came to the conclusion that there was a supremely ugly resentment hanging in the wind that had to be put to rest or given wings. I opted for the put it to bed scenario. It has become clear that she was angry at me for standing her up, regardless of whether or not I did is beside the point. That was just the match that ignited the rest of the correspondence. 1.) she was totally wrong in telling me that if I ever wanted to view the unit that it;d have to be with my broker during an open house. in other words I wasn't getting another private viewing. i had blown the chance for that sort of VIP treatment. Not the smartest tactic if you really think about it. Say I can only come on a tuesday, what then? No can do?? Ok so its easy to spot the first flaw in that reasoning but hey, its not my company so perhaps that is the normal protocol at Modern Spaces. 2.) she was wrong once again in telling me that they cannot correspond directly to me. huh?? Thats the one that makes the least amount of sense since she had no problem responding to my emails when she thought that I was just another dim witted buyer who was falling into her dual agency trap. as soon as she realized that it wasn't gonna go down like that is when she came up with the zero contact w the buyer personally. so transparent. but again perhaps this is the Modern Spaces way. who am I to say. and last but certainly not least #3.) she was pretty bold to tell me that if I used my own broker that I would NOT be able to negotiate a lower asking price. The only way I could have a fighting chance of getting the deal of my dreams would be if I used Modern Spaces as my buy side & sell side broker. This seems to be pretty obvious but who actually comes right out & says something like this. Its like blackmail. haha....So all in all as I step back & analyze this experience I have come up with one last thing to say about it. Good for you lady. Honestly. Im quite sure that her skills as a real estate agency owner have gotten her to where she feels pretty confident that if she turns away 1 little buyer (no Im not spending a million or more only a measly 700-800k) that she wont lose any sleep after all she's got her office right there at The Murano. Its really like stepping into gold for her & her crew. I had the tour....albeit an undercover one. I gave a fake name & she was more than happy to 1.) communicate directly to me ...in fact she kissed my ass. 2.) allowed me a private tour w one of her agents without my broker. So it isn't against the law to view alone 3.) told me that the rockbottom prices could still be negotiated down. Basically the rules only apply when they are benefiting her. But hey....she's the boss so she can do anything she pleases. & no I did not like the building that much. Next week I will take my salesperson test. I will then be representing myself in the future purchase of my first place. 3%....Ill take it. Or leave it depending on the way the negotiations go. What a wonderful country we live in.

Somebody call the WAHHHmbulance

Once again, helphome wins the Longest Unread Paragraph Prize.

you are so wrong, but also boring, that I really can't be bothered illustrating why.

helphome - you're an idiot; or rather, you don't understand NYC real estate, and more specifically new construction, sales; btw, good luck with your sales license but you do know that you're not going to get 3% for yourself, right?

helphome, You need to get a hobby. You have WAY too much time on your hands.

I think buying in NYC is not meant for you. You need to check out the other boroughs.

You are far too sensitive for buying in NYC.

Occupy Murano! Sunday 3pm....By the 94%!
96% if accompanied by Keith! :)