Chinese buyers flood NYC housing market

Really? This is news?

Nice for CNN to wake up - apparently they've never been to Avenue U!

Apparently dealboy is also just waking up.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/6501-chinese-property-hunters-to-raid-us
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/27828-as-investors-chinese-turn-to-new-york
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/27165-chinese-mount-global-homebuying-spree

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/8222-will-chinese-buyers-save-the-ny-housing-market
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/8495-the-chinese-will-save-us
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/20003-best-chinese-food-on-the-uws

soon, south brooklyn and eastern queens will be known as China. once they start moving in, there's no stopping.

http://youtu.be/kzh0Df42vms

That was started like 30 years ago in South Brooklyn and Flushing. Nothing new.

Alot of money in China is tainted (comes from bribes, corruption etc) Using it to buy NYC property is just an attempt of shielding it from China. This is exactly what you are seeing.

Because NYC was free from bribes and corruption until recently.

wp, did you see the links to prior threads?

No, not yet, but I will later.

Are you possibly telling me that what I was obviously exaggerating about actually happens?!? If so, I VERY much look forward to reading the links. Thanks!

you don't have to read the links, just the list of links

Make that "skinning" eels.

"But there SHE sat..."

oh forget it

:-)

- __
___ _-__ -____ __________l l_
~ ~ / \
\ / /_________________\
( .. ) + $$$$$$$$$$ = l_______________l
=
V

Please disregard; did not format properly.

Is that an eel in your bra or are you just....never mind...

An old lady trying to earn a living selling food near a train station didn't exactly match the profile of corrupted officials with tons of money.

The Chinese money is going to 'BLOW' your mind.
Buy LIC.

We're talking about Chinese nationals purchasing in USA, and yes most of the money is from corruption. Its rampant in China, shielding the assets in USA real estate is a good move if you are caught:
- kids/family studying in USA can retain the asset and over-stay their visa. Never go back to China as the family is in jail

This is so stupid to suggest that most Chinese money is from corruption. It has a massive economy and the shirt you are wearing and chair you are sitting in were probably made in China. A little bit racist to suggest that all Chinese money is ill-gotten? Stop watching Fox news.

Ottawanyc,

This is not a race issue, infact if you ask this question to someone who is Chinese or familiar with China, this is the answer you will get. It is very very very difficult to make large sums of money in China without bribes.

'This is not a race issue, infact if you ask this question to someone who is Chinese or familiar with China, this is the answer you will get. It is very very very difficult to make large sums of money in China without bribes."

No, that is TOTALLY different from saying MOST of the money comes from bribes and corruption. SOME bribes and corruption occurs. But MOST of the money, BY FAR comes from actual goods produced in China, including I would bet, the device you are using to post your racist rants.

Speaking of racist rants, its amazing to me how many people confuse CHINESE IMMIGRANTS, many of whom are citizens of the US, buying property in outer boroughs versus what the TOP article's references.

btw, why do you assume I am not Chinese. I could also tell you about the welfare scams in the poor Chinese immigrant circles in NYC

jason10006
about 19 hours ago
Posts: 5046
Member since: Jan 2009
ignore this person
report abuse
Because NYC was free from bribes and corruption until recently.

Anti-NYCist.

It doesn't really matter if you are Chinese, non Chinese, rich, poor or anywhere in between. If you generalize a subset to the universe, then you are biased.

biased and a biggot.

agree with streakeasy - stop these racist rants please.

The thing is, here's the thing. The thing is ALL of you are racist, biased bigots. That's the thing.

There you go generalizing a subset to the universe.

My only problem is with the corruption at DMV.
Asian drivers from the old country are intolerable.

"If you generalize a subset to the universe, then you are biased."

And by conflating Queens or flatbush immigrant Chinese-American buyers with wealthy Chinese-chinese high-end Manhattan buyers clearly lumps vastly different groups together based on nothing more than ancestry.

