We are planning to renovate the kitchen in our Manhattan one bedroom co-op. We have had an estimate from a company that does a lot of renovation work in the building - a designer and contractor team that work together. We used them them before in our previous apartment for some minor renovation work and we were very happy with the results. The kitchen is teeny. 88" x 60". The work will involve... [more]
We are planning to renovate the kitchen in our Manhattan one bedroom co-op. We have had an estimate from a company that does a lot of renovation work in the building - a designer and contractor team that work together. We used them them before in our previous apartment for some minor renovation work and we were very happy with the results. The kitchen is teeny. 88" x 60". The work will involve ripping out existing kitchen and changing the configuration. Also adding a sheet rock wall with an arched entryway. The current kitchen is Pullman-style. We are planning to incorporate part of the foyer into the kitchen, hence the erection of the wall. The estimate we have had for this work comes in at:
$21,500 for labor
$ 4,000 for raw materials
$14, 800 for custom cabinets, appliance, tiles, flooring, lighting etc.
$ 3,000 for electrical (inc. new circuit breaker)
$ 3,500 for plumbing (move sink, dishwasher)
Does this seem reasonable? Just under under $50,000 seems a lot for such a tiny space but we have nothing to compare it with. We have had an architect look at the the project and he gave a verbal estimate of anything from $50,000 up to $100,000, depending on finishes and appliances etc. We were hoping to get it done for under $30,000.
Any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks!
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Response by pistachio
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 16
Member since: Feb 2010
From what I gathered talking to a GC today, the cost to renovate a kichen is cheaper when it's a part of a larger renovation, compared to when it's just the kitchen.
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Response by Primer05
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009
Kas61,
The 21,500 for labor seems high and the 14,800 seems very low. What kind of appliances are you getting?
I run into this a lot, everyone is one a budget. I would look into going with cabinets that are not custom and then it might be doing for 30K
I just wrote this blog talking about this exact thing
I'm just finishing renovating an equally tiny kitchen, almost the same scope of work, and agree that the labor seems a little high, while the 14.8k seems low (my Home Depot cabinets alone were 13k, and appliances (not HD) were 8k (counter-depth refrigerators are expensive!).
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Response by KAS61
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 126
Member since: Mar 2012
Well, based on these responses, I'm thinking we should be looking to reduce the labor costs and not to cut back in the cost of the cabinetry etc.
We had a quote from an architect of a $16,000 flat fee for the design of the space. This seems astronomical given the scope of what needs to be done. This feels like an absolute minefield. Does anyone have any advise as to how we should best approach it and avoid getting ripped off?
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Response by Primer05
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009
My clients usually pay 15-20k for an architect for a complete gut renovation so for a kitchen that seems very high. If you need design and filing then it should be around 10k I would think.
If you want some recommendations you can call me at 646-436-3942 or email me at primerenovations@mac.com
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Response by muttdogz
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 0
Member since: Oct 2012
I gut renovated my 9x9' kitchen last year. I did all the planning myself, purchased all the materials myself and my super did all of the work (demo, plumbing, electrical, install of new flooring, sink, dishwasher, cabinets, countertops, painting, lighting etc). The total, including very high end appliances was about a quarter of what you have been quoted. It was a bit more work for me, and took a bit longer than bringing in an outside contractor...but the savings was well worth it.
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Response by KAS61
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 126
Member since: Mar 2012
Primer05: Thanks very much for the offer! We are carefully considering our options before moving forward with our plans. I saw these guidelines on a home-improvement website. I am wondering what people think and whether they apply to a NYC renovation project and to a tiny kitchen such as ours:
-- 40 percent of your overall kitchen budget for cabinetry
-- 30 percent for appliances
-- 10 percent for countertops
-- 10 percent for flooring
-- 10 percent for lighting and plumbing fixtures
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Response by Primer05
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009
kas61,
That could be right but it depends on what you want. Your cabinets could be 5,000 or they could be 50k. Appliances could be 5k or 20k
I have clients that spent 7k on cabinets , 20k on appliances 5k for countertops 1,000 on floor tile. I don't remember what he spent on the other items. I guess my point is it depends on what is of value to you
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Response by KAS61
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 126
Member since: Mar 2012
Well, I think 50K would be our absolute max budget but we are finding it hard to swallow that 28,000 of that would go on labor costs. That's 56%.
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Response by Primer05
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009
Kas61,
Who said the labor would be 28K?
I stated before that the 21,500 for labor seems high.
Labor for a small kitchen could be anywhere from 12-18k depending on what you are doing.
If you want me to take a look at it I would be happy to
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Response by KAS61
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 126
Member since: Mar 2012
See my original post. The 28K includes the projected plumbing and electrical work in the estimate we have. Both have to be carried out by the building-approved contractor and will be billed separately. We took your advice and went to IKEA today and liked what we saw.
