One Brooklyn Bridge Park - Hurricane Damage

"That the female took him up on the "Free" deal was her own choice.
The fun started when the female tenant's boyfriend became irate over RAL's treatment of the girlfriend.
She didn't sign up for a lifetime arrangement to provide RAL with sex in exchange for the space."

wait, so the boyfriend didn't mind that she did it once, he was pissed that she had to do it again?

this ral guy doesn't sound very nice at all.

"When the female tenant found a young boyfriend"

nevermind

"SWE, your slant is just as clear but at least I've always been up front with mine. (though I don't think my opinions are slanted as I work hard to remain objective)"

Talk about someone so blind he doesn't see his own slant.

Again, you tried to pretend A BUILDING WITHOUT WATER was fine. Clearly your standards are built on a platform of either

1) extreme slant
or 2) insanity

> You've been proven wrong on almost everything you predicted about OBBP.

Wow, talk about slant (and now lies).

Building still unsold, correct? Took HOW MANY YEARS to sell this thing? I certainly got that right.
Prices chopped. Certainly got that one right.

And yet you took the opposite site. You've not only been incredibly slanted, you've been PROVEN WRONG.

Whoops.

swe, your're plain crazy. I never presented a building without water as "fine." I presented as challenging, inconvenient and difficult but habitable. I know my slant (an owner in the building) and so does everyone else because I always disclose it unlike so many here who have their own hidden agendas.

And the building is not unsold. It's now a full 85% sold (and I think a shade more actually). How many years it took to sell is an issue for the sponsor, not purchasers in the building. In any event, you continue to attempt to apply pre-2008 real estate sales pace to post-Great Recession real estate conditions. Not exactly apples to apples now is it.

Prices were reduced back in late '09 and early '10 (which happened before you said they would be), but have INCREASED ever since. I've been proven RIGHT as evidenced by the 50% appreciation of my unit in just 2.5 years based on recent closings. So actually you've been proven right on nothing. WHOOPS! Keep smoking whatever it is that you smoke.

Whatever swe is smoking it's not RAL's bullshit.
It's an issue for the sponsor, swe.

"well there's-a
one way out
just can't go out that door
one way out
just can't go out that door
there's a man down there
might be your man
I don't know,
Oh there's a man down there
might happen to be your man
oh Lord he might just be your man
I don't know..."
LORD, HE JUST MIGHT HAPPEN TO BE YOUR MAN
I DON'T KNOW!!!...

Bamp bada ba-bamp badabada
WHOMP ba-badabda bada..."

I must say, it's been quite a treat listening to gator try to talk his way around the bad news like everyone else here is gullible as hell.

At various times, he's tried to argue his special building in zone A was better off than others but that his building was in the same situation as almost every other one because Sandy hurt every hood in the "tri state area"

The line I loved the most was: "Its too early to know for sure, but there is no current expectation of either an increase in common charges or the imposition of a special assessment." Here's what's going to happen- there is going to be a massive assessment early next year for
1) all the direct costs that insurance won't pay upfront and
2) all those niggling costs insurance doesn't pay for- overtime, workers comp, legal, inspections, etc.

Will condo owners get #1 back eventually? I guess, but maybe gator and his Board cronies will keep some for all the cost underestimates for #2.

He's actually lucky that we'll never know how much a hit values took because there won't be any trades printed. No attorney who wants to avoid malpractice will ever ok a buyer to purchase here until every single repair has taken place and the costs documented. The sponsor would be similarly stupid to entertain any sales that would harm the comps for the remaining units.

Pity gator actually. The Gambinos charge twice as much as usual for emergency repairs.

crescent, thanks for being another poster who brings no actual facts to the discussion. My posts speak for themselves so I won't respond to your mischaracterization of what I've written. I will say that I am an attorney and you are simply wrong regarding what you said about potential purchases here.

You're far too transparent to be a good attorney. Disputing one assertion but staying silent on the rest means what??

I'll give you another chance.
Will insurance pay if there is negligence?

http://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/51729

Riversider November 12, 2012 at 9:31 pm #

As of yesterday at One Brooklyn Bridge Park there are still floors with no running water. Those that have water are on temporary pumps. Not all the elevators are operational. The evening of the storm the large garage doors were left wide open on the north side. Once the waters reached the doors the sub basement was flooded. This started a fire and at 12:15 AM I witnessed people evacuating with children and pets up Joralemon Street. The fire was caused by the flooding to the basement though the open garage door.

The flooding on the south side went all the way to Atlantic avenue and it seems the only reason that the flooding on Furman did not come down to Joralemon was because the fire brigade was there pumping out water from the area near the south side of the building during the storm.

Did I mention the garage door was left open!!!! I can only assume they were more worried about residents needing to evacuate (who should of already been evacuated) with their automobiles during the storm than flooding. Many firefighters risked their lives to put out the fire many floors below ground to save residents who did not evacuate.

That post is not accurate in any way, shape or form. No point in arguing with you about it. You will believe who you want (and it clearly won't be me) so it's not worth the time.

Thank you Crescent for the link to the Brooklyn Heights Blog. It does sound scary! The last para. in the post you copied above actually makes sense:
"I would presume their plans to rent out the bottom floors to commercial tenants, such as a grocery store or restaurant, have been greatly diminished."

Gerry's reply on November 13, 2012 at 5:22 am:
I suspect owners of these condos are re-thinking this heafty investment way more cons than pros right now and the vacant retail space will be vacant forever pushing the finances of this condo into distress.
We are happy that we did not move into One BBP these units will be very hard to sell and costly to insure..

------
Moreover, in view of the tragedy at River Cafe, the RFP for a restaurant at pier 6, which didn't suscitate much interest in the past, will appear even more risky.

bagel boy November 13, 2012 at 12:19 am #
I saw the water come up from the promenade. Nothing would have stopped it. Door or no door. And it came up within an hour. The residents there are fools for not leaving. They are lucky the whole place didn’t burn down. I totally get it when you stay to prevent looters or you are too elderly or sick to move but these well heeled idiots could have just left for a hotel. They had over 12 hrs to do it. Instead they stocked up on wine and waited like it was some science project. Dumb dumb dumb !

Wiley E. November 10, 2012 at 11:22 pm #
I wonder if the “tax payers” will be footing the bills for updating 1BBP’s equipment? Wow.

The velodrome would likely to have been a washout. I wonder what would have happen to the proposed Hotel and Condos, if they were in operation? The whole intersection of Furman and Atlantic was under 2′ of water.