"btw, why do you assume I am not Chinese. "

Black people can and do say racist things about other black people. See the current Lt Governor candidate for the GOP in Virginia. And think of all the anti-Semitic things [Jewish] Michael Savage has said. Etc. You think being Chinese inoculates you? Try again.

Please "quote" which part of my statements are "racist". Fact: corruption is rampant in China

I dont care who you are, everyone has a little bias, prejudice or bigotry in them.
Context is always most important.

I can tell you, chinese people care about what's been said on this thread the least.

And when you hear Japanese, Korean, and Chinese feelings about each others' races, it puts most others racism to shame.

Tell me oversensitive members, is it racist to say chinese people all look alike?
You know 20 years ago I was one of the first americans travelling to inland China. Everywhere I went I was asked for my autograph.
Why?
Because I looked like the lead in whatever american movie they saw that month..Charlie Sheen, Tom Cruise, etc.

Does acknowledging certain stereotypes rooted in some truth need to be so completely sanitized?

>Stop watching Fox news
Also from the 90s, the first Gulf War, CNN had the entire country.
Putting TVs by supermarket checkouts, they had the national news market by the balls.
And then a funny thing happened, they went too far left, forgetting that only caters to half the country.
And instead of learning from it they got worse.
Ignoring a story (or stories) doesnt make it go away, and all it did was help create FOX.
When a same story is reported, it's like listening to 2 baseball team announcers giving their perspective of the game, like when switching between the home team announcers and the visitors.
It's quite comical how different the perspectives are.

I don't like FOX anymore than CNN but at least FOX doesnt pretend events didnt happen and ignore coverage altogether.
In my opinion, the biggest sin for a News company.

The average yearly income in china is 10k USD. The "tiny" percentage of Chinese which can afford million dollar condos in USA simply made all their money from hardwork and luck. No the majority of these mega-millionaires exploited rural factory worker with low pay, horrible work conditions and no regard to the environment. In many cases bribes to local officials are required.

bugelrex
Corruption is rampant in this country too, just more sophisticated than in China.

Corruption is rampant among politicians (both parties) here, yes its subtle. In China is out in the open, its expected. In fact the top priority in China now is to crackdown on corruption because its so widespread

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/01/17999875-chinese-officials-embrace-low-key-luxury-to-dodge-corruption-crackdown?lite

It's not subtle, just more sophisticated.
From congress all the way down to the street.

Eddie Murphy's "Distinguished Gentleman" was brilliant at showing the game.

Even slingin' corner boys. You have the boss, you have the lookouts, you have one collecting the money and then another handing off the goods.

"The average yearly income in china is 10k USD" per capita GDP is 6,091 in China, and that's only half to labour. You are mistakenly quoting PPP per capita GDP, which still would be only half ($5,000) to labour. But its nonsensical to use PPP when talking about buying IN NEW YORK. PPP, by definition, assumes LOCAL cost of living - i.e. Chinese cost of living. Buying in NY requires you to use the actual, nominal dollar amount.

And besides, you have failed to prove, show, or even hint at why MOST income to Chinese NYC buyers comes from corruption. The IMF, World Bank, and others actually quantify the black market in various economies, and the Chinese black market is not the majority or even the 5th or 10th biggest part of its economy.

The problem isn't the Chinese. It's the you-know-who.

The retards?

No, not you guys. The you-know-who.

Californians?

Seeing lot of Middle East money as well

Middle East money = probably from OIL.. whoops, racist comment.

Well, it appears I've hit an SE milestone: I've been greyed! (What took so long?!?)

So, please tell me, fellow "GrayEasies": Is this a temporary or permanent "punishment"?!? I'm still not sure whether to laugh or really be upset.

Thanks!

Congrats.

Thanks...greed & hidden...how DO you cope?!?

But seriously, though - on what basis is the decision to do so made?

If it's for offensive content, I've seen far worse by other posters who are still in full, unhidden type.

Is there a "Just for Posters" product that returns is to our former unhidden typeset glory?!?

