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More than the sum of its parts...

Started by nycjcc
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 11
Member since: Apr 2010
Discussion about
We recently closed on a 2BR/2BTH co-op at an excellent price, requiring, however, a gut renovation. Just now an adjacent studio sponsor unit is available at a decent price. While it would involve a good deal of maneuvering and sacrifice, were we to acquire it, the combined units would result in a sumptuous 3BR/3BTH worth substantially more than the two apartments purchased separately. The question is, is it worth the stretch and sacrifice finanicially to acquire the studio, or are we better off dealing with what we already have?
Response by greensdale
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 3804
Member since: Sep 2012

This is a great question to ask in absence of any numbers whatsoever.

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Response by rb345
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 1273
Member since: Jun 2009

nycjcc:

1. why dont you consider doing a straddle
2. buy the studio and rent it out until your financially stronger
3. while desinging your 2-bd so that the studio can eventuaqlly be added to it

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Response by Boss_Tweed
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 287
Member since: Jul 2009

Don't be silly. You are much better off dealing with what you already have.

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Response by bramstar
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 1909
Member since: May 2008

My answer would be absolutely YES! If you can swing purchasing the adjoining unit DO IT. Keep in mind that you could, in theory, negotiate 'sponsor rights' as part of the deal, meaning you could rent out the studio (sans board approval) until such time as you are financially ready to combine the two units. Once you combine/occupy you would lose sponsor rights.

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Response by greensdale
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 3804
Member since: Sep 2012

> Keep in mind that you could, in theory, negotiate 'sponsor rights' as part of the deal,

In theory, huh?

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Response by matsonjones
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 1183
Member since: Feb 2007

The other problem is that many times when adding units together in this manner the aggregate maintenance becomes very expensive...

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Response by w67thstreet
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 9003
Member since: Dec 2008

More better!!!! Buy buy buy re! Leave apple to us professionals.

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Response by rb345
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 1273
Member since: Jun 2009

Matson:

1. I am trying to combine apts with one of my neighbors
2. generally, price/sq.ft. in larger apts is higher than for either of the combined apts

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Response by UES10021
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 33
Member since: May 2012

Your thinking is dead on, there is a big premium for 3 BR's. Of course nobody can give you any real advice without knowing the additional cost for the studio, your renovation budget, and your income/assets. I think you need to ask yourself...

1. How much of an additional financial strain is it? Can I handle this?
2. Do I have any real need for a 3 BR? Is a 2 BR going to be big enough?
3. Does the potential layout make any sense?

Nobody is going to pay the premium for a 3BR with a really awkward layout or with lots of wasted space (awkward hallways). Keep in mind that a combination is probably a much larger project than just renovating an existing 2/2 so you will need to adjust your renovation budget accordingly. Your coop/condo will likely charge additional fees just because you are doing a combination (a few thousand dollars). You will need more out of an architect, and may run into some additional problems when the wall comes down. There may be electrical in the wall that runs to other areas in the apartment. Lighting can be a problem since overhead light fixtures may be inadequate or need to be moved since the intended use of the space is changing (where is the chandelier/dinner table going to go?). Floors may need additional repairs or need to be replaced entirely to match. There is money to be made in combinations, but probably less than your original back of the envelope calculations since the renovations are more complicated and expensive than most people think.

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Response by drdrd
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 1905
Member since: Apr 2007

As mentioned earlier, maintenance on combined units can be considered rather high which may also suppress the asking price on the new/combined unit.

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Response by greensdale
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 3804
Member since: Sep 2012

I agree with drdrd agreeing with the prior poster.

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Response by nyc212
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 484
Member since: Jul 2008

Purchasing two units? If you can afford to, I'd say, "Yes."

As for combining the units...I think the first element to consider, as noted by UES, is the layout. Would it create awkward space, possibly with lots of dead space? Also, as noted by drdrd and others, the combined maintenance would potentially compromise the pricing greatly.

It will also depend on the bldg. and the neighborhood. In bldgs. and/or areas with a lot of those starter apts, 3BR/3BA might be tough to sell. Also, in general, the 2BR/2BA market is far larger than the 3BR/3BA market in Manhattan (assuming that NYCJCC is in Manhattan), I'd imagine.

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Response by rb345
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 1273
Member since: Jun 2009

nyc212:

1. larger apartments are much harder to get
2. so they sell at a large per square foot premium

3. if the two apartments are adjacent you should be able to remove their common wall
4. unless part of it is load bearing

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Response by w67thstreet
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 9003
Member since: Dec 2008

Larger => more value.

There is a point where curves turn to obese.

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Response by w67thstreet
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 9003
Member since: Dec 2008

Honey to I look fat.

With 3% mortgages, you past obese 3 years ago! Doh!

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Response by nycjcc
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 11
Member since: Apr 2010

Thanks to all for your input. Lots to consider. To address some of the questions raised: the combination of units is relatively easy, affording a spacious master suite with bath and generous closet space, a wood burning fireplace, and on the other side a spacious dining area. The maintenance would rise to approximately $4.5K per month, high but not unheard of for a 1700 sf space in a white glove co-op, but a substantial monthly expenditure, nonetheless. Ultimately it will be about whether or not it makes fiscal sense to pull the necessary cash from other sources to fund this endeavor.

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