No wonder the BBP flooding news has been on the Hush.

buybye, why thank crescent for posting a link with completely inaccurate information? And what's the point in posting other opinions on that thread (which was about the reconstruction of the Fairway market in Red Hook by the way)? It doesn't validate your opinion. If you knew BHB well you would not cite Wiley E. and bagelboy for support.

And if Fairway, which was decimated by the storm, is willing to rebuild in the very same location then it stands to reason that the storm will not have an impact on the prospects of renting out the commercial space to a grocery or a restaurant. This is was the 100 year storm (some say 1,000 year!). Notwithstanding global warming, the likelihood that we experience a similar storm again anytime soon is remote.

Also, any suggestion that "BBP flooding news has been on the Hush" is wrong. Check out BBP's website. The information about the damage sustained by the park is right there in black and white. Don't let facts get in the way of your uninformed opinions. To quote Benjamin Franklin: "Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain, and most fools do."

Oh, gator, ever been out of your insane siege mentality for a single minute? All those posters either live in BH or were there on-site during the storm. What do they gain plotting against OBBP on a Fairway post? You are the 2nd greatest conspiracist after the dummy I saw 10 years ago in Bryant Park: sandwiched in cupboards, shouting 911 is planned by George W. Bush.
Yep, the entire world is fool. You are the one, the only one who knows the "truth" - apparently don't get along well w. her on every OBBP post though. :)

Thank you crescent22 and buybye for all this additional and useful information; this is good for me to know as a potential buyer. I am unlikely to move forward now. I am more convinced OBBP is not a wise move to make given all the information assembled through this thread; it all validates what I saw/heard at OBBP myself, what I have been told by current residents, and read about in e-mails.

Furthermore, this has been further verified by an attorney I know who recommended not to move forward on a contract/closing until all this mess is sorted out ... who knows when this will be (exactly what you said in your post above).

And I agree, the mess at OBBP has not been transparent, and furthermore, has been incorrectly trivialzed and minimized by the sales team/sponsor trying to minimize the fall out on their sales. Not a good way to do business!

buybye, its no wonder why I am here to set the record straight (which you call a siege mentality) when you continue to post-blatantly factually incorrect information. If those posters were on-site during the storm they would be owners and if that's the case why are they more credible than me in your mind? Simply because they support your view/agenda. You asked what they would have to gain, but you don't know do you? For example, Wiley E. has been against housing in the park for a long time, so he is very biased. Anyway none of those three posters live in the building. And how would simply living somewhere in BH give them any information on what happened at OBBP.

And button_down, your willingness to accept the representations of those posters without any skepticism makes we wonder if you were ever really interested in the building and, if you were, how seriously. How has OBBP not been transparent? How was the situation trivialized and minimized by the sales team? Have you spoken to them? Why are we just hearing about it now? And what FACTS do you have to know that what they said is wrong?

Let's put the record straight on the crux of Riversider's post (for others as you won't believe me no matter what I say). Riversider is abjectly wrong. The large garage doors on the north side of the building (the loading dock doors) were NEVER left open. They were blown in by the force/pressure of the water. I know because I walked past the doors when I walked my dog around 6 p.m. before the expected surge. But don't take my word for it because there are photographs that show the doors down and subsequently the doors blown in. I guess I can understand why Riversider thought they were left open as this is how it might appear from the window of a building in BH that has a view of the north side of OBBP (except for the fact that you can still see 2/3 of the doors in the down position), but he jumped to several assumptions, which are just as incorrect. Again the doors were not left open.

I don't think everyone else is a fool (just certain people). Who is this everyone that you are talking about anyway? You and buttondown? Two posters on BHB? What I do think is that there are plenty of message board cowboys that post whatever they what without any regard for the veracity of the content. And I'm not alone. Why do you disregard polisson and nyc_observer? Again I don't know what your agenda is or why you have an issue with OBBP. I do wonder as you have 44 posts and almost all of them have been on this thread. Why is that? But I'll be damned to let your patently incorrect posts go unanswered so that people with a genuine interest in OBBP are potentially misled. If you want to continue to post about OBBP, I certainly can't stop you. But I can provide the other side of the story.

Of course, what continues to get lost in all of this is that, despite sustaining catastrophic damage to its physical plant, responded to it and is in a better position that most other similarly situated buildings. Its board and management company have been praised by many of its residents for the level of response and communication and its transparency unlike many other buildings. OBBP never lost power and all other services were returned basically within two weeks. Difficult and inconvenient without question but not unlike so many who live outside of Zone A. But people like buybye continue to view OBBP in a vacuum as if it was the only building in NYC to sustain catastrophic damage to its physical plant. What about the buildings in Fidi and elsewhere which are advising residents that they won't be able to move back in for another 2 to 5 months.

Everyone's made their respective points time again on this thread now. Everyone should just let this thread die.

Fat chance of that happening , gator.

RAL being involved in any building in any way is a negative.
RAL being involved in a damaged building is not a good thing.

still don't understand, truth, why you wanna cut PAL 1000 times if he didn't do anything to you

Now the idiot's image is complete: walking a dog to witness the flood blow the garage doors at the height of the hurricane, breaching the evacuation order. What for? To save your ticket for a thriller movie, b/c that earmarked money now has to be spent on flooding insurance? Does your statement make OBBP sound more attractive location-wise or construction quality-wise?
On the other hand, I can tell you the reason I post here: to save my ticket to the circus, b/c the clown at OBBP, jumping up and down of madnees, keeps everyone well entertained. Thanks!

gator ... I am not dismissing your information at all and certainly take all this in to consideration; however, in response to:

"And button_down, your willingness to accept the representations of those posters without any skepticism makes we wonder if you were ever really interested in the building and, if you were, how seriously. How has OBBP not been transparent? How was the situation trivialized and minimized by the sales team? Have you spoken to them? Why are we just hearing about it now? And what FACTS do you have to know that what they said is wrong?"

Answers to your questions:
1. It is not a willingness to just 'accpet' the posts; my information is a synthesis of numerous information sources (some more reliable than others) including residents of OBBP, e-mails from the board, information on this and other blogs, attorneys involved in contracts/closings, and my own eyes and information gathering from your staff and other folks in the OBBP lobby
2. You can wonder all you want on my seriousness in the building but I had made an offer and been negotiating on a unit ... which was certainly not for fun!
3. Not transparent in factually stating all the damage/issues and their potential associated costs to fix short and long term; this information has had to be 'pulled out' piece by piece from other sources. I personally operate with a more transparent mindset.
4. Yes, spoken to the sales team as has my realtor/attorney because I was working on a contract.
5. You are not hearing about them for the first time right now; the information was in my first post on this thread after pinkpanther was trying to get more information about going through with a OBBP purchase
6. The FACTS ... what was told to me by sales team did not match all the other hards sources of information; even your own posts appear to trivialize the issues. Slowly but surely you have released more information as the thread has expanded making me question your truthfulness and biases. For example you said the garage was fine but then later we learn there was flooding in there with the doors washed away and cars damaged, etc ... I think this is important information as a potential buyer.