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Response by NYCLVING
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 5
Member since: Apr 2013
Thats $1,453 psf. Whoa!
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Response by Primer05
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009
KAS61,
How much is the plumber and electrician charging?
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Response by KAS61
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 126
Member since: Mar 2012
Please see my OP. $3,000 for the electrical work which will involve replacing the fusebox with a circuit breaker and wiring for the new configuration: sockets, lighting etc. $3,500 for the plumbing which involves relocating the sink and installing a dishwasher.
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Response by Primer05
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009
Kas61,
Electric makes sense. Plumber, not close. Should be anywhere from $1,200-1,500.00 not $3,500.00.
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Response by KAS61
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 126
Member since: Mar 2012
Good to know. There is only one building-approved contractor for electrical & plumbing work so they have the monopoly and, I suppose, can charge whatever they see fit. I guess I can feedback to the management company if I think I am being overcharged although I'm not sure how much good it will do.
From what I gathered talking to a GC today, the cost to renovate a kichen is cheaper when it's a part of a larger renovation, compared to when it's just the kitchen.
Kas61,
The 21,500 for labor seems high and the 14,800 seems very low. What kind of appliances are you getting?
I run into this a lot, everyone is one a budget. I would look into going with cabinets that are not custom and then it might be doing for 30K
I just wrote this blog talking about this exact thing
http://primerenovationsnyc.com/2013/04/kitchen-on-a-budget/
I'm just finishing renovating an equally tiny kitchen, almost the same scope of work, and agree that the labor seems a little high, while the 14.8k seems low (my Home Depot cabinets alone were 13k, and appliances (not HD) were 8k (counter-depth refrigerators are expensive!).
Well, based on these responses, I'm thinking we should be looking to reduce the labor costs and not to cut back in the cost of the cabinetry etc.
We had a quote from an architect of a $16,000 flat fee for the design of the space. This seems astronomical given the scope of what needs to be done. This feels like an absolute minefield. Does anyone have any advise as to how we should best approach it and avoid getting ripped off?
My clients usually pay 15-20k for an architect for a complete gut renovation so for a kitchen that seems very high. If you need design and filing then it should be around 10k I would think.
If you want some recommendations you can call me at 646-436-3942 or email me at primerenovations@mac.com
I gut renovated my 9x9' kitchen last year. I did all the planning myself, purchased all the materials myself and my super did all of the work (demo, plumbing, electrical, install of new flooring, sink, dishwasher, cabinets, countertops, painting, lighting etc). The total, including very high end appliances was about a quarter of what you have been quoted. It was a bit more work for me, and took a bit longer than bringing in an outside contractor...but the savings was well worth it.
Primer05: Thanks very much for the offer! We are carefully considering our options before moving forward with our plans. I saw these guidelines on a home-improvement website. I am wondering what people think and whether they apply to a NYC renovation project and to a tiny kitchen such as ours:
-- 40 percent of your overall kitchen budget for cabinetry
-- 30 percent for appliances
-- 10 percent for countertops
-- 10 percent for flooring
-- 10 percent for lighting and plumbing fixtures
kas61,
That could be right but it depends on what you want. Your cabinets could be 5,000 or they could be 50k. Appliances could be 5k or 20k
I have clients that spent 7k on cabinets , 20k on appliances 5k for countertops 1,000 on floor tile. I don't remember what he spent on the other items. I guess my point is it depends on what is of value to you
Well, I think 50K would be our absolute max budget but we are finding it hard to swallow that 28,000 of that would go on labor costs. That's 56%.
Kas61,
Who said the labor would be 28K?
I stated before that the 21,500 for labor seems high.
Labor for a small kitchen could be anywhere from 12-18k depending on what you are doing.
If you want me to take a look at it I would be happy to
See my original post. The 28K includes the projected plumbing and electrical work in the estimate we have. Both have to be carried out by the building-approved contractor and will be billed separately. We took your advice and went to IKEA today and liked what we saw.
Thats $1,453 psf. Whoa!
KAS61,
How much is the plumber and electrician charging?
Please see my OP. $3,000 for the electrical work which will involve replacing the fusebox with a circuit breaker and wiring for the new configuration: sockets, lighting etc. $3,500 for the plumbing which involves relocating the sink and installing a dishwasher.
Kas61,
Electric makes sense. Plumber, not close. Should be anywhere from $1,200-1,500.00 not $3,500.00.
Good to know. There is only one building-approved contractor for electrical & plumbing work so they have the monopoly and, I suppose, can charge whatever they see fit. I guess I can feedback to the management company if I think I am being overcharged although I'm not sure how much good it will do.