I think I'm gonna cry......:(

Sorry - make that "greyed" & hidden...

Who is not grey and has been more offensive?

What neighborhood is this in?

Alanhart: LOL - Priceless!

Huntersburg: I'd rather not say; let's not make things worse!

Let's make things worse -- NAME NAMES! (no race-o)

How about ZIP Code under which the person posts regardless if he lives there?

Alanhart & Greensdale: Please...I'm upset as it is (don't laugh - I really am) ...what I REALLY think would be interesting is hearing from all the Greys the reason(s) they were relegated to 2nd class StreetEasy status (or at least why they THINK they were).

Alanhart: Please forgive me - as you've had some of the best barbs / comments on the board (well to me, anyway, if that counts for anything;) - but come on now - I'm sure you, as well as Greensdale, can figure out who they are - that is, if you don't know already ;)

Truth: If you're out there watching, it's been great chatting with you as well - & I always looked forward to doing so (& that's the "truth" - LOL!). but if I've been "downgreyded", if you will, well, then I get the message loud & clear. Enough already. Apparently SE has had enough of me & come t think if its vice - versa.

In light of this, therefore, this will be my final post, & you can rest assured I have no intention whatsoever to return under a new screen name / handle. Yes, it really does bother me that, in light of some content from other posters, I've been greyed & they havent. Perhaps they're already in the SE crosshairs..who knows...who cares, really...whatever...

It's been great chatting with EVERYBODY. A great Summer to all!!!

Walpurgisly Yours,
@Walrus ( that's for YOU, MIBNYC :)

Alanhart & Greensdale: Please...I'm upset as it is (don't laugh - I really am) ...what I REALLY think would be interesting is hearing from all the Greys the reason(s) they were relegated to 2nd class StreetEasy status (or at least why they THINK they were).

Alanhart: Please forgive me - as you've had some of the best barbs / comments on the board (well to me, anyway, if that counts for anything;) - but come on now - I'm sure you, as well as Greensdale, can figure out who they are - that is, if you don't know already ;)

Truth: If you're out there watching, it's been great chatting with you as well - & I always looked forward to doing so (& that's the "truth" - LOL!). but if I've been "downgreyded", if you will, well, then I get the message loud & clear. Enough already. Apparently SE has had enough of me & come t think if its vice - versa.

In light of this, therefore, this will be my final post, & you can rest assured I have no intention whatsoever to return under a new screen name / handle. Yes, it really does bother me that, in light of some content from other posters, I've been greyed & they havent. Perhaps they're already in the SE crosshairs..who knows...who cares, really...whatever...

It's been great chatting with EVERYBODY. A great Summer to all!!!

Walpurgisly Yours,
@Walrus ( that's for YOU, MIBNYC :)

Purgie, haven't you figured out that SE greys people when they want to triple (or better) the posting productivity of that person? That's a fact, jack. And they know what they're doing -- it works!

I was grayed when I professed my love for collecting NASCAR trading cards, if that helps you understand what can trigger it. For you, it was the unkosher mixing of non-jellied eels and brassieres -- pure 100% trayf.

Walpurgis, right after you said you were posting your final post, you reposted the same post. Take that as a sign.
Once upon a time, there was a woman with a high earning husband who lived in an apartment for which she expected a government subsidy (no, she didn't live in a shoe, she redid the kitchen in fact), who said farewell, only to reappear as another name, and then eventually again as herself and finally to collect a big windfall from a lawsuit while other people's rent went up as a result. I'm happy to have her here, I like diversity of opinion, unlike yikes who seems to scold people who criticize Michael Vick while himself insulting elementary school teachers.

You're "happy to have her" there? More than a little disturbing. Let her go, please, before you get in BIG trouble.

here, not there

Given that:

- The People's Republic of China recognizes 56 ethnic groups in the country
- bugelrex was specific in referring to only those with Chinese nationality

It seems ignorant to be calling bugelrex racist. Perhaps xenophobic or some other term would be appropriate. But confounding a nationality with race in order to call someone racist? Something about glass houses...