Please explain why anyone would buy in this building near-term unless there was a discount encompassing,

1) 5% simply for lower buyer base - less people inquire, less people bid on any Zone A place;

plus
2) a figure that is equal to worst case repair costs + long-term increases in expenses from insurance, extra safeguards. "Worst case" is defined as twice the first supported documented expense estimate. "Worst case" may have to be defined as expected insurance proceeds too if there is either not an airtight expectation of an insurance recovery or there is an elongated adjustment process.

plus
3) 5% of whatever has to be assessed for to get cash flow in lieu of insurance proceeds for the cost of the loan.

button_down, I believe that I have been direct and forthright in responding to inquiries. As I've stated previously, in the post that started this thread pinkpanther asked about the "impact (if any) this will have on future maintenance or special assessments" and his concern "about rising insurance rates on the building as my lender is now requiring more insurance than typical." My responses were initially to those specific inquiries. When posters asked specifically about damages I provided full responses to those inquiries. I have not tried to hide anything.

And how have any of my posts trivialized the issues at OBBP? I've always said we have catastrophic damage to our physical plant but the response to it has been terrific and as good as any building in a similar situation (and there are many) and better than the most all of the other buildings. That should give buyers tremendous confidence.

As for the issue of the garage, you are confusing the garages with the large loading docks. There was extensive flooding in the loading docks after the doors blew in, but there was no flooding in the garages. This is a perfect example of how a misunderstanding results in the dissemination of incorrect information. Indeed, despite the management company's best efforts to communicate information to the residents, there are still residents who do not fully understand and are confused by the situation and have misimpressions of the state of the bulding. This is not unexpected considering there are more than 330 occurpied units.

As for the garage specifically, this is what I said "Regarding the garage, I spoke to the garage manager after Sandy and he told me that the garage did not sustain any damage and all cars were moved up to the entrance level to the second level so no cars were damaged." I stand by this statement. Neither the Quick Park garage nor the privately owned garage sustained any flooding and NO cars were damaged in either garage. The Quick Park garage has a ramp and trench drains at the entrace. The private garage is similarly elevanted and all cars are parked on the second floor. Whose car was damaged and where was it parked?

buybye, once again you miscontrue what I wrote. I did not walk my dog to witness the flood blow in the loading dock doors (NOT the garage doors). I walked him well BEFORE the surge and indeed I did not witness any part of it as I was back in my unit well before it occurred. My statement makes no comment on the consturction quality of OBBP, which is excellent. The flood whould have blown in any such doors and indeed the doors were commercial quality Raynor doors.

I'm done arguing with you. Every "fact" you brought to this discussion has been disproven. You don't know anything about OBBP and your opinions are misguided at best and malicious at worst. You're just a message board troll who posts to elicit a response for your own twisted entertainment. There are reall issues to be discussed and real interests involved. OBBP is not your plaything and a source of entertainment for you. I going to adhere to the maxim "don't argue with a fool lest you be confused for one."

crescent, sales in the building may be impacted negatively in the short-run, but fortunatly we are in the slow season between Nov. and Feb./March. People's memories are short and by the time the spring RE season is here I think any impact will be neglible as memories fade and Pier 5 will be open which will be a draw to buyers. In addition, OBBP is more than 85% sold so units are becoming scarce. If buyers wait too long the unit they want may well be gone and other options in the building have become limited and will become more limited as sales continue.

yikes reveled his / her bias on the Fairway thread:

yikes November 13, 2012 at 4:41 pm #
Vindication for those who said that this park is NO PLACE to build housing. Too bad Senator Squadron sold us all out. They are proceeding to build inside the park in DUMBO at John Street and and at Pier 1, too. They will “forget” about building Pier 6 until a new mayor and time passes but that creep gave away Pier 6 for housing, too.

At leat now it makes sense why he / she posts on this thread. And I also understand the remarks about "7-figure apartments"

yikes? not my post--and certainly not my bias--hadnt really considered any of this

as some one who has owned many NYC properties, and has been lucky enough to own none since 8/07, I am always assessing value and timing for additional purchases. I have a disticnct bias to be prudent.

to buy at 1bbp, especially now, in light of serious costly issues presently evolving there, and flood exposure potential that will always exist if not worsen--would be imprudent--that would be a bias of mine as re this property. and then there's the fact that it seems like it would be a hassle to live in an established flood zone

i also have a bias against people who think they know better than our first responders and government, and put others at risk, by refusing to evacuate when directed to do so. people who think that, because there was no consequence for putting others at risk this time, all is ok with their actions. those people should sell their properties and live on high ground.

and maybe they will. att bargain-hunters!

People's memories are short and by the time the spring RE season is here I think any impact will be neglible as memories fade
- Make it your wish for X'mas

Pier 5 will be open which will be a draw to buyers
- In terms of Pier 5 construction, all electrical equipment was damaged by salt water. (email from Regina Myer, President of the Brooklyn Bridge Park Corporation)

If buyers wait too long the unit they want may well be gone
- Is there more typical broker babble than this? Hello, your building is a tie w/ Belltel for the longest sale in Brooklyn, if not all NYC!

For similar condos in Brooklyn or on the waterfront that started sales at the same time or way later than OBBP:
1 Hanson sold out; 1 active listing in Toren; 4 for sale at Edge (including 2 towers north & south and average price around $1000/sf!); northside piers 1 & 2, sold out; 5 listings at the view in LIC.
In recently opened condos, a few new developments in Brooklyn Heights north are selling at a brisk pace; in Carroll Gardens, Sackett-Union was 40% in contract BEFORE officially on sale, now only 11 units left one month after it went on the market!

It cracked me up when you said sluggish sales is your sponsor's problem. It means, you bought into a questionable building in a risky location that doesn't appeal to a large pool of buyers. Not matter how many silly ads the sponsor puts on NY Times real estate section, Brownstoner, Curbed. In addtion to maintaining a sales tean for years, everytime he is hosting wannabe star chefs or open house parties, he's buring YOUR money.

Also out of the top of my head: On Prospect Park by Richard Meier, sold out; Be@Schermerhorn below Fulton Mall, sold out; Oro, no more than 10 listings left; Forte, sold out; practically all the stalled projects in Billyburg/Greenpoint, sold out; a few condos on upper Boerum Hill, sold out.
Actually, can you think of any condo development that started sales around 2008 still have a significant number of listings, beside Belltel & OBBP?
Belltel has a lack of window issue, in a subpar location even by Downtown Brooklyn standard. OBBP, wrong side of BQE, zone A, land lease, far from subway/restaurants/services, carrying costs due to skyrocket. No wonders these are the left over.

yikes, thanks for clarifying. I didn't expect anybody to hijack your SE login but I guess somebody must have done precisely that, then, on the Fairway thread.

In regard to compliance with government orders, one can certainly argue for a normative according to which the individual should follow government orders at all times no matter what. I disagree with that position. If I have information that the governement does not or cannot use in its decision making process (such as building-specific information) and based on that information I come to a different conclusion than the government, I will, at least in some situations, trust my own judgement rather than the government's.

You said earlier: "one should evacuate when ordered---take a hotel for a week or two--or li9ve elsewhwere"
I suppose you agree with the following, too, then:
"one should wait at a pedestrian traffic light when it is red---look at the road without cars for a minute or two--or move to a city without traffic lights"?

Guys, be gentle on Gator. The dude just had his condo flooded and surely will be facing higher assessments, insurance costs, decreased resale values in addition to whatever inconvenience in daily living he has to deal with now. Don't kick a guy while he's dowe. I'm just grateful my flood zone C condo in Dumbo was untouched.

The gator claimed '50% increase' in condo value is dwindling as we write

big stretch to your analogy, polison, and i draw many lines in the sand re what parts of my life gov't has say in----but in cases of community emergency, i cooperate with the good of all in mind

curious who 'jacked me--gave my logon to a friend or two--it's exponentially spread i'm sure

my dicky personna here is pretty clearly me--and not my kind of dicky in the fairway post you pasted

I am just a block inside zone C myself.

Here's a fun map to play with.
I'm good 'til a 13 meter rise.
Looks like Red Hook will take the real hits before most.
http://geology.com/sea-level-rise/new-york.shtml

All right, yikes, so we agree then that compliance with governement orders can and should depend on the situation and individual judgement. I guess we have to agree to disagree on evacuation orders. As explained earlier, not evacuating, may well mean that the "good of all" is served better; precisely in the situation where one ends up not needing the help of rescue workers and does not consume scarce resources during a time of disaster(e.g., shelter space, gasoline, transportation, etc.). If the fact that those having stayed at OBBP did not need resucue workers was due to luck or to be expected in light of the available information is, I'm afraid, another point where we have to agree to disagree.

buybye, thanks for proving that all you want to do is disparage OBBP. And as usual your post is short on facts and context.

Regarding Pier 5, yes the electrical equipment was damaged, but it will not stop Pier 5 from opening well before Spring. It's largely a passive pier with 3 athletic fields, picnic peninsula, children's playground. Worst case scenario they will do for Pier 5 what they have done for the rest of BBP park and close the Pier as dusk (because there is currently no lighting which is the electrical equipment in question at Pier 5). But it's months away and will be fixed by then.

Regarding sales at OBBP, your comparison to the other buildings is apples and oranges with the exception of Northside Piers and the Edge (N.B. where did you get an average price around $1000/sq. ft.? Streeteasy shows $792 for the North tower and $906 for the South tower; OBBP holds it own at $766). The other buildings have half as many or fewer units as OBBP (which has 449 units) and a very different mix of units. Toren has 240 units (42 of which were moderate income lottery units) so 198 market rate units. It's much easier to sell 198 units in current RE conditions than 449 because there are simply fewer purchasers in the market today (reduced by unemployment, inability to obtain financing, etc.). The unit mix is also very different. Whereas most of Toren's units are between $550,000 and $850,000, with only a few units in the $1 million and up range. In contrast, a significant portion of OBBP's units are in the $1-3 million range. Similarly, Oro has 303-units with an unit mix mostly between $425,000 and $850,000, with a hand full of $1 million sales. Oro is in excess of 90% sold which isn't much different than than OBBP's 85%.

Be@Shcermerhorn and Forte are even worse comparisons. Be@ only sold out after going bankrupt. It has 246 units in a range from $360,00 to $800,000, but many units were between $300-450,000. Forte also went bankrupt and firesaled its 108 units at an average price of only $513,000. Neither is much of a comparison to OBBP.

On Prospect Park has a mere 96 units (and is the subject of a lawsuit by the Board against the sponsor: http://observer.com/2012/09/richard-meiers-on-prospect-park/). And despite having only 25% of the units at OBBP it is 95% sold despite having been on the market just as long as OBBP. So how exactly has On Prospect performed so much better than OBBP?

The Edge and Northside Piers are reasonable comparisons, but their success doesn't mean that OBBP hasn't also been successful. Indeed, your assertion that OBBP has not sold well is disproven by the fact that OBBP sold the second most units in 2010 not just in Brooklyn but IN THE ENTIRE CITY. The same was true in 2011 (but I don't recall whether it was second or third place). OBBP's biggest hindrance has been simply the size of the building: the number of units available as compared to a greatly reduced buyer pool.

In any event, I said it before and I'll say it again: the sales pace is an issue for the sponsor not the owner. This is demonstrated by the 50% appreciation in my unit notwithstanding the sales pace of the building. Indeed, each time the building has met certain sales thresholds the sponsor has been able to increase prices. Resales likewise have done very well. I bought at the depths of the Great Recession and it turned out very well for me because the building succeeded and ultimately did appeal to a large pool of buyers thus the 365+ units sold (which is the equivalent of selling more than 3 Fortes or On Prospect Parks!) And buttondown, it's not a claimed increase. The information is right here on Streeteasy. Go look at recently closed resales. Even if my 50% appreciation "dwindles" by 10-15% I'm still sitting pretty on a 35-40% increase in only 3 years.

And you are again flat wrong in stating that "everytime [the sponsor] is hosting wannabe star chefs or open house parties, he's burning YOUR money." Hosting the Top Chef and Design Stars didn't cost residents a penny. The sponsor made money (they paid him a fee for the use of the sponsor's units) and it brought exposure for the building. Any costs were paid by the sponsor NOT the building.

Put down the crack pipe, go take your meds, and get over your hate of OBBP.