It isn't even xenophobia. The comments were about a political and economic system of a country. You could call that research or academia.

inonada - please, you cannot be serious. When bugelrex was writing, he, like 99.9999999999999999999999% of Americans was equating Han Chinese with Chinese. Which, BTW, 99.999999999999999999% of humans on Earth outside of China, and in fact 99.9999999% of Han Chinese in China also do. Because China is 92% ethnic Han.

He was DEFINITELY not talking about Turkic, Mongolian, or Tibeten peoples.

I like calling Jason a retard, because that can span all ethnicities and nationalities.

Bugel, the issue is that you said that chinese buying in NY are using money that was obtained through illicit activity and they are coming over here in part to avoid being "caught." Why that sucks is that imagine if you are some Chinese dude who just bought here and everyone then gives that knowing nod that clearly they can only afford to buy in NY because they did something illegal and are trying to shield their ill-gotten profits. Sorry, but this is a dumb thing to say and really unfair to these people who in large part probably want to come here to enjoy the rule of law.

So when we all sing the Blame Canada song, is that racist against Canadians?

Give it up. Unnecessarily and excessively pointing the finger of racism does no favors to anyone.

Don't forget them Russians. It's just a commie/former commie free-for-all! The empire state building will be painted red!!!

"because that can span all ethnicities and nationalities"

... but it used to be believed that Jason, et alia, all look Mongolian. So there's that.

walpurgis:
There's nothing to be upset about.
Being "greyed" on the streeteasy discussion comment boards will not affect your real life.

It was early evening on the Sunday of the Thanksgiving weekend, two years ago.
HB. and I were the only people posting comments on streeteasy, just chatting with each other.
Then along came columbiacounty trolling my comments, as usual. (columbiacounty had already been in the grey zone, well before I ever posted a comment on streeteasy.) I ignored him as usual and HB. and I went on another discussion thread to continue our chat.

columbiacounty then trolled us on that discussion thread.
Since there was nobody else commenting on streeteasy, I gave cloumbiacounty the opportunity to
post a comment declaring whatever his purpose was in trolling me on streeteasy ( since the posting of my first comment and his unabated trolling of me literally for years) while I just ignored him.

columbiacounty had nothing of substance to say to me. He had the chance but gave no reason for his trolling of me. Evidently he just wanted to try to insult me and be disruptive.
So he chased me around the streeteasy discussion threads while HB and I were just chatting.
I thought we could wear columbiacounty out and take him down to sleepy town. He didn't get tired enough to stop trolling so I wished HB "Goodnight" and logged-off, around 8pm.
Next day, I was greyed.

You know the rest of the story, walpurgis. You (and other readers) have witnessed it here on streeteasy discussion threads for years:
Many days, weeks and months go by while I'm not commenting on streeteasy. As soon as I return to post a comment (not directed to columbiacounty or the other trolls) the trolls are here within minutes to post comments and troll me.

Streeteasy has advised me to just ignore them. That's what I was doing with columbiacounty yet it didn't cause him to stop trolling me.
Ignoring the drunken trolls is Streeteasy's most recent advice to me.
Since they are drunk-posting, trolling is just a way for them to pass their empty days and nights.
I had always ignored columbiacounty's trolling, from the first comments I posted on streeteasy.
I now ignore the drunken trolls.

Se readers won't confuse you of being one of the drunken trolls just because you're in the grey zone.
Your real life won't be affected.
Streeteasy realized (far too late) that they had provided a place for the drunken trolls to meet potential trolling targets, at those Streeteasy "Get-Togethers". They sponsored the "Get-Togethers" and provided free drinks to the alkies. The alkies attended those "Get-Togethers" and learned the real names and identities of formerly anonymous streeteasy comment posters.