Again, I don't hate you or OBBP. I have compassion for your out-of-this-worldly insanity. Don't you see the pity people feel for you? If you were any confident about your purchase, would you be attacking anyone who speaks up some reality? We knew you are an attorny (years before you revealed it above) and can't help having fun figuring how much you could've billed your clients instead of spending hours and days on the tread, typing thousands of words in each post. Take a look back and give us a ballpark number. :)
Stop being insecure and immature. Thank you for the shared feeling here, pencap75.

>I don't hate you or OBBP
>Stop being insecure and immature

buybye, you're such a joke. Insecure and immature? Check a mirror (your posts expose you here, i.e, calling me an idiot, insane, etc.). You are continually exposed for posts that are factually incorrect and misleading. Rather than respond you choose emotional appeals and personal attacks. Get lost. If you were an owner in a building that was being maligned you would defend it. I'm no different. Regardless it doesn't take me long at all to write my posts and I consider it a form of recreation. I know why I spend time here. Why do you?

The pity people feel for me? A few anonymous posters who are generally the same negative trolls that post on most threads on SE. Yeah that's real pity. Please I couldn't care less what they say. I'm not looking for friends, support, pity or anything else on this board.

My only goal is too provide a counterpoint to all those that want to deride OBBP unfairly. OBBP isn't your cup of tea, you think it has negatives, etc. That's all fine and indeed I recognize them and that OBBP - just like virtually every building - isn't right for everyone. I politely provide a counterpoint. But if you attack OBBP with erroneous or no factual support, then yeah I'm going to expose that.

You may construe my posts as "attacking anyone who speaks up some reality" but my posts speak for themselves. I take on the trolls on SE and people who disparage OBBP with misinformation, uninformed opinion and plain old bullshit. There are unfortunately a lot of people who take perverse pleasure in tearing things down. And just as unfortunately there are many people who will assume that what they wrote is accurate. So I will respond. On the other hand, I have plenty of productive with both people who support my positions and who disagree with them but do so in a non-combative productive manner. And why are the other posters who agree with you espousing a dose of reality whereas my posts and those posters consistent with my posts aren't? You are some judge of reality. I guess you are judge and jury.

Finally, neither you nor anyone else should worry about me and my purchase. Couldn't be more secure in it. Why wouldn't I as I'm sitting on 50% appreciation? What are you sitting on?

The only facts in this thread are button_down's first post which was a copy of email from the building management, my info about insurance, and Gator's info about the building.

Everything else is just fear mongering with unsubstantiated claims. People seem to think 13 ft floods will be happening every year. If that's the case, we will all have a lot of problems living in NYC.

You know what's more likely to happen than abandoning all water front regions? Take a look.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57547560/nyc-after-sandy-can-city-protect-its-shores/

yes, polisson, we differ:

where our first responders and government, during a time of serious community emergency, issue an evacuation directive, specifically requesting residents leave so they aren't at risk of serious danger, and most importantly, so they dont put emergency personnel and others at unnecessary risk of danger, in case worst-case scenario evolves, I do as I am told.

You do not. You decide for yourself. And in this case you defied the evacuation order, assuming your knowledge and judgement was superior to that of our first-responders, and government; and chose to put others at risk. You got away with it this time.

essentially, i err on the side of caution when my decision to disobey government may endanger others. you dont. that's fine, until you hurt someone.

And yes, there are circumstances where i do not do as government tells me. But certainly not where I have been told that I would be putting lives of others at risk. You have no problem ewith this, apparently.

we differ.

yikes, I don't think we differ in our approach to "putting others at risk". We differ in evaluating risk.

Crossing the street on a "don't walk" signal puts others at risk (as well as yourself). But it comes down to how we estimate that risk. Our main difference is how we assess the risk that staying at a building like OBBP during a category 1 hurricane would put others (first responders) in danger. You seem to think it's high but I disagree.

The alternative to evacuating is also not risk free and potentially more harmful to others. What if you have a car accident during evacuation traffic? Not only would first responders need to help you and not be available elsewhere but it could also lead to traffic problems and prevent others (maybe those from truly high-risk areas) from evacuating.

So, it really comes down how we evaluate the available information and in particular those facts that the government doesn't use in its decision process but that are available to the individual.

Gator - Thanks for the 20th of your "last" response. Plz go on.

You are doing a great job to "let this thread die". Plz continue popping it up to the top of the discussions from this weekend to Thanksgiving to X'mas. It's been sluggish in the forum, no fun.

"And in this case you defied the evacuation order, assuming your knowledge and judgement was superior to that of our first-responders, and government; and chose to put others at risk."

This assertion only holds if the first responders and government (!) are putting the apartment dweller's best interest first. I wouldn't be too sure of that.

It's time for another RAL story:
When RAL was building Capella in Mountain Village, Telluride; he cut so many corners that the contractor
kept a log-book with notes on the cut-corners. He said: "That place is a lawsuit waiting to happen".
Among other things he was afraid that because the t.v.s in the rooms weren't hung on the proper wall tracks, they would fall on the head of a hotel guest.
Or maybe just a maid would get knocked on the noggin.

I know because that contractor (not the New York mafioso) sent me some pages from his log-book.

Capella ended up being a bust, anyway.
RAL threw a big party there to celebrate the "Opening" when only 27 of the 100 rooms was complete.
There were also a few condos built upstairs but none were ever purchased.
Ral did tell the restaurant's chef to put $13 hot dogs on the menu. The hot dogs came with three different kinds of mustard.
Mountain Village is referred to as "The Morgue" around Telluride and it's a shame that the residents were fooled into believing that RAL would save their town which was already in dire financial straits previous to the construction of Capella.

buybye, if you keep posting BS, I'm going to respond to it. This thread will die - as it should - when that stops happening.

You can say whatever for your apt's appreciation, I can say its market value ZERO at this moment, as you can't sell due to the status of building. It's also ZERO for rent, b/c if you lived in a rental building like this, you would get a rent deduction. But you are continuing to pay common charges to suffer in a pee smell filled apt, w. limited heat, partial elevator service.
What I'm sitting on? In a 2000+ sf 3bd 3bth duplex in a historical district, that didn't even loose cable TV during the hurricane.

buybye sitting pretty nice!

A piece of advice: In distress and desparaty, you gave out directly or indirectly your profession, your apt's line and floor, your wife's workplace and other information so now people know who you are, where you live, what you do. Totally reckless for any netizen, no to speak for an attorney.

Doubt you could ever join my rank as a juge... :)

disparity would be the spelling-the meaning seems disconnected with whatever you are trying to say

maybe you meant desperation? that would make sense.

Gator thank you for being the voice of reason through these posts. The reason why I am writing is because I feel like people are attacking you for no good reason because of your "agenda" and I am disgusted by the negative comments here.

First, I am an owner of OBBP. We bought last year and were lucky to get one of the last remaining multiple bedroom apartments for under one million dollars. We loved living here before the hurricane, and still love living here despite the major inconvenience of being without water and heat for 2 weeks. We were able to stay in our home since we had electricity and, contrary to other posters' opinions, it was perfectly habitable. Of course it was very annoying but worth dealing with rather than leaving and staying at a shelter. Based on my own observations it seems that many other residents stayed in the building. I am very grateful for and impressed with the hardworking staff and management who made every effort to help through this trying time. In fact, many residents expressed an interest in thanking the staff with gifts, and the building has already given them a bonus for their hard work. I'm sure all the residents will express their appreciation when we distribute tips for the holidays. Additionally, a resident who owns a chain of coffee shops is setting up a coffee service this weekend as a "thank you" to the staff.

I have concerns about the cost of the repairs being spread to the homeowners through maintenance. I have concerns about how often these hurricanes will occur. However, I am comforted by the fact that we love our home, and the value has increased $200,000 since we bought just over a year ago according to Streeteasy. I don't know how accurate this estimation is but I am certain that despite the effects and costs of the hurricane this was the right decision for us and hopefully a lucrative investment.

I understand the initial poster trying to get information on the building as a potential buyer, and people like Gator that have an interest in the building or information to give, but to the rest of the posters that are clearly so against OBBP, what are you doing here? I don't know why someone would hate the building or park enough to write on a blog about it, but even if you can't stand the building or the type of people you believe live here, what do you gain by making nasty comments about it? I mean, I would not want to live in be@Schermerhorn or many other buildings in Brooklyn but I don't hate them and would certainly not comment on a blog about it! I’m sick of reading posts about how long it took to sell (which has no effect on me), my inhabitable living conditions, my bad moral character for threatening the lives of NYPD and FDNY, and my delusional opinion that my property value won’t seriously be affected.

It's pretty simple. If you hate the building, don't move in. If you think because you are a taxpayer you are paying for me to live here or for the building to make repairs, I would love that but it's simply not true. If my property value takes a hit, it's not your problem so why do you care? I just don't get it.

I feel terrible for actual victims of the hurricane that lost their lives, suffered damage to their home, or lost a lot of money. I am grateful that we came out of the hurricane and the only thing we have to worry about is having to pay more maintenance or not making as much money as we expected to on the apartment. I respect others' decisions to not buy in the building right now. I have no idea what I'd do in that situation. I can say that even knowing that we'd have to deal with these inconvenience, we'd still decide to live here because we love it. And no I don't have a scheme to try to hide our problems or prevent a drop in value. This is actually my opinion whether you agree or not.

Wow, according to buybye DUMBO, FiDi, Hoboken, Red Hook etc are worth zero!

Here's a likely scenario for how Brooklyn Bridge Park development will play out:

- Pier 5 opens in 2013
- Increased foot traffic bring more stores to OBBP
- Starwood/Toll Brothers Condos and Hotel open in 2014
- RFPs for the pier 6 issued in 2014
- The velodrome is completed sometime in the next few years

Also, NJ/NY builds a 1000+ yr storm surge barrier because we are, after all, a major financial capitol of the world. And guess what, Brooklyn Heights will be inside the barrier. Talk to you guys in 1,000 yrs.

Values will dip because of Sandy, but the long-term is still pretty bright.

Building a storm surge barrier is expensive (well worth the cost) and will take time.

Just let this thread run out, gator and nyc_observer.
At least gator doesn't post comments on the Forte discussion dissing their neighborhood.

Truth, no I didn't but you dissed OBBP's neighborhood on that thread. Why is that? You just can't help but malign OBBP at every opportunity.

I looked at Forte and know the building and its neighborhood well. No comparison between Forte and OBBP. OBBP is better in every respect except for proximity to subways and to some extent stores/restaurants. This is demonstrated by the fact that Forte was a bankrupt building. And in my view the addition of the Barclays Center is a negative for the immediate area, which is certainly in transition, in terms of congestion, traffic, etc., and this is before all the residential units come online.

O.K., gator, that is your opinion about your neighborhood and this is my opinion about it the other Brooklyn neighborhood.

Your insisting that I "malign OBBP at every opportunity" isn't true, you know I have stayed off the OBBP threads for some time and allowed you to argue it out with other comment posters.
The proof is on the threads.

My comments are relative to RAL's connection and not to malign the building.

However, you have just bumped this discussion back up to the top of the streeteasy front page.

>Doubt you could ever join my rank as a juge... :)

What does that mean?
Hey Brooks2, you often mistype, can you decipher?
caonima, you speak broken English, can you interpret?

buybye is Brooks, huntersburg?!
Brooks is very busy since I outed him as a fraud with his story of being a retired Air Force fighter
pilot. (Decorated, yet. Medals and all.)

gator now doesn't like the Barclays Arena.
It's bringing "traffic" to the area, which is not his neighborhood.

The neighborhood residents and store/restaurant/business owners there like Barclays because they and their customers can walk to and from a world-class concert arena featuring world-class performers.
Most attendees not from the neighborhood take the subway to Barclays.
Every concert booked into Barclays brings an additional customer base via the concert crews.
They like to eat at the nice restaurants and frequent the shops.
As if that's a bad thing.

Nobody is thinking:
"Gee, I wish I could walk over to OBBP from here".
There is no there, there.

Truth, my post was unclear. I was only suggesting that the Barclays Center is a negative for the immediate RESIDENTIAL area. I really like the Barclay Center and think its a great addition to Brooklyn. I look forward to seeing concerts and attending other events there and enjoying the stores/restaurants there. But in terms of the residential buildings close to the arena I think it is a negative. Too much congestion and activity. It's almost like living next to Madison Square Garden. It's not the Brooklyn Heights and Cobble Hill neighborhoods that I enjoy so much.

And while I wouldn't expect that there are people who are thinking "Gee, I wish I could walk over to OBBP from here" (why would they want to go see a residential building), there are PLENTY of people who are thinking "Gee, I wish I could walk over to Brooklyn Bridge Park from here." Indeed, it is walkable (or a short subway ride away) and MANY people do just that. You've heard how much of draw BBP has been, right?