Now Streeteasy won't admit their mistake nor will they correct it. They paved the way for abusive, drunken trolls to post disruptive comments on streeteasy discussion boards. That's the reason why Streeteasy discussion boards are the cyberspace watering-hole for abusive, disruptive alkies.

Oh, the humanity!

What a load of bullshit, "truth."

And we have the printouts to prove it. With time stamps. It's almost like you are looking to provoke a fight. That bored?

Really, streeteasy won't admit their mistake in allowing people with serious mental issues to continue to post.

What it amounts to is that that sewer-lady is hinting at legal action against StreetEasy. For hosting a party, which apparently caused three years of ensuing drunkenness. In others. Allegedly.

Oh, the humanity! ... and all the passengers!

And the ship is listing. In the wrong direction. Oh, the humanity, indeed.

From the OP article: "Four states accounted for 58% of all foreign sales. Florida had 23%, California 17% and Arizona and Texas 9% each. New York, an international business center and immigration gateway, and Virginia, close to the Washington corridors of power, both came in at 3%."

Why ONLY 3% of the all foreign sales went to New York? That's pretty tiny compared to the top four, especially considering NY being a 'international business center and immigration gateway'. The answer to this question is what I find most interesting.

Fla., Ariz. & Tex. are foothold states for the middle-class of perenially unstable Latin America. Calif. same thing, for Asians. Proximity is the main driver. Fla. and Ariz. are popular winter havens for subjects of the Queen of Canada, and a surprising smattering of other nationals around the world, particularly The Europe.

But what does that have to do with trUth the sewer threatening legal action against StreetEasy?

I'm offended. After the recent Toronto floods, this is unfair to Canadians to talk about another nationality flooding a market.

alanhart, I agree that proximity accounts for a majority of the difference, especially in previous decades. However, even if half of the foreign sales in NY went to the Chinese, where did the 16.5% (18% - 1.5%) of the Chinese foreign sale went? The article mentioned that more than half of the CA foreign sales went to the Chinese, but even if 10% Chinese foreign sales went to CA, 18% - 1.5%(NY) - 10%(CA) = 6.5%. That means only 1.5% went to NY, while 6.5% went to somewhere other than CA or NY. Even if you increase the CA number to 13%, 3.5%(other) vs. 1.5%(NY) is still interesting...

If proximity is used to explain where the Chinese buyers went, that would suggest that they prefer CA over NY 6 to 1 or more. I don't have the numbers, but I highly doubt that CA has 6 times more Chinese Americans than NY.

Bottom line, the data seems to suggest that the recent Chinese buyers are not that interested in NY compared to other places in this country.

OMG stop confusing Chinese people who are foreign with Americans who are of Chinese decent and this NOT foriegn!!!!

>> inonada - please, you cannot be serious. When bugelrex was writing, he, like 99.9999999999999999999999% of Americans was equating Han Chinese with Chinese. Which, BTW, 99.999999999999999999% of humans on Earth outside of China, and in fact 99.9999999% of Han Chinese in China also do. Because China is 92% ethnic Han.

You are not getting my comment. By saying "Chinese national", bugelrex implicated an entire nation, not an entire race. Within that nation, there are 100 million people who are not Han. Furthermore, Chinese nationals represent a small minority of Chinese ethnicity buyers in NYC: most NYC buyers of Chinese ethnicity are Chinese-American. He clearly delineated them from his pronouncements.

China is a country with significantly higher degrees of corruption than the US according to various studies. While attributing a characteristic to an entire nation based on average behavior is wrong, so is calling it racist. A racist person would have incriminated all the Chinese-American buyers too. He engaged in a different form of the behavior since he was delineating based on nationality, not race.

BTW, with the number of 9's you used, it amount to saying that there are zero Americans who consider "Chinese national" to mean solely Han Chinese. Since I am an American who thought otherwise, you clearly used too many 9's.

Ditto for "humans outside China".