Oh, gator, get real.
Nobody and I mean NOBODY on Tour staff has thought of walking over to BBPark from the Barclays Arena.
Not since it has opened and it will not change in the warm weather.
They don't go on Tour with their kids and aren't interested in the playground.

They would rather check out the view from Williamsburg or Dumbo in nice weather, if they want to go to a place not nearby/ subway ride/walkable.

I'm talking about 75-150 Tour staff-members, depending on the Tour.
The Stones just put up tickets for their Barclays show, so make that crew 200+.

I suppose you will say that you have contact with the "PLENTY of people" who are wishing to go to OBBP from Barclays' area.
As if on any given night, their numbers would exceed the Tour crews from the Barclays concerts.

Sorry to break it to you but we enjoy the neighborhood area around Barclays and visiting the people we know who live there.

Your wishes are not my command.
They aren't the command of "PLENTY" of people.

I cite a specific group influx into the Barclays area, weekly and some daily depending on the concert dates there.
gator goes wide with an unknown quantity of "PLENTY of people" as if he has a tracking device on those people.

lyrics?

columbiacounty, coming out of a Hurricane and a Noreaster, the cold is starting to settle in, the days are getting shorter ... you must be enjoying yourself.

limo?

liver?

Truth, you were talking about neighborhood residents and attendees at concerts and events at Barclays who far outnumber the 200+ crew members you also referenced. Why are you now focusing solely on the crew? Who cares were 200+ crew from Barclays events go?

Anyway, my point was clearly that many neighborhood residents and attendees at Barclay events frequent BBP, which is far more than a "playground." BBP already averages 90,000 visitors on weekends and more than 15,000 on weekdays. No tracking device necessary as these are published numbers. Where do you think all these people come from?

No, gator.
I was writing about Barclays Arena and how the concert crews go out in the neighborhood during their off-hours on show-day and at night after the concert. They walk around the neighborhood and go to the shops and restaurants there. They visit friends who live in the neighborhood, like the guy who lives at Forte.

"Who cares where they go"?
Well, THEY care that there is a good neighborhood there with restaurants and shopping they can go to.
The owners of those restaurants and shops care that they have those additional customers.
I care because I go with them when they are in town.
The residents in that neighborhood that I know all like living there and walking to and from Barclays.
There are places to go there.
None that I have spoken to go to BBP. They would rather go to the waterfront in DUMBO or Williamsburg and they do.

But we don't go to BBP. Not interested, there is nothing there for us.

The fact that BBP has visitors and they come from the Brooklyn neighborhoods or wherever, is YOUR point.
It doesn't have anything to do with MY point. So don't try to put words into my cybermouth.

Does anyone have any updated information on the flood water damage at OBBP? Any more information on estimates of the quantification of the damage to the building and how this will be paid for, both short and long term?

Also, any updates on discussion to mitigate the future risk of being in Flood Zone A on the river and the consequential costs to OBBP?

Any thoughts on consequences to the buildings' insurance premiums?

"I must say, it's been quite a treat listening to gator try to talk his way around the bad news like everyone else here is gullible as hell."

BINGO

---

"Gator thank you for being the voice of reason through these posts."

Gator, the voice of "reason"? Is this a joke?

You get you're talking about the guy who started attacking people personally when they disagreed with him (look, he just did it AGAIN), and is on record on this thread for the worst kind of slant.

"The reason why I am writing is because I feel like people are attacking you for no good reason because of your "agenda" and I am disgusted by the negative comments here."

I am disgusted by people with obvious slant. At least you are admitting why you are slanted... but you are slanted nontheless.

---

"It's now a full 85% sold (and I think a shade more actually). How many years it took to sell is an issue for the sponsor, not purchasers in the building."

Is this a joke? Suddenly the ability of a building to sell it's apartments has no bearing on prices expected in the building?

Hillarious.

Slant away, Gator.

---

"I've been proven RIGHT as evidenced by the 50% appreciation of my unit in just 2.5 years based on recent closings. "

What, are you SteveF now? Remember when he tried lying about that, too?

---

"buybye, you're such a joke. Insecure and immature?"

There goes Gator AGAIN. Gator, do you have any response to people presenting an argument other than attacking them? This is what people who don't have good arguments on their side do...

swe, wow way to come back and resuscitate a thread for absolutely no reason. You've written nothing worth responding to. Other people may respond to your nonsense, but I won't be drawn into it. The facts are there for everyone to see (and mostly from independent sources). Indeed, all sorts of facts in this thread and you respond to none of them and present none of your own. There goes SWE again. Do you have any response to people other than unsupported opinion and nonsense (and yes that is a rhetorical question).

You just responded to swe, gator.
You were drawn into it.

gator, are you an "independent source"?

How come everyone else giving data is either "not giving facts" or making "untrue" statements?

Gator's been pretty close to the repair work, so he would know. Sure, those of us that live at OBBP could be lying, but that doesn't serve much purpose as I am sure future buyer's lawyers will do thorough due diligence.

What is everyone else basing their information on? Several others are probably Heights residents that oppose the condos in BBP and are trying to spread false information to deter sales.

Nope, I'm basing my comments on the fact that RAL is a shit developer and he cuts corners.
The Attorney General has those facts.

nyc_observer cast aspersions in his/her comment on the Forte discussion about :
"Take a walk around the hood at night".
That led to gator coming onto that discussion and turning the beat around.
Then he tried to beat it back on this discussion by turning my comments around.

Why,oh why?

Truth, you are confusing your threads. I never posted on the Forte thread.

Yet, there you were casting aspersions at OBBP on that thread again. All because nyc_observer made a comment about that people my not feel comfortable walking around Forte's neighborhood at night? You just take any change to disparage OBBP, don't you? As for nyc_observer casting aspersions, I guess negative comments against OBBP are allowed, but negative comments about Forte and Downtown Brooklyn are not. You attacked him/her and good just for stating an opinion about the neighborhood at night. Nice double standard.

In reading that thread I notice that you stated that your apt. is in Brooklyn. You should disclose the building so your biases (the ones we don't already know about) can be known.

crescent, other than button-down, who else posted data/facts on this thread?

purple_brooklyn, I missed your post before. Thanks for the well-reasoned and insightful post.

gator: I asked if observer walked around his neighborhood at night.
There is nothing to walk to there.
Then I asked about how residents of OBBP are using the staff locker room bathroom/showers as far as scheduling.

Then I wrote that when I have to pee, I want to do my business and wash my hands and flush the toilet without gathering water collected in the bath tub.