Within China, you implied exactly 1 person with the number of 9's used. While I grant a certain level (OK, high) degree of head-up-assedness to the entire human race, something tells me that between the 1B Han Chinese and 100M non-Han Chinese, at least a few more might realize that the term "Chinese national" might refer to more than just Han.

Jason, I understand that the stats from the article did not include Chinese Americans. However, most Chinese Americans were naturalized or have parents or grandparents who were. They were "foreign" at some point. I was making a point that proximity could not explain where the Chinese were going. Jobs, schools, and family ties were the main drivers for them, not proximity. The current batch suggests that "investment" might have become another factor in where they are going given that there are mini Chinatowns outside of CA and NY.

Califonia is way more Asian than NYC. Way.

Reminds me of the Japanese buying up NYC back in the 80s. How did that turned out for them ? Bot at the top, sold at the bottom :)

Census says CA is 13.6% Asian descent. NYS 7.3%. But Chinese specifically - both 3%. So it must be eh geographic proximity to Asia more than cultural ties.

Thought they were forced to sell Pebble Beach Rock Center to ne just a few

Not to be feeding the fire, but it is extremely unlucky to buy any apartment with the number "4" in it. Amazingly, a lot of apartments in the city that are still available are with a "4". Coincidence?

Are the 8s all sold?

Hmmmm but I forgot that CA's population is more than all NYS, New England, and A few counties of NJ combined. So 3% is 2X as many in absolute terms.

Sounds like California has room for one more.

Anti-Asian racism in Calufornia: http://www.bohemian.com/northbay/blogs/Post?basename=ktvu-reports-asiana-pilots-named-sum-ting-wong-ho-lee-fuk&day=12&id=BohoBlog&month=07&year=2013

KTVU Reports Asiana Pilots Named "Sum Ting Wong," "Ho Lee Fuk"

Posted by Gabe Meline on Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 12:54 PM

Today, KTVU News announced the names of the pilots on Asiana Flight 214, provided to them, apparently, by a 12 year-old boy, and vetted by nobody.

KTVU announces pilots' names
Yeah—we didn't think "Sum Ting Wong," "Wi Tu Lo," "Ho Lee Fuk" and "Bang Ding Ow" were real names either.

For your cringeworthy moment of the day, here's video footage of KTVU's reporter reading the names out loud on live television.

It didn't take too long for KTVU to issue a correction and apologize.

Jason, thanks for the numbers. So historically, 2X as many Chinese went to CA vs. NY, yet the stats from the OP article is showing 6X or more chose CA vs. NY in the past year. What changed? Don't think plate techtonic is the answer. :) Also, 2X-4X chose somewhere else (other than CA) over NY in the past year, compared to less than 1X of NY a decade ago.

Nothing changed. Peasant immigrants 100 years ago or more sought work in the populated East. The emerging upper middle and up classes in China are buying investment/vacation homes in places that (although still a very long plane ride) are more convenient.

Plus they like the cold and damp climate that Calif. has to offer. I, along with countless singers, hate it for the same reason -- it's cold and it's damp.

> it's cold and it's damp.

Racist.

http://www.deadline.com/2013/07/reports-asiana-airlines-to-sue-ktvu-over-racist-newscast-gaffe/

>Reminds me of the Japanese buying up NYC back in the 80s. How did that turned out for them ? Bot at the top, sold at the bottom :)

Actually the racist thing at that time about those sensational news headlines was that the Brits owned double what the Japanese did.

Sum Ting Wong and Wi Tu Lo are a quite funny play on language crossover nuances.
Calling it racism is silly and a poor attempt to deflect the issue that their senior pilot who should have been on top of junior pilot's landing F'ed up, not to mention the poor girl who survives a crash plane landing getting run over by the emergency vehicle, a scene worthy of a corny "Final Destination" moment.

>Sum Ting Wong and Wi Tu Lo are a quite funny play on language crossover nuances.

Perhaps they didn't have Clearance or check the Vector first. Maybe one of them thought they already landed and it was Over.

OMG, I'm an anti-American racist.