I didn't say which comments "are allowed" . That's your hang-up.

No "attack", no "double-standard".

As for my building, it never lost power.
It never lacked water.
We shower, use the toilet and wash our hands in our own bathroom.
No water is collected in our bath tub.
We have company over for Thanksgiving weekend.
They can use the bathroom without hauling water from the bath tub.
They can take a shower without going out of the apt.

Is The Office Of The Attorney General biased?
Is their record on RAL biased?

purple_brooklyn:
I don't hate the building, I hate the developer.
I don't hate the people living in OBBP, I hate RAL.
Even without my hatred of RAL the facts about him as a developer would still be true.

"You just responded to swe, gator. You were drawn into it."

ROTFL.

"gator, are you an "independent source"?
How come everyone else giving data is either "not giving facts" or making "untrue" statements?"

He is just a total hypocrite.

No one is allowed to say anything that he doesn't agree with, or they're slanted. He is the worst kind of slant.

Whatever.
gator, you are para-noy-oy-d.

I live in a beautiful rental building in Bay Ridge.
It was newly renovated by my landlord, who is a really good guy.

No bias.

You should have left it at my original comment on this thread, saying that I'm glad that you are O.K.
I meant it then and I mean it now.
There was no mention of OBBP, just a good intention to you from me.
But, nooooo. You had to go getting all twisty on me with your wasted wish.

I'll be going out of the country after the upcoming Stones concerts.
Will I be thinking of you and hoping for an opportunity to post a comment about OBBP while I'm in Maui?
No.
Will I be thinking of you and hoping for an opportunity to post a comment about OBBP while I'm in Bora Bora?
No.
Will I be thinking of you and hoping for an opportunity to post a comment about OBBP while I'm in Australia?
No.

However, you will still have swe here to keep you busy, if you allow him to get under your gator skin.

"Here's a fun map to play with.
I'm good 'til a 13 meter rise.
Looks like Red Hook will take the real hits before most.
http://geology.com/sea-level-rise/new-york.shtml"

***

Cool! My building is safe for a sea level rise of 196 feet!

Stupid map - set it to 20M rise in sea level and there's still areas of Battery Park, not to mention Boro of Manhattan Community College, that are above water.

Fun, but crazy.

It won't matter if your apartment is on the top of a hill if you can't buy food or go to the doctor or get to your job.

Rising sea levels and flooding means the trucks won't be able to get into town with the gas, and that we won't be able to use the subways -- as we just saw! Not speculation, but the reality we just lived.

Whether an individual's apartment is on high ground or not is sort of meaningless, if the city becomes unlivable.

Not if you have a rooftop garden.

That's a great map, but it looks to me like areas most affected by rising sea levels are the South Shore of Long Island, including Bklyn/Qns, and a swath of New Jersey. I wonder if mudslides would ever be an issue. I have always wondered about those apartment houses in Hudson Heights that have air underneath their basements. I don't understand the engineering, but I suppose the entire buildings are supported by metal braces anchored in the ground below the hillside. I wonder if some buildings on Cabrini could find their grounds falling away from under them. Transportation would be a big problem, since most of the city is on islands.

Lowery, there is SOLID BEDROCK under those apartment buildings in Hudson Heights.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/13/nyregion/13retain.html?pagewanted=all

Wall Collapses Onto a Busy Manhattan Highway
By ROBERT D. McFADDEN

Published: May 13, 2005

A 75-foot-high stone retaining wall built in 1908 collapsed in a roaring avalanche onto the Henry Hudson Parkway in Upper Manhattan yesterday afternoon. No one was believed killed or hurt, but parked cars were buried and traffic in the region was thrown into bedlam for the evening rush.

The retaining wall, an ominously vertical landmark to drivers passing under its bulk just north of the George Washington Bridge at 183rd Street in Washington Heights, shuddered and rumbled and fell in two stages that terrified nearby residents and drivers who saw landslides falling on the road ahead.

The WALL. Not the bedrock.

hmm, I wonder what the wall is holding up.

Yes, Matt, I can see that there is solid bedrock below those supports. I always marvel at their construction, as they seem to be floating on air. Over on the other side of Hudson Heights, facing the Hudson River, I wonder about mudslides.

Dirt and rocks.

The bedrock is under the Castle Village buildings. It slopes down from there to the level of where RSD runs into the Parkway. The wall was built at the edge of RSD and the Parkway, about 70' high, and the wedge-shaped void was filled up. On top, lawn ran from the buildings to the edge of the wall. There was insufficient drainage from behind the wall, so since 1905 groundwater had built up behind the wall, warped it, and eventually caused the collapse.

At the south end of the Castle Village property, the wall makes a 90-degree turn and runs east to near Cabrini Blvd. 1380 Riverside's first seven stories rise up just a few feet from it, so that building was evacuated when the section fell, for fear the whole thing might come down.

pretty dangerous up there.

If the natural slope had been left alone when Dr. Paterno built the house that preceded Castle Village, there'd have been no problem.

In other cases where a developer's lot was on sloping exposed bedrock, the steel columns lowery mentioned were anchored into the rock, forming a street-level platform for the building to sit upon. Those were simpler/cheaper to engineer than multi-story retaining walls and fill.

NWT, are the steel columns safe? It's kind of counterintuitive to someone like me who knows nothing about engineering. I get the feeling looking at those things that they're like some of the lego buildings I made deliberately precarious as a kid to see how much I could load up before it would all come tumbling down. But that's because of appearances. I'm sure they must be more secure and stable th.an any beach houses, for instance. And given what you say about the Cabrini wall that collapsed, could something like that happen in the landfills around the edges of Lower Manhattan? I still think Hudson Heights is a person's safest bet against flood damage, but that map with the lik surprised me a little, because I had read somewhere that the highest spot in NYC is in Crotona Park.

They're probably over-engineered, as most such things are, but would still need maintenance just like a bridge does: rust removal, repainting, etc. Just driving by, a lot of them look as if they hadn't been touched in decades.

Landfill doesn't have the height to really slump. If you pulled out the wall at the edge of the river, the unsupported fill would slide in a bit, and the river would erode the edge further back. Nothing like a real landslide.

200' doesn't get you more protection from flooding than 100'. Both are equally vulnerable to flooding from broken water mains, which we see all the time. But the odds of that aren't enough to justify all the preventive measures that'll now be taken at low elevations for new construction.

The highest point in the city is Todt Hill on Staten Island, at 410'.

surprise, inwood, wash. height